Re: [compost_tea] Re: Some people!

From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:49:14 -0800

It is my understanding that anyone who states that pathogenic bacteria are =
"removed" by oxidation is misstating a basic fact of microbiology. Bacteri=
a (including e coli) don't really die unless they are digested (eaten by ot=
her bacteria which can occur under certain conditions). Fecal coloforms do=
 not grow (multiply) in water. Add O2 and you make a very unattractive env=
ironment for them. They do go to "sleep" or become inactive if they do not=
 have beneficial conditions but they do not grow in competition with aerobe=
s. Fecal coloforms require anaerobic conditions to grow.

Does using compost containing animal and human fecal coloforms in the brewi=
ng process transfer the E. Coli during the brewing and subsequent distribut=
ion process? Yes. However, there are not a lot of them to begin with in m=
ost compost because the composting process basically deemphasizes anerobes =
over functional aerobes.

Similar also is the brewing process. Brewing does not kill or remove E. Co=
li (or other harmful pathogens) but does promote the growth of beneficial b=
acteria. As the aerobes grow, they outcompete the pathogens for available =
food sources. Remember also, that it is a basic tenet of microbiology that=
 these harmful bacteria do not grow in water. (Smith, Alice Loriaine A.B.,=
 M.D., F.C.A.P., F.C.A.P., Principles of Microbiology, Eighth edition, The =
C. V. Mosby Company, Saint Louis, 1977, pp 773. -- see page 654.). Howeve=
r, these bacteria can be transferred by water and if they find a beneficial=
 environment, will repopulate.

Now, Earth-Wise has composted human biosolids and noticed the pathogen regr=
owth when water was added to composted biosolids that were roughly 30-40% m=
oisture by volume. The composting process was finished and water was added=
. In other words, the compost tested N.D. for pathogens but spiked when H2=
0 was added. It is to be noted that the spike was still below EPA standard=
s and below Canadian (British Columbia) standards for pathogens but it was =
still a spike. We successfully controlled these spikes by the application =
of bacterial compost tea. Subsequent testing showed the spikes in pathogen=
 growth could be controlled by compost tea.

Back to the basic question: Does aerated compost tea grow pathogens? No.=
  Are pathogens present in compost tea? Yes if they are in the compost. Ar=
e E. Coli present in all soil? Yes, according to microbiologists but they =
do not grow unless an anaerobic envirnoment is created for them and they ha=
ve food.

It basically comes down to environment. Let your tea get anaerobic -- for =
example, letting it sit to promote fungal growth -- pathogens will multiply=
. Use it within 17-24 hours and your chances of spreading pathogens are di=
rectly propotional to the amount in your compost.

Ted Peterson
Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Kirk Leonard
  To: Compost Tea Group
  Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:55 PM
  Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Some people!


  BTW, this is exactly where USNOP wants to bury ALL compost teas. Brinton=
 is
  a major player on the Compost Tea Task Force. USDA have clearly shown a
  strong will NOT to approve compost teas among organic practices by their
  behavior over the past two years, despite centuries of safe use (ala the
  "European methods") and even better, emerging ACT methods. And make no
  mistake, NO kinds of compost tea or organic preps - none - are currently
  supported by USNOP, even though there are ZERO reports of any harm ever
  actually being done by any of them. USDA really, really don't want compo=
st
  teas allowed in organic ag, though some certifiers are approving anyway. =
 If
  USDA/NOP succeeds in getting genuine crap like this adopted you can bet
  they'll come back and whack certifiers ASAP, with all the force of the US
  federal government. Big Time OUCH, hmm?

> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:46:01 -0500
> From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
> Subject: Some people!
>
> Woods End scientists completed a compost tea study which suggests that
  forced aeration of the tea has no significant effect on longevity or
  survival of potentially pathogenic E. coli present in compost teas. The
  project tested commercial tea extraction equipment and compared to Europe=
an
  methods in which there is only intermittent stirring. "Since E. coli is
  capable of aerobic growth, it will multiply in the presence of foodstuffs
  and oxygen, contrary to what popular literature on compost teas suggests"=
,
  said the reports authors. When E.coli was spiked into aerated teas, it
  continued to persist past the term of extraction, the research shows.
  "European methods without aeration performed as well as aerated" said Dr.
  Brinton. According to Woods End, "a real danger may exist in the use of
  immature composts plus added sugars or nutrients, since this provides ide=
al
  conditions for growth of potentially pathogenic facultative organisms". W=
hen
  used according to instructions and with composts provided with purchased
  extraction kits, the commercial technology teas produced were safe,
  according to Woods End. "What we are saying is users should not be misled=
 to
  think aeration alone prevents growth of potential pathogens- it will not
  especially in the case of E.coli." said Brinton. The report is presently
  being reviewed by the Compost Tea Task Force under the NOSB. Brinton's La=
b
  and the USDA Microbiology Lab in Beltsville have undertaken a second seri=
es
  of joint-research projects in an attempt verify these preliminary finding=
s.
  <

  And you can also bet they will verify... These are the same two players w=
ho
  caused compost tea to become "not eligible to satisfy" USNOP soil fertili=
ty
  standards last year based on two stupid lab experiments, and sent it into
  the perpetual "delay or death" spiral where it's now stuck. They mean to
  put a stop to compost tea if they possibly can, believe me.

  What to do? Call USDA, email them, whatever, let them know your are payi=
ng
  attention. (last I knew, head of USNOP was Richard Matthews,
  richard.mathews_at_usda.gov and his boss was Barbara Robinson,
  barbara.robinson_at_usda.gov.) Why is compost tea being subjected to such
  delays in the absence of any reported real world harm? (NB: problems can=
 be
  created in labs, which is exactly what is and has been exploited here...)
  Why is an ancient, safe organic practice not being supported? Call or ema=
il
  your congressperson, especially if they're on the House Organic Caucus (l=
ist
  in
  CT archives, 7/4/02). Ask the same thing. Tell them your real world
  experience is different. Ask them to get on USDA's case, find out what's
  happening. Email Owusu Bandele, chair of the NOSB Crops Committee, under
  which the Compost Tea Task Force operates (obandele_at_subr.edu), or the
  co-chairs of the task force, Eric Sideman (esideman_at_mofga.org) and Dennis
  Holbrook (dennis_at_tiagris.com). If you are not in US, please ask your
  government to ask US gov what the heck they are doing and why it's so goo=
fy,
  eh?

  USDA and Brinton are doing the bidding of the Monsanto's and Dows of the
  world here, apparently, not what's best for organic practices or the plan=
et.
  WE have to ask questions to set things straight. Please speak up. A few=
 of
  us peppering them can make a difference because USDA is basically hiding
  behind these nefarious moves. A little sunshine is needed. Thanks Doc E
  for the info.

  -- Kirk

  PS: Brinton accuses Ingham of same lack of data, btw, but Doc E has given=
 us
  data-based guidelines. What were DO levels? (Was there enough air?) Ho=
w
  much ecoli spiking? (What kind of ecoli? Most are not harmful.) What
  temps? What nutrients and levels? Brinton cites "immature composts" - w=
hat
  about good composts? (gonzo-bozo.. that alone is cause for this "research=
"
  invalidation, and this guy invented maturity tests for compost...!?) Man=
y
  more questions are possible, but it's clear USDA and Brinton are using
  generic ecoli, poor compost, poor ACT practices, and poor research as rus=
es
  to suppress all compost teas - simple as that - truly pushing a molehill
  into a mountain, and using "science" for propaganda. Ga-ga gunga
  garbage-ganda. Weak but effective when you have the privilege and power =
of
  US gov behind you, I guess... Perhaps we should use the acronym FACT
  instead of AACT (as in "forced aeration"?:-).
















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Received on Wed Nov 12 2003 - 22:33:48 EST

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