Wes Wood wrote:For my part, I wouldn't mind to work through Xenophon and then transition to Euripides.
Carl's comment to me two days after we started this was
cwconrad in a PM wrote:I think, ... that you've underestimated the dimensions of this work of Xenophon's -- it's actually a lot longer than the Lysias speech.
Xenophon's
Estate Manager is what we have read already, squared. There are totally 21 chapters in this work.
Look at the adverbs of the duration and frequency of time that seem to regularly accompany διαλέγεσθαι. The longest mentioned is "three months" and "every day" also sits quite well too.
Acts 19:9 wrote:Εἰσελθὼν δὲ εἰς τὴν συναγωγὴν ἐπαρρησιάζετο, ἐπὶ μῆνας τρεῖς διαλεγόμενος καὶ πείθων τὰ περὶ τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ.
Acts 19:9 wrote:ἀποστὰς ἀπ’ αὐτῶν ἀφώρισεν τοὺς μαθητάς, καθ’ ἡμέραν διαλεγόμενος ἐν τῇ σχολῇ Τυράννου τινός.
Acts 20:9 wrote:διαλεγομένου τοῦ Παύλου ἐπὶ πλεῖον
If we "work through Xenophon" then the length and style of this type of "reasoned with them" references are going to have a real (first-hand
experience) meaning for you, both from the point of view of the style and method, and also the length of it.
Another interesting comment that Carl made about this work is
cwconrad wrote:I think ... also that it's a lot easier, relatively speaking, than the Lysias speech.
In fact, the first few chapters of coming to terms with a new authour is always the most difficult, and after that things begin to go downhill (in the good sense of that phrase).
He (or rarely
she as in the case of Sappho) uses different turns of phrase than we have been used to before and his own basic set of vocabulary. I've read whatever prescription of Xenophon's
Anabasis that was set for beginning students in my University and later a little besides, but even so this
Estate Manager is "new" to me in the sense that it is the same authour using his skills for a different purpose, for a different audience and therefore writing in a different style.
The Anabasis (by far the most read of Xenophon's works) was a descriptive narrative of a military campaign, which had a readily recognisable flow to it, while the Estate Manager that we are reading relies for its coherence on the development of an argument about what constitutes a good steward. Getting to a point where you are "at home" in the domain of discourse of the Socratic dialogue will, in itself, be a major undertaking and an achievement, considering that you are doing it in a second language (not the language of your previous education). The obvious advantage that that affords us is that we are a little closer to understanding the Hellenistic world that is often mentioned, but rarely explained with any degree of satisfaction. Xenophon's writings were part of the heritage that was embraced across Alexander's conquered territories, and this form of dialogue that you are reading was one of the ways used to convey ideas in that milieu. In itself, that makes this work valuable. In addition to that, we are able to come a little closer to understanding what was taking place in the New Testament passages where "reasoning" with people is mentioned - leading to a better ratio of
real understanding : imagination, when we read those passages.
From the descriptions I have read, Arrian, whom I quoted earlier in the post, was a truly versatile writer, composing in three dialects of Greek - the Koine, Attic proper and Ionian. (That quote is in Attic).
What I can't give you in all this, because I have only a smattering of it myself, is a formal understanding of the rhetorical devices that are being employed here. I have an "adequate" understanding of the Greek in most places, but what would be even better would be an understanding of the way that the language is being used within the constraints of this form of discourse that reading the text gives us exposure to. My fair to middling appreciation of the text also lacks the exactitude of a logician's grammatical insight. Despite the fact that the full light of the days brilliance has not yet arrived, that doesn't stop us from pottering about with the text as we forage for a few tidbits to tide us over till our eyes become less dim (or we increase the font size).
If we were to "transition to Euripides" later, that would to some small degree be similar a standard introductory level Greek reading course prescription. You, of course, are approaching the texts from a different level of understanding. As with any attempt to gain a skill, the only way is
hands on practice. It seems far away, but with some practice, you'll be able to prepare "hints" in 15 or 20 minutes, rather than 2 or 3 days per section.
Wes Wood wrote:Sorry for the early post. My daughter decided it was good enough as it was.
Cuteness +1