ἀληθής

The forum for those who still struggle with morphology, syntax, and idiom, or who wish to discuss basic questions about the meaning of Greek texts, syntax, or words.
Forum rules
This is not a place for students to ask for the answers to their homework assignments. Users who do that may be banned.
Stephen Hughes
Posts: 3323
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am

Synonyms and related words

Post by Stephen Hughes »

What I see is one Greek word being discussed with so many English words. That is only a beginning. In fact as you read more widely and learn some the language, you will find a breadth of synonymity comparable to English.

If you knew more Greek words most of this discussion would be meaningless. There are Greek words similar to "credible", "admissible" and what ever other English words you are bringing up. Some of them have been discussed by various participants. In another place bringing up so many words involves some kudos. Here is shows you lack Greek words to do the same. There is no shame in that - everyone is encouraging you to learn more and improve.

As a beginner of course you couldn't be expected to know them, so they are not being introduced. You are being told the limits of the word you are trying to learn. When you reach an upper-intermediate compentency in Greek that will be both meaningful and managable for you. For now stick to your one-word definitions.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
Jonathan Robie
Posts: 4159
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Contact:

Re: ἀληθής

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Mike Burke wrote:The footnotes to the New American Translation say that the word can also mean "valid, or admissible," and that fits the context (but doesn't seem to be listed in either Lexicon.)

And it doesn't really say, anywhere in the Old Testament, that the testimony of two men "is true."

(Is some kind of Greek idiom being used here?)
Good question.

Barry gave you the definition from BDAG here. It gives the gloss "dependable" when ἀληθής is used together with μαρτυρία, and lists the following examples:
Dependable μαρτυρία (PHal 1, 227 ἀληθῆ μαρτυρεῖν; Jos., Ant. 4, 219 μαρτυρία) J 5:31f; 8:13f, 17; 21:24; 3J 12; Tit 1:13.
Note that your verse, John 8:17, is one of the verses mentioned here. BDAG thought that was the basic meaning in this verse. I wish there were a freely available lexicon as good as BDAG, there really isn't.

Also note that the lexicon discusses explicitly what ἀληθής means when used to describe μαρτυρία, and that it can have a different meaning than when used outside of that context. I don't think "dependable" is generally a good translation of ἀληθής, but I do think it is when used with μαρτυρία.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Mike Burke
Posts: 72
Joined: February 7th, 2014, 8:07 am

Re: ἀληθής

Post by Mike Burke »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Mike Burke wrote:The footnotes to the New American Translation say that the word can also mean "valid, or admissible," and that fits the context (but doesn't seem to be listed in either Lexicon.)

And it doesn't really say, anywhere in the Old Testament, that the testimony of two men "is true."

(Is some kind of Greek idiom being used here?)
Good question.

Barry gave you the definition from BDAG here. It gives the gloss "dependable" when ἀληθής is used together with μαρτυρία, and lists the following examples:
Dependable μαρτυρία (PHal 1, 227 ἀληθῆ μαρτυρεῖν; Jos., Ant. 4, 219 μαρτυρία) J 5:31f; 8:13f, 17; 21:24; 3J 12; Tit 1:13.
Note that your verse, John 8:17, is one of the verses mentioned here. BDAG thought that was the basic meaning in this verse. I wish there were a freely available lexicon as good as BDAG, there really isn't.

Also note that the lexicon discusses explicitly what ἀληθής means when used to describe μαρτυρία, and that it can have a different meaning than when used outside of that context. I don't think "dependable" is generally a good translation of ἀληθής, but I do think it is when used with μαρτυρία.
Thank you.
Post Reply

Return to “Beginners Forum”