Why ἡμᾶς in 2 Thess 1:4

[Sam]

ὥστε ⸂αὐτοὺς ἡμᾶς⸃ ἐν ὑμῖν ⸀ἐγκαυχᾶσθαι ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις τοῦ θεοῦ ὑπὲρ τῆς ὑπομονῆς ὑμῶν καὶ πίστεως ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς διωγμοῖς ὑμῶν καὶ ταῖς θλίψεσιν αἷς ἀνέχεσθε,

In 2 Thessalonians 1:4 above, is ἡμᾶς the subject? If so, why is it in the accusative and not in the nominative, i.e. ἡμεῖς?

[Jonathan Robie]

ὥστε ⸂αὐτοὺς ἡμᾶς⸃ ἐν ὑμῖν ⸀ἐγκαυχᾶσθαι ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις τοῦ θεοῦ ὑπὲρ τῆς ὑπομονῆς ὑμῶν καὶ πίστεως ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς διωγμοῖς ὑμῶν καὶ ταῖς θλίψεσιν αἷς ἀνέχεσθε,

In 2 Thessalonians 1:4 above, is ἡμᾶς the subject? If so, why is it in the accusative and not in the nominative, i.e. ἡμεῖς?

Good question - precisely the kind of question that helps you learn.

As I read it, αὐτοὺς ἡμᾶς is the subject of ἐγκαυχᾶσθαι. But ἐγκαυχᾶσθαι is an infinitive, and when an infinitive expresses a subject, it generally does so in the accusative. This is sometimes called "subject accusative of the infinitive." Do you have a useful Greek grammar? This is probably covered in the chapter on infinitives and also under accusative.

As a verb, the Infinitive has voice and tense, though it does not distinguish person or number; it may take a subject in the accusative, and an object (accusative, genitive, or dative), like the rest of the verb to which it belongs.

Consider the verb and its subject in John 3:7:

δεῖ ὑμᾶς γεννηθῆναι ἄνωθεν

[Jonathan Robie]

FWIW, this is a reasonably complex clause. Perhaps breaking it down as follows helps?

s = subject
v = verb
+ = adjunct

ὥστε
s αὐτοὺς ἡμᾶς
+ ἐν ὑμῖν
v ἐνκαυχᾶσθαι
+ ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις τοῦ Θεοῦ
+ ὑπὲρ τῆς ὑπομονῆς ὑμῶν καὶ πίστεως ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς διωγμοῖς ὑμῶν καὶ ταῖς θλίψεσιν

+ αἷς
v ἀνέχεσθε

[Sam]

Thank you very much for the answer as well as the encouragement.

Yes, I do have both Mounce's and Wallace's grammars. I did find a discussion in Wallace's under that precise heading - Accusative Subject of the Infinitive. I was easier to understand looking up a subject I'm currently dealing with, as opposed to simply reading the book. Though I did become curious, what do older grammars mean by 'accusative of respect'?

Additionally, this does expose how little I understand what an infinite is supposed to be. Knowing that ἐνκαυχᾶσθαι is an infinitive, in my mind I would translate it as "so that we ourselves, to boast in you...". I understand we have to make the English make sense, but what is the nuance offered by the verb being an infinitive, as compared to simply using ἐγκαυχωμεθα? Compare that to John 3:7 where I could see how the infinitive makes sense, as it could be translated as "it is necessary for you to be born again". Could it be that ἐγκαυχωμεθα is the ἔνδειγμα that verse 5 is referring to, making it necessary for the verb be in the infinitive?

[Jonathan Robie]

Additionally, this does expose how little I understand what an infinite is supposed to be.

Aha! You are a person who can recognize what it is that he doesn't yet understand and set that as a goal. That's good.

Knowing that ἐνκαυχᾶσθαι is an infinitive, in my mind I would translate it as "so that we ourselves, to boast in you...". I understand we have to make the English make sense, but what is the nuance offered by the verb being an infinitive, as compared to simply using ἐγκαυχωμεθα? Compare that to John 3:7 where I could see how the infinitive makes sense, as it could be translated as "it is necessary for you to be born again". Could it be that ἐγκαυχωμεθα is the ἔνδειγμα that verse 5 is referring to, making it necessary for the verb be in the infinitive?

Well, this will take some time to grasp. Greek is different from English. Greek infinitives are not defined by their translation into English, so it's important to learn, over time, to understand them in Greek first.

I suggest you read this to get an overview of uses of the infinitive:

http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/project/f ... on-57.html

But for now, let's oversimplify. Swimming is an infinitive in English. I can't just say "I swimming", that's not grammatical. I can do that with finite verbs - "I swim", "I swam", but not with infinitives. English lets me use an auxiliary verb to express the subject of swimming - "I am swimming". Greek lets you do that with an accusative. Or sometimes with a dative. But the accusative and dative are also used for the direct and indirect objects of an infinitive verb the same way they are for finite verbs, so an accusative can signal either the subject of an infinitive or an object.

FWIW, I often use "v.inf" to mark an infinitive, distinguishing it from a finite verb:

s = subject
v = verb
v.inf = infinitive
v.part = participle
+ = adjunct

ὥστε
s αὐτοὺς ἡμᾶς
+ ἐν ὑμῖν
v.inf ἐνκαυχᾶσθαι
+ ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις τοῦ Θεοῦ
+ ὑπὲρ τῆς ὑπομονῆς ὑμῶν καὶ πίστεως ἐν πᾶσιν τοῖς διωγμοῖς ὑμῶν καὶ ταῖς θλίψεσιν

+ αἷς
v ἀνέχεσθε

In general, I think it's helpful to assume that translations understand the text, so if you can't find translations that agree with your current understanding, it's' likely that your understanding needs help and it's time to ask a question.

[Jonathan Robie]

Though I did become curious, what do older grammars mean by 'accusative of respect'?

Not just older grammars. Let me quote an older grammar and a brand new one. Here's Smyth:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ction%3D91

ACCUSATIVE OF RESPECT
[*] 1600. To verbs denoting a state, and to adjectives, an accusative may be added to denote a thing in respect to which the verb or adjective is limited.

a. The accusative usually expresses a local relation or the instrument. The word restricted by the accusative usually denotes like or similar to, good or better, bad or worse, a physical or a mental quality, or an emotion.

[*] 1601. The accusative of respect is employed

a. Of the parts of the body: ““ὁ ἄνθρωπος τὸν δάκτυλον ἀλγεῖ” the man has a pain in his finger” P. R. 462d, ““τυφλὸς τά τ᾽ ὦτα τόν τε νοῦν τά τ᾽ ὄμματ᾽ εἶ” blind art thou in ears, and mind, and eyes” S. O. T. 371, πόδας ὠκὺς Ἀχιλλεύς Hom.

N.—The accusative of the part in apposition to the whole (985) belongs here, as is seen by the passive. Cp. ““τὸν πλῆξ᾽ αὐχένα” him he smote on the neck” Λ 240 (βάλε θοῦρον Ἄρηα κατ᾽ αὐχένα Φ 406) with βέβληαι κενεῶνα thou art smitten in the abdomen E 284.

b. Of qualities and attributes (nature, form, size, name, birth, number, etc.): ““διαφέρει γυνὴ ἀνδρὸς τὴν φύσιν” woman differs from man in nature” P. R. 453b, ““οὐδὲ ἔοικεν θνητὰ_ς ἀ_θανάτῃσι δέμας καὶ εἶδος ἐρίζειν” nor is it seemly that mortal women should rival the immortals in form and appearance” ε 213, ποταμός, Κύδνος ὄνομα, εὖρος δύο πλέθρων a river, Cydnus by name, two plethra in width X. A. 1.2.23 (so with ὕψος, βάθος, μέγεθος), πλῆθος ὡς δισχί_λιοι about two thousand in number 4. 2. 2, ““λέξον ὅστις εἶ γένος” tell me of what race thou art” E. Bacch. 460.

c. Of the sphere in general: ““δεινοὶ μάχην” terrible in battle” A. Pers. 27, ““γένεσθε τὴν διάνοιαν” transfer yourselves in thought” Aes. 3.153, ““τὸ μὲν ἐπ᾽ ἐμοὶ οἴχομαι, τὸ δ᾽ ἐπὶ σοὶ σέσωσμαι” so far as I myself was concerned I was lost, but through you am saved” X. C. 5.4.11. Often of indefinite relations: ““πάντα κακός” base in all things” S. O. T. 1421, ““ταῦτα ἀγαθὸς ἕκαστος ἡμῶν, ἅπερ σοφός, ἃ δὲ ἀμαθής, ταῦτα δὲ κακός” each one of us is good in matters in which he is skilled, but bad in those in which he is ignorant” P. Lach. 194d.

Here's the brand spanking new Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek - one of the clearest and most precise grammars, I think.

30.14 With active and middle verbs which do not take an object, with passive verbs, and with adjectives, an accusative of respect or limitation may be added to specify to which particular element the action or adjective applies (‘as concerns ...’, ‘with respect to’): ἀλγεῖ τοὺς πόδας his feet hurt (lit. ‘he has a pain with respect to his feet’) (21) διαφέρει γυνὴ ἀνδρὸς τὴν φύσιν. (Pl. Resp. 453b) Man and woman differ by nature. (22) τρίτον δὲ σχῆμα πολιτείας οὐχ ἡ τοῦ πλήθους ἀρχή, δημοκρατία τοὔνομα κληθεῖσα; (Pl. Plt. 291d) Isn’t the third form of government the rule of the many, called ‘democracy’ by name? τοὔνομα = τὸ ὄνομα, with crasis, →1.43–5. The accusative of respect is also used with nouns, especially in measurements: ποταμὸς εὖρος δύο πλέθρων a river two plethra wide (lit. ‘in width’)

van Emde Boas, Evert; Rijksbaron, Albert; Huitink, Luuk; de Bakker, Mathieu. The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek (p. 365). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.

[Sam]

Well, this will take some time to grasp. Greek is different from English. Greek infinitives are not defined by their translation into English, so it's important to learn, over time, to understand them in Greek first.

I guess that is really the way to go - to understand Greek without ever translating it into English. I try to do that in my daily readings, especially when I listen to Greek, since there usually isn't enough time to translate.

Thank you for the resources. These will take time to digest, and also reminded me that I should purchase Matthew DeMoss's Pocket Dictionary.

But for now, let's oversimplify. Swimming is an infinitive in English. I can't just say "I swimming", that's not grammatical. I can do that with finite verbs - "I swim", "I swam", but not with infinitives. English lets me use an auxiliary verb to express the subject of swimming - "I am swimming". Greek lets you do that with an accusative. Or sometimes with a dative. But the accusative and dative are also used for the direct and indirect objects of an infinitive verb the same way they are for finite verbs, so an accusative can signal either the subject of an infinitive or an object.

This is helpful. I will watch out for these accusative subjects of infinitives as I tackle 2 Thesssalonians and hopefully get familiar with how they're used. I never noticed the pattern in the epistles of John, though the resource you provided did say they are used least by John.

[Devenios Doulenios]

Actually, "swimming" in English is a gerund or participle. "To swim" is the infinitive, also given as "swim". (My inner English teacher peeks out sometimes; I was one once, as well as a Spanish and Latin teacher.)

Good explanation otherwise, though.

[Jonathan Robie]

Actually, "swimming" in English is a gerund or participle. "To swim" is the infinitive, also given as "swim". (My inner English teacher peeks out sometimes; I was one once, as well as a Spanish and Latin teacher.)

Good explanation otherwise, though.

Yeah, I to rework that explanation ;->