Re: [compost_tea] Re: 131 degrees Farenheit heated compost for 3 days

From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:11:01 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank L Teuton
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: 131 degrees Farenheit heated compost for 3 d=
ays


Hi Elaine,

Your statement below is sufficiently unclear for me to ask you to clarify i=
t.

I hope you are not saying that compost made according to process standards =
will have thriving pathogen populations in 2% of the cases and that's not a=
 big deal...

Frank Teuton

Pathogens, Pathogens everywhere but not enough to infect.

I'll answer this in addition to what Elaine might add. If she corrects my =
misstatements, please take here position over mine.

We are mainly talking about e coli and salmonella. There are others but th=
ese are the ones that seem to crop up most commonly. There are soil born p=
athogens that are quite virulent but they are rare indeed. Biosolids are t=
ested for over 150 potentially dangerous pathogens but in all that testing =
most are never seen or are seen so rarely and in such few numbers that it w=
ould be virtually impossible for an outbreak. Besides, before these rare o=
nes could multiply, the sample would be totally overrun with e coli and sal=
monela.

Pathogens are everywhere and they are needed in the deomposition process. =
You come in contact with pathogens every day in all your activities but not=
 in enough numbers to get you sick. Possibly the only place were there are =
no pathogens are operating rooms and sterile chambers where satelites and s=
pace stuff is assembled that have been treated with Xenon light. But I can=
not make this statement with complete confidence. After all, e coli are sm=
aller than other bacteria and one might survive.

Pathogens like it warm and they don't like air. However, there are switche=
rs. These are bacteria in your and my colon that operate like pathogens bu=
t can tolerate air.

In compost, even if you get the temps in the pile up to 131 or more and kee=
p it there for 15 days which is EPA recommendatios for biosolids, Part of =
your pile will be 70 - 80 degrees. Even when you turn and bring this into =
the inner part of the compost pile, some of the pile will just never get pa=
sturized. So, in addition to temp, you want to turn your pile enough so th=
at the areas where pathogens can congregate get exposed to air. Remember t=
hat pathogens do not like air.

Now here comes the tricky part. Even if you expose pathogens to air and ta=
ke away their food, you cannot kill them. They go to sleep or become inert=
. So they are still there but not active. Yes, some will be active but th=
ese will be less than 0.02 percent measured in ppm. That means they are vi=
rtually undetectable. As compost matures after the pasturization process, =
pathogen regrowth is controlled biologically as opposed the thermally. The=
y are still there but controlled by other, healthy, nonpathogenic bacteria.=
  Occasionally an asleep pathogenic bacteria can be digested (microphage) b=
ut there is virtually no way to ensure this will happen.

When Elaine writes about being careful in selecting food it's because she d=
oesn't want people to use compost, which certainly contains an element of p=
athogens and brew them with food that will PRESELECT for the pathogenic bac=
teria. This food would be something like Blood Meal, Bat Guano, Bone meal =
and other sources of nitrogen that these pathogens like.

If you are brewing in the 70+ dF range and giving your tea food that the pa=
thogens like, there is greater than a remote chance that you will create an=
 environment somewhere in your brewer that favors the pathogens. Favor the=
 pathogens and they will wake up and become active and start growing.

I think that's it in a nutshell.

Ted Peterson
Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth



Received on Thu Mar 04 2004 - 23:55:23 EST

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