Re: [compost_tea] Compost Tea Mud/Sludge

From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:02:36 -0800 (PST)

Anthony - you have very impressive DO2 plots. I have never seen any so clearly made.
Tell me what instrument you are using ?.

As for the data. We made some runs with 1 hour and longer. The 1 hour proved to have less, much less, bio content than brews at 2 hours and longer.
 
Two clues to my 2 to 6 hour conclusion:
1) It takes some time for water and not too gentle "percolation" to soften the bacterial slime that holds bacterial and fungi in place. Only after this softeninig period would 'percolation' activity of the water separate the microbess from the course compost materials.
2) About 80 to 90% of the compost volume becomes desireable suspended matter in the ACT after 2 to 6 hours of 'percolation'. And this is not in a bag where percolation is reduced by the bag. This is in an extraction chamber where the compost is subject to direct violent action of a torrent of rising mixed size bubbles. Bubbles that actually pump approx a hundred gallons of water thru the extraction chamber every minute.
 
Sludge on the bottom? That is the heavy fines that contain many of the microbes attached to what was compost particles. If left there veery long, yes they will stink. It is vital to get air and circulation to move all that into suspension. that is why I recomend movein our air from the extractor to the bottom of the container early in the cycle. There are other ways to do this that add some cost.
 
Looking at your curves. Where the bag was left in the microbe content of your ACT was high enough to use more O2 than you had available. ( Microbes IN the bag also use DO2) Your ACT went severely anarobic for several hours. After the food was gone and the microbes died, ate each other, became dormant, DO2 use went low enough to re-establish higher DO2 levels. This would be "excellent" ACT if your O2 system was able to induce maybe three times as much air ? .
 
Your second curve where you took the bag out had few enough microbes so your air system was able to keep D O2 ahead of microbe demand. This may be the better tea in this case only because it didn't run out of O2. Probably "In good range".
 
The other would have had many times the bacteria, fungi and protozoa if it had had enough O2 to meet demand. Would have tested "Excellent".
 
Yes your plants may like either ACT. I'm convincrd plants are even more friendly than dogs. They wag, nod, blossom, bear, taste good if we give em any chance
 
Do I know all about this stuff? Nope. Still learning. Bob
Anthony <boofq_at_wn.com.au> wrote:
Bob- you say 'Extraction is 95% completed in the first 2 to 6 hours'. Do you have data on this as I beg to differ. I am of the persuasion that provided the movement within the extraction bag/container is suffice, most of the extraction of organisms and nutrients will occur well before the hour is up and more than likely within the first few minutes. As soon as the greasy humus feel has gone from the compost that went in to the brew, all the critters are in solution doing their thing and the bag can be removed. Sludge, left for along period of time is bound to harbor anaerobes. Attached, I have two DO curves for two separate brews, both with the same recipe, almost same temp, the only difference was the bag was left in the brewing vessel for at least 10 hrs, the other had the bag taken out at about the 45min mark. I know which curve I like!. And no I didnt have each one tested, but both smelled good after the brew had finished and after an overnight siesta in a jar with the li
 d on.
 I'd put money on the one that went to zero just ended up with high bacteria and low or no fungi. I still put it on my plants and they didnt seems to mind.
If there is enough energy moving thru the chamber, the organisms are going to set sail early on in the piece and multiply and continue to multiply and grow until all the food has gone. My bag holds inxs of 12kgs of compost and I know even though the solution in the brewer is rolling around like a ten foot swell, the center of that bag is seeing very little of it.(when its not being agitated). So why not take it out!
It is very hard to draw a conclusion from this info as there is just too many variables to deal with. Was the compost the same?was the tank cleaned properly?does a difference of 3 degrees C mean that much?did moon opp Saturn have an effect? Who knows, but it makes you think about it doesnt it!
cheers
AQ
 
 
 
 
-You have to look at what you see
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Norsen
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Compost Tea Mud/Sludge


Sbould I tell you this on List or off? It applies to all Bob' brewers and from what I gather it may apply to many others and some home builts. So I will let all who don't want to read it hit Delete, NOW!!
 The "Chamber" is really and extraction chamber. It is somewnat like a basket but much more active, drawing water in, exerting very active extraction and then pumping the water out. It is intended to act as an extractor for part of the cycle. Extraction is 95% completed in the first 2 to 6 hours. Time depends on the "solubility" of the compost. After that the water flowing in thru the screen and out thru the screen, tends to collect fungi fiber both in and out. .For that reason I advise removing the extractor chamber early in the cycle, return the aeration probe to the bottom of the container, off to one side so the rising bubbles will create circulation across the bottom, up and around and down. .The aeration prob needs a weight to stay at the bottom. I have begun to add a weight in the form of a 8" x 3/8" iron rod inside the aeration tube. Some find clamping a weight to the outside is more convenien t.
 
In tests run early in developement, SFI found this sludge was very rich in fungi. By keeping it suspended in rapidly circulationg, well aerated water, the fungi thrive. Next trick is to not have such course particulates that they plug the application system.
 
 Filter? The ACT? Rather not filter. Filters take out long slender fungi that lay across the filter bars even if they would go thru the nozzle. Rather let the ACT settle for 5 minutes quietly. The really heavy "rocks" will fall out rapidly. Then take the ACT off an inch above the bottom of the container. Use course nozzles, apply in rather large droplets. The bottom 1" of ACT ? Put it on your favorite plant with a bucket - or let it inoculate the next brew if you are going to go again. ( Don't dump chlorinated water on it.) or mix it into your compost. It may be the best part of each brew.
 
About your question in your former message, Judi, Would ACT be a good dormant spray? Applied in the fall and on warm winter days, like it will be tomorrow in your area, 50+ F , would the bacteria and fungi be effective - eating the mite ( eggs?) and other hazards waiting on your trees? Do any of your members have the "spirit" to apply ACT this time of the year to find out? Maybe on just some fo their trees? Both Sat. and Sunday are supposed to be warm this week end. Maybe I will try it here in West Seattle. I remember days in February in Minnesota when it got to 50+F. Would it be effective instead of the usual oil and sulfur? I would like to think ACT might be the universal magic !! Bob

Judi Stewart <js_at_olympus.net> wrote: ( Note below)

How do you all deal with the mud/sludge on the bottom
of the brewers? Do you keep it moving in
the brewer?

Why don't I leave the compost in solution without the
chamber and direct all the air to the bottom of the
brewer, always keeping the compost in motion and in solution? The reason you don't do this, Judy is that the much more active extraction chamber is more effective to extract the bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes from the compost than the placid water action the same air would create in the larger container. And then even if the extraction was good enough in the chamber, now you have to filter the ACT as it leaves the container. so you lose fungi whose fibers are most suseptable too being caught by any filter. Just think about it. Fine invisible fiber that would go thru any nozzle stands a good chance of being hung up over the bars of a filter.

Coming next from Bob will be a screen that will not hang up the fibers. This will be availabe to retrofit your BobO & Bitti, Judi. And anyone elses. Probably most home builts and most other commercial brewers too.

Can we test for effectivity at SFI.Elaine? Bob

Thank you,
Judi








---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/compost_tea/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/vnd.ms-excel name=DO curves.xls




Received on Sat Jan 10 2004 - 15:38:40 EST

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Tue Feb 07 2012 - 14:15:00 EST