[compost_tea] Re: Tilling is sometimes necessary!

From: hi_yield1 <hi_yield1_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 09:38:25 -0000

David,
If you are looking to grow prairie grass or a lawn then I guess
tilling is a waste of time. However if you are trying to cultivate a
piece of land year after year like Oliver is somewhere in Arizona
that's not gonna work. He probably gets all of his moisture in the
spring, waterlogging the clay soil. Then it gets hot and the soil
dries out turning to cement. Maybe infrequent long waterings are not
an option where he lives? Some western states are having a real water
shortage these days?? Flocculating the clay soils( cation exchange )is
part of the solution but in some cases you would have to add far to
much Calcium screwing everything else up. If you were to keep adding
layer after layer of sawdust down then yes in 10 years you probably
would have a nice raised bed. What have you changed below the saw
dust? Remember Oliver is growing a garden,food stuff. Most of the
plants are shallow rooted, lots of surface feeder roots, and he
replants each year. Has anyone ever gone to the garden store and
bought a bag of cement to start your seedlings and grow your plants
in? NO! Sometimes the soils PHYSCIAL PROPERTIES have to be changed
manually! Correct particle sizing creates drainage. The do nothing( no
till ) approach and super sauce is not always gonna work?? Life is
about regeneration, so what if a few hundred thousand microbes die
when you till. After your seedlings have come up ,MULCH. That's gonna
allow the microbes to thrive once again and the shallow feeder roots
to thrive as well. Not everyone has acres and acres of land to choose
just the rigth spot for a garden. Some have to turn a sows ear into a
silk purse and the sooner the better, not 10 years down the road.
Don't Pulverize just Incorporate. Take care Hi_Yield1.



--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Hall" <dchall8_at_t...> wrote:
> From what I've seen on the gardening discussion boards over the
past
> few years, tilling is not necessary under any of the circumstances
> I've seen mentioned on this board. After discussing the various
> theories and methods with both amateurs and professionals in the
> turf care business, the consolidated wisdom of the recent ages
comes
> down to four basic techniques. The super compaction and soggy
areas
> are almost universally cleared up by [in order of importance] a
> combination of [1] deep infrequent watering (maybe starting with a
> black soaker hose left on trickle for a few weeks); [2] mowing
grass
> as high as possible (or even letting grass grow for months without
> mowing); [3] protein-based organic fertilizer and/or organic top
> dressing (prolonged use of sawdust is particularly good); and [4]
> the total cessation of insecticide, fungicide, and herbicide.
>
> What you are trying to accomplish with these methods is to deepen
> your plant roots below any hardpan you might have developed from
> previous poor watering habits. Not coincidentally, these methods
> favor proper microbial growth at each "zone" under the surface.
> Deep roots cannot grow unless and until the moisture is deep. So
> deep infrequent watering is paramount to softening the soil. Tall
> grass supports deep roots by sending more carbs to the roots. When
> you continually clip the grass off short, the roots develop near
the
> surface only. One method used by grass farming livestock graziers
> to develop their pastures' organic material is to deep cycle their
> grass. They will grow it very long (maybe 4 feet tall or more) and
> then cut it very short (4 inches or less). What this does is
> essentially pump roots several feet into the soil and then kill off
> the deepest roots. This leaves the dead roots to provide "organic
> matter" feed for the microbes at all soil depths to munch on. And
> the idea of using sawdust to soften the soil will rankle some
> folks. Doesn't everyone know that sawdust lasts forever and
> will "remove" nitrogen from the soil? Well, not everyone knows
> that. When sawdust is used as a topdressing only and not tilled
in,
> it cannot remove nitrogen from the soil. What apparently happens
> instead is the fungi that decompose sawdust become extremely adept
> at decomposing sawdust and it starts to disappear more quickly year
> after year. One writer reported that after 10 years of sawdust, he
> could plunge his arms up to his elbows into his formerly ceramic
> quality clay.
>
> The wise people of the Internet have mentioned the following
> problems with tilling. Some have been mentioned elsewhere on this
> list. Tilling...
> 1. Pulverizes the soil aggregate structure caused by beneficial
> microbial glues leaving a fluffy mineral dust which the bacteria
> must start over with to reform a structure.
> 2. Eliminates the earthworm tunnels which provide air and water
> deep into the soil.
> 3. Eliminates fungal hyphal tunnels which provide air and water
> deeper into the soil.
> 4. Shreds fungal hyphae killing them off.
> 5. Brings the bottom dwelling microbes to the surface to die.
> 6. Sends the top dwelling microbes to the bottom to die.
> 7. Blows carbon dioxide out of the soil and temporarily replaces
it
> with oxygen.
>
> So what's happening with a soggy low lying area? Likely as not all
> the fungi have been killed off due to the anaerobic conditions
> caused by standing water. Tilling in compost would seem to solve
> the problem but it doesn't for reasons 1, 5, 6, and 7 above. A
> suggested repair would be to first eliminate the low lying area by
> leveling (if it is in the middle of an otherwise flat area). If
the
> low lying area is in a naturally rolling area, then flattening is
> not a good idea. Instead the selection of deep rooting plants or
> water loving plants is more appropriate. Usually the plants that
> work would be called weeds, but if you use them right, they can
look
> pretty nice. Some of the clovers make better weed choices than
some
> other weed choices. Clovers at least can be contained. If you
want
> really deep roots, try alfalfa for a few years. Alfalfa has been
> reported to send roots into coal mines a hundred feet underground.
> In any case, compost should be top dressed (not tilled) in
> appropriate amounts.
>
> David Hall
> San Antonio, TX
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "hi_yield1" <hi_yield1_at_y...>
> wrote:
> > Good point Chris,
> > Oliver, if you are trying to garden in a low lying area and you
> have
> > little if any drainage either down or away from where your
> planting.
> > You need to till deep enough(adding coarser material) to break
> through
> > or deep enough to keep the root zone out of the watertable. I
think
> > both adding enough organic matter to create a raised bed and
> tilling
> > in would work best. Take care
> > Hi_Yield1.
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, chris reid <reidchris_at_e...>
> wrote:
> > > Oliver,
> > >
> > > Does the lay of the land have any effect on how much water is in
> > your clay
> > > soil? In other words, when it rains, is all the rain pooling in
> > one low
> > > spot or what?
> > >
> > > Also, if you want to get a soil test, maybe you can get one from
> > Colorado
> > > since Nevada doesn't offer this service. CSU does homeowner
soil
> > tests.
> > > There is a charge, but I don't know what it is. You can contact
> > the lab
> > > manager -- see the link below:
> > >
> > > http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/SoilCrop/service.html
> > >
> > > A description of how to take a soil sample is included below:
> > >
> > > http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/SoilCrop/Soilsub.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris Reid
> > >
> > > -


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Received on Thu Dec 04 2003 - 12:40:00 EST

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