"With" (the English word) has quite a broad range of meanings. I suppose you already know, but let me say a few things with food in my mouth - spitting out little bits of half-chewed substance in random directions - anyway; as a general rule of thumb, every different meaning in the (English) dictionary has a different meaning in the Greek. With a word as flexible as a preposition, there are probably a few ways to take each one. "Translation" often becomes a matter, "whereas we would say ...". That sounds like guessing, and it is. The more educated the guess(er), the less likely that we are to make an grave error. Avoiding small misunderstandings is very, very difficult with prepositions. They seems small and benign, but actually, they require a certain skill set to handle.S Walch wrote:When I first read the passage cited, my initial reaction was reading προς as meaning "with", of which one can only really recall John 1:1 immediately after thinking such - I don't believe there's a more famous passage where προς means "with" than that. That was about as close as the parallel got.Stephen Hughes wrote:You'll need to walk me through the stream here, I can't see a way to make the leap at this point of crossing. I considered that as a parallel, but couldn't find a clear sense of reference or directionaloty after getting to the level of abstraction.S Walch wrote:Reading it, I would think it parallels John 1:1 more than anything (with regards to the meaning of προς),
Are "sit with", "walk with", "work with (a person)" and "work with (a tool) all the same with? If we understood "with" as something like "at the same time or in the same space as" then they are. If, however, we concentrate on things from other points of view, then they are not. Other languages look at things from different points of view, with the result that those 4 may have different prepositions in Greek. There may even be different prepositions in Greek, for the same thing in English, here is an example for "sit with":
Matthew 26:55 wrote:Ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ὥρᾳ εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς τοῖς ὄχλοις, Ὡς ἐπὶ λῃστὴν ἐξήλθετε μετὰ μαχαιρῶν καὶ ξύλων συλλαβεῖν με; Καθ’ ἡμέραν πρὸς ὑμᾶς ἐκαθεζόμην διδάσκων ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ, καὶ οὐκ ἐκρατήσατέ με.
Going beyond the equivalances in English is one of the fruits of learning Greek. In this case, I assume, that the πρός was used for the sense of "with" in your John 1:1 to avoid a connotation that μετά may have had, or to stress the meaning of orientation towards (face-to-faceness) that could have been expressed. Whether that is correct or not, discussing it in terms of the Greek makes more sense than discussing it by look at other instances of "with" in the English. It is an accident of language that English uses "with" for both. Whether we believe that accidents of languages like the well-known κύριος convergence are the hand of God revealong truth in history, or whether we think that random accidents of language like how people might now take "let your conversation be..." has allowed religious thought to evolve in response to external stimulii, are part of the meta-dialogue that can sometimes accompany discussions of Greek.Revelations 3:20 wrote:Ὁ νικῶν, δώσω αὐτῷ καθίσαι μετ’ ἐμοῦ ἐν τῷ θρόνῳ μου, ὡς κἀγὼ ἐνίκησα, καὶ ἐκάθισα μετὰ τοῦ πατρός μου ἐν τῷ θρόνῳ αὐτοῦ.