5x1 definition challenge
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This forum is for discussing how to do Greek composition and practicing writing in Greek.
If you post in this forum, you are inviting people to critique what you have written and suggest ways to improve it.
Private subforums can be created for groups who want to practice together without exposing their mistakes to the world, or this can be done in public.
Re: 5x1 definition challenge
There is so much to respond to, and I am on my phone! I will try to be thorough but concise. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone do like I am doing or have done, I was just letting you know how I have formed my definitions heretofore. I never wanted to foist my expectations on anyone else. There have been several times when I would've gone outside of my self imposed bounds had I not checked my composition against the frequency list. I have added enough words from (mainly) Plato to my vocabulary now that I can no longer be sure that the words I am most familiar with are the ones that occur ten times or more in the New Testament. It is a new and happy problem.
I can say with confidence that I am fine with or without the glosses; I haven't had difficulty reading what either of you have written, though I don't always read it (as in Thomas's last effort) the same way as it was intended. The upside to the glosses is that they may make the endeavor more inviting. I am imagining a situation where someone might want to participate but looks at what the participants have written and, being unable to translate it quickly, thinks the endeavor is too advanced to join. I am trying to be sensitive to this concern.
Glosses are helpful, for sure, but the tradeoff is time. I know from the Xenophon thread, and the ones like it, how time consuming it is to make those aids. I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make. Ultimately, this exercise is for the benefit of the participants, not the onlookers.
I can say with confidence that I am fine with or without the glosses; I haven't had difficulty reading what either of you have written, though I don't always read it (as in Thomas's last effort) the same way as it was intended. The upside to the glosses is that they may make the endeavor more inviting. I am imagining a situation where someone might want to participate but looks at what the participants have written and, being unable to translate it quickly, thinks the endeavor is too advanced to join. I am trying to be sensitive to this concern.
Glosses are helpful, for sure, but the tradeoff is time. I know from the Xenophon thread, and the ones like it, how time consuming it is to make those aids. I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make. Ultimately, this exercise is for the benefit of the participants, not the onlookers.
Ἀσπάζομαι μὲν καὶ φιλῶ, πείσομαι δὲ μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν.-Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους 29δ
Re: 5x1 definition challenge
I can only add a long-retired pedagogue's "Amen!" to this. This forum is about as far from an ideal venue for tutorial work of this nature as one can conceive; in decades past, I used to do this regularly in my office with one or two students, where questions and answers can be exchanged within moments and the time/learning ratio is ideal and ordinarily the exercise is immensely beneficial to the student; here minutes or hours intervene between each step in what ought to be a congenial face-to-face tutorial session in real time.Wes Wood wrote:There is so much to respond to, and I am on my phone! I will try to be thorough but concise. I didn't mean to suggest that everyone do like I am doing or have done, I was just letting you know how I have formed my definitions heretofore. I never wanted to foist my expectations on anyone else. There have been several times when I would've gone outside of my self imposed bounds had I not checked my composition against the frequency list. I have added enough words from (mainly) Plato to my vocabulary now that I can no longer be sure that the words I am most familiar with are the ones that occur ten times or more in the New Testament. It is a new and happy problem.
I can say with confidence that I am fine with or without the glosses; I haven't had difficulty reading what either of you have written, though I don't always read it (as in Thomas's last effort) the same way as it was intended. The upside to the glosses is that they may make the endeavor more inviting. I am imagining a situation where someone might want to participate but looks at what the participants have written and, being unable to translate it quickly, thinks the endeavor is too advanced to join. I am trying to be sensitive to this concern.
Glosses are helpful, for sure, but the tradeoff is time. I know from the Xenophon thread, and the ones like it, how time consuming it is to make those aids. I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make. Ultimately, this exercise is for the benefit of the participants, not the onlookers.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
Well, I'm still developing my ideas.Wes Wood wrote:I intend to stay my course, but fully support whatever decisions you make.
Attempting to exclude English from the footnotes, and trying to lead all roads back to the ten times mark, opens a weeks worth of cans of worms in a single post. If footnotes were to be limited to using Greek, then perhaps they themselves would have to be explained in another layer of footnotes to the footnotes. The result is something like lasagne. Compare this to a single word gloss:Stephen Hughes wrote:Personally, I prefer the last one where the English is confined to the footnotes.English definitions of words given, but confined to footnotes wrote:ὑπερβάλλων - ὁ ὑπερβαίνων¹ ὃ θεωρεῖται² κανωνικόν³.
Ὑποσημειώσεις (Footnotes)
¹ὑπερβαίνειν - to go over, to exceed, ²θεωρεῖσθαι - to be considered, ³κανωνικός - regular)
- ὄνος - τετράποδον ὑποζύγιον ὁμοιάζον ἵππῳ, ἔχον μεγάλην κεφαλὴν καὶ μεγάλα ὠτία.
Ὑποσημειώσεις.
τετράποδος - ἔχων τέσσαρας πόδας, ὑποζύγιον ζῷον - ζῷον ἐφ' ὃ ἐπικεῖται (ἐπιτιθέασιν) ζυγὸν (ἐπὶ τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ), ζυγός - ξυλίνη κατασκευὴ προσηρμοσμένη τῷ τραχήλῳ ζῴων εἰς τὸ ζεῦξαι αὐτὰ τῷ ἀρότρῳ, προσαρμόζειν - συνδέειν τι τινί, τράχηλος - τὸ τμῆμα τοῦ σώματος ἑνοῦν τὴν κεφαλὴν τῷ θώρακι (κορμῷ), ὠτίον - τὸ ἔξω πτερύγιον τοῦ αἰσθητηρίου (ὀργάνου) τῆς ἀκοῆς, τὰ αἰσθητήρια - τὰ ὄργανα τῆς αἰσθήσεως.
Ὑποσημειώσεις.
ὑποζύγιον ζῷον - "beast of burden, beast for the yoke", ζυγός - "yoke", προσαρμόζειν - "fit", τράχηλος - "neck", ὠτίον - "ear", τὰ αἰσθητήρια - "sense organs".
- ὄνος - ass
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
πένθος, ους, τό (5),Stephen Hughes wrote:Please compose definitions that you find adequate to explain, define the meanings of the words occurring five (5) times in the New Testament.
Emiliano Caruso wrote:πένθος, ους, τό = λύπη, κραυγή, κώκυμα, οἰμωγή. ≠ χαρά, γέλως.
Liddel, Scott and Konstantinidis wrote:πένθος, εος, τό, θλῖψις, λύπη...δυστύχημα, ἀτύχημα, κακὴ τύχη τινός, δυστυχία, ἀθλιότης...(τύπος παράλληλος τῇ λέξει πάθος, ὡς τὸ βένθος τῇ λέξει βάθος.)
Homer, Iliad 1:254 wrote:μέγα πένθος Ἀχαιΐδα γαῖαν ἱκάνει.
εἰ κακόν τι γίγνεται, πένθος ὑπάρχει. εἰ δὲ πένθος ἔχω, κλαίω καὶ οὐ μειδῶ. ἐκ μὲν Διαβόλου πένθος γίγνεται. ὁ δὲ Θεὸς πᾶν πένθος παύσει.Gaza's Paraphrase, Iliad 1:254 wrote:μεγάλη λύπη τὴν Ἑλληνίδα γῆν καταλαμβάνει.
Rev 18:7b wrote:ὅτι ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ αὐτῆς λέγει ὅτι Κάθημαι βασίλισσα, καὶ χήρα οὐκ εἰμί, καὶ πένθος οὐ μὴ ἴδω:
ἐν τούτῳ τῷ κόσμῳ, ὁ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ δοῦλος πένθος ὄψεται. ἀλλ' ἐν τῷ ἐρχομένῳ, πένθος οὐκ ἔσται.Rev 21:1b wrote:καὶ ὁ θάνατος οὐκ ἔσται ἔτι, οὔτε πένθος οὔτε κραυγὴ οὔτε πόνος οὐκ ἔσται ἔτι:
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
for Stephen's post above: 'like'
for Mark's post above: 'like'
for Mark's post above: 'like'
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
I love the idea of this thread, however, ultimately I agree:
{Greek}{English gloss}
{Example sentences}
I found that even as a beginner, If a quick search in Accordance for example sentences using that word resulted in discovery of comprehensible sentences, that word would stick without needing flash cards at all. The problem is, that task is time consuming and often fruitless. I wonder if a collection of sample sentences measured against beginner vocabulary would be quite valuable.
Continuing with this theme, however, I wonder if it would not be much more beneficial for a project that produces beginner level example sentences to help solidify the understanding. i.e.
{Greek}{English gloss}
{Example sentences}
I found that even as a beginner, If a quick search in Accordance for example sentences using that word resulted in discovery of comprehensible sentences, that word would stick without needing flash cards at all. The problem is, that task is time consuming and often fruitless. I wonder if a collection of sample sentences measured against beginner vocabulary would be quite valuable.
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
I wonder if that's what beginning textbooks do?Jacob Rhoden wrote: ↑June 1st, 2018, 1:12 am
Continuing with this theme, however, I wonder if it would not be much more beneficial for a project that produces beginner level example sentences to help solidify the understanding. i.e.
{Greek}{English gloss}
{Example sentences}
I found that even as a beginner, If a quick search in Accordance for example sentences using that word resulted in discovery of comprehensible sentences, that word would stick without needing flash cards at all. The problem is, that task is time consuming and often fruitless. I wonder if a collection of sample sentences measured against beginner vocabulary would be quite valuable.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
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Re: 5x1 definition challenge
My memory of first year Greek was a weekly list of words, and associated practice exercises that used words that I was not yet familiar with. So the practice sentences were not really “Greek reading” exercises, but more “dictionary lookup” exercises.
Is there a textbook that provides example sentences for each vocabulary word that is fully comprehensible for the student in the Greek?
Is there a textbook that provides example sentences for each vocabulary word that is fully comprehensible for the student in the Greek?
Re: 5x1 definition challenge
Randall Buth has "400 friends", "Λέξεις 400" -- I have a Greek one from the John audio package, but I think they might be included with the textbooks as well, possibly?Jacob Rhoden wrote: ↑June 2nd, 2018, 11:27 pm Is there a textbook that provides example sentences for each vocabulary word that is fully comprehensible for the student in the Greek?
The format is close to what you describe, covering down to about 35 occurrences:
Randall Buth, 'Λέξεις 400', 2009 wrote:2 ἀγάπη, ἡ (116) love γν ἀγάπης
ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν
1Jn 4:16 God is love
ἡ ἀγάπη τῷ πλησίον κακὸν ούκ ἐργάζεται
Rm 13:10 love does not do evil to the neighbor
Re: 5x1 definition challenge
Back to the original topic, though:
ὀλιγόπιστος (οὐσιαστικό): ὀ μικρήν πίστιν ἔχειν
ἀρετή (οὐσιαστικό): τι ἄνθρωπος ἔχων, ὤστε λέγομεν περί αὐτού λέγων Αὐτος μεγας και δίκαιος ἐστίν
(Please pardon and/or correct my many errors; I am very new at this.)
ὀλιγόπιστος (οὐσιαστικό): ὀ μικρήν πίστιν ἔχειν
ἀρετή (οὐσιαστικό): τι ἄνθρωπος ἔχων, ὤστε λέγομεν περί αὐτού λέγων Αὐτος μεγας και δίκαιος ἐστίν
(Please pardon and/or correct my many errors; I am very new at this.)