Compost Tea variability wuz Re: [compost_tea] Re: do meter????

From: Frank L Teuton <fteuton_at_sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:49:04 -0500

Hi Ted,

I recently bought the CD of a Biodynamic Viticulture event sponsored last f=
all by Allan Balliet igg_at_igg.com. One of the first speakers was Dr. Michael=
 Glenn, one of the inventors of particle film technology (kaolin clay, Surr=
ound [tm]). He reinforced the basic soundness of the idea behind compost te=
a against diseases, site competition, but recited uneven results using comp=
ost teas against apple scab, both alone and in conjunction with particle fi=
lm technology. He suggested that variability in compost tea biology might b=
e the root cause for his uneven results.

When research scientists are saying this sort of thing, it means that the f=
ield is wide open for someone who has, as you claim to, Ted, 23 products wh=
ich will produce repeatable compost tea products if made according to direc=
tions....

In order to enter the marketplace the 'safety' issues have to be satisfied,=
 and in order to succeed there in the long run, the 'effectiveness' demands=
 have to be met.

I'm reasonably convinced that compost teas can be made safely. Extra care i=
s needed, I believe, compared to ordinary composting, because of the fact t=
hat compost teas will need to be applied to foliage and fruits within the t=
ime frame that potential pathogens might be problematic if they are present=
, and because the addition of nutrients to compost tea processes creates th=
e possibility of increasing certain pathogens if the original compost is no=
t up to snuff and/or the process is not properly managed, eg, DO not monito=
red, etc.

Effectiveness needs to be shown with consistency, and therein lies a fair a=
mount of expensive R & D. Can you really guarantee the effectiveness of you=
r teas, Ted, to large scale growers with hundreds of thousands of dollars t=
o lose?

If you can, that's great. I hope you realize you have something of substant=
ial value and that you need to distinguish yourself from those whose teas a=
re not so effective. And perhaps not so safe.

With one out of ten 'properly made' composts out there supposedly containin=
g either dormant or thriving populations of pathogens, and one out of four =
Americans suffering from foodborne illness every year, it only makes good s=
ense to be prudent.

This is why many people out there are concerned that the necessary QA/QC be=
 developed and applied.

Don't we all agree on that?

Frank Teuton

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ted Peterson
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: do meter????


  Let me ask you this: Do you test every time you use Miracle Gro? Do you=
 test each time you put compost down? Do you test each and every batch of =
fertilizer whether organic or not? Do you test each application of pesticid=
e or herbicide? No you don't and to keep beating the drum that ACT is so u=
nstable as to need testing with each and every batch will ensure that ACT N=
EVER becomes certified as a usefule ag product.

  Ted Peterson
  Earth-Wise/Sprit of the Earth
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: tomjasz
    To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:44 PM
    Subject: [compost_tea] Re: do meter????


    With tested equipment compatible nutrient packs and solidly
    developed methodologies we will see consistent tea within acceptable
    parameters. The instant changes are made in nutrients a DO log
    should be considered. Once again NOT monitoring DO on a commercial
    level is dangerously irresponsible. As far as practicallity under
    commercial conditions, what could be easier than using an old PC
    hooked up to a DO meter to take constant readings and log them? The
    first time there is an incident in a public garden/park/ballfield
    and you don't have the appropriate data we are all put at risk.
    Perhaps your climmate is not as litigious! Many of us use or DO
    meters with every brew. I'm still not accepting of scientifically
    unsubstantiated trends.

    --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Ted Peterson"
    <ted.peterson_at_t...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tomjasz
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:57 AM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: do meter????
>
>
> I believe anyone producing large quantities of tea and selling
    would
> be foolish to NOT have reocrds of DO levels throughout the brew!
>
>
> Here we have one of the problems that Hi_Yield keeps bringing up.
    At what point can we say that we can produce product without
    continual testing? I use DO when I change things to make sure I am
    not substantially changing what I know works or to tell me I have
    found something that trends a little better than previous
    methodologies.
>
> At some time, I have to get to a point where I say: add a, b and c
    and you will get good tea based on the compost you use. I can't ask
    every user to test every batch and can't expect even commercially
    brewed tea undergo testing all the time as you suggest. It just
    isn't practical. I have logged all my batches which by now is over
    350 and I have noticed certain things happen at certain times
    depending on the set of variables surrounding the brewing. So I get
    trends. When I don't see these trends, I suspect something is
    wrong.
>
> So at what point would you suggest putting out a recipe and feel
    confident that a casual user could follow it and produce good --
    high bac multiples and fung extraction -- without needing to test?
    I have 23 recipes that I feel confident I can sell or give to
    someone and the end product will be very close to the one I
    produce. Of course there will be variables depending on compost
    used. If he uses my compost and follows instructions, he should not
    have to test at all and should be able to produce -- within a
    certain range -- exactly the same tea as me.
>
> Ted Peterson
> Earth-Wise/Spirit of the Earth



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Received on Sun Mar 14 2004 - 15:02:19 EST

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