Galatians 4:4

[Jonathan Robie]

I understand this is a beginner's forum, and I certainly meet that criterion. However, I undertake the exercise to better grasp the meaning and in the case of Galatians (or any New Testament text), I think it is fair to say the nuances of composition should not (cannot?) be divorced from theology. Therefore, overlooking the compositional choices to arrive at an understanding which is devoid of theology, is either impossible or ignores the very reason the writer created the document.

But without a solid grasp on the Greek language, you aren't in a position to understand the compositional choices at all. And this is a Greek forum, not a theology forum, so when I ask you what you are doing to learn Greek, I'm really asking whether this is a forum for you.

We're starting at a very basic level here - can you actually read the Greek sentences? I had the impression that you did not realize these were two different words until I pointed that out to you, you didn't mention that in what you wrote. I don't think you understand the Greek middle yet. There's no shame in being a beginner, but a beginner is not yet ready to be an expert.

The last thing we want to become is a place for people who do not know Greek to discuss theology, throwing in a Greek word here and there. The Internet is full of that kind of thing, we don't want it here. We read these texts because they matter to us, but we also read them in Greek, with attention to the language. Many of us are deeply interested in theology - but in theology rooted in a careful understanding of the Greek text.

However, failing to consider the text further because it can be understood from a literary or linguistic perspective is, in my opinion, a beginner's mistake.

To me, it feels like you are using theology as your guide to the Greek language. I don't think that works. Which is why I asked you what you are doing to learn the language.

[Stephen Carlson]

I don’t think anyone here has claimed avoiding redundancy as a motivation. Is there some other interlocutor you have in mind, and is that person competent in Greek?

[Devenios Doulenios]

Hi David,

Welcome to B-Greek! It’s good to have new members, and I hope that your time here benefits you.

We really do encourage you to pursue learning Greek here. And there are plenty of people here who can and will help you, if that is your desire.

I certainly understand and can sympathize with your desire to come to the Greek NT with theological questions. One of my first motivations in learning Koine was to help me understand and appreciate answers to such questions.

Over time, however, I came to realize that I really needed to learn the language to achieve much in that area and be sure of my conclusions.

The problem is, if you do so interacting with the Greek text without truly knowing Greek, you are likely to go astray, despite the best of intentions. It would be like someone who aspires to be a musician who gives concerts, yet is tone deaf and cannot read music. Such concerts would be a waste of time and money, and a waste of effort by the aspiring musician. He or she has accomplished little or nothing because he/she has neither the ability or the training necessary. Motivation alone cannot overcome those deficiencies.

That’s not to say you can’t, with help and effort, gain some theological or devotional insights without mastering the language at a high level. That, however, should not, in my view, be your initial goal.

Your initial goal should be to learn Greek as a real language, interacting with it and using it as actively as possible. There are lots of resources for this, and you’ll find many of them here on B-Greek. There are also many helpful, patient people who will give you good advice and help on the language if you ask. There is no such thing as a dumb question if you truly are stuck and want to learn.

Master your basic vocabulary, starting with the NT, master the nuts and bolts of grammar and sentence structure, work on pronunciation and listening comprehension, speak and write Greek, and when you feel ready, read, read, read! It’s hard work, yes, but well worth it!

None of these thoughts are meant in any way to discourage you, but to help you see more clearly what the forum is for, and how it can serve you.

Best wishes,

Dewayne Dulaney
Δεβένιος Δουλένιος

[Shirley Rollinson]

I have two questions about Galatians 4:4:

ὅτε δὲ ἦλθεν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ χρόνου ἐξαπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ γενόμενον ἐκ γυναικός γενόμενον ὑπὸ νόμον

The verse has 4 aorist verbs. The first two are indicative the second two (γενόμενον is repeated) are participle. What is the significance of the change? Someone explained the participle as "was born/having been born in middle voice; whose subject is "The Son"; that is, it was Jesus who birthed Himself (grammatically speaking)." Is that correct?

While that sounds odd, it would explain why Paul chose to describe Jesus' being born of a woman using γινώσκω rather than γεννάω (4:23, 24, 29). If this is not so, what other reason would Paul have to describe Jesus being born of a woman using γινώσκω but Ishamel being born to Hagar using γεννάω?

Whoever gave you that explanation went at it in a rather complicated way. It sounds as if you have not had much experience with Greek grammar, and maybe not with English grammar either. Think of the participles as being "-ing words", ie γενόμενον as "being", "happening, "having been", "having happened", and by extension "having arrived/come/appeared" - there is not really a sexual connotation with γενόμενον, so to say someone "birthed himself" would be a mis-translation.
However, γεννάω is definitely sexual = "I beget" - usually indicating the male part of procreation. Gal.4:23 might be (wooden-literal translation) expressed as "But the one has been begotten according to the flesh, out of the servant-girl, the other through the promise, out of the free-woman." ie sexual intercourse was involved in both cases. If referring to the female action one would probably use τικτω (I bear, give birth to). I doubt that the concept of "giving birth to oneself" or "birthing oneself" would apply. We are dealing with literature which was grounded in a pastoralist society - the vocabulary is down-to-earth and derives from the breeding of sheep and goats.
γινώσκω means "I know/understand" and is not the verb used in Gal.4:23