Re: [compost_tea] Re: metal chelates-application rates

From: <soilfoodweb_at_aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:41:28 -0400
Hi Eric -

> International Ag Labs notes that our soils are deficient in copper and manganese.  Recommendation:  10# copper sulfate and 10# manganse sulfate applied to soil, ideally in fall. 

It is 100 times worse to add the sulfate-containing compounds, than the chelated variety.  The sulfates are very hard on fungi, and applied at 10 pounds per ac, will have detrimental effects on the organisms, both bacterial and fungi. 

If you are dealing with a stricitly chemical system, then these recommendations would be acceptable, but if you need beneficial biology, then these recommendations take you half a light backwards. 

So, Dr. Miller is absolutely correct, the chelated forms of these nutrients are the much better choice. 

Most of the time, when someone says chelation, it means they have bound the metal to a protein (any any protein will do), or a protein analogue, like EDTA.  That helps the plant take up the metal, without harming the active transport molecules in the meantime.  Generally, if just the metal is hanging around, the damage to the root when it tries to take up the non-chelated molecule means more damage than benefit to the plant.  So, chelation is important. 

> chelates (for instance Baicor products, I gather, are much more plant friendly and more quickly assimilable as they have already been processed by plant enzymes, etc. (I'm a little fuzzy on the science, can you tell?)

so, processed by plant enzymes just means the metal ions were tied to an organic molecule, typically a protein. 

Organically certified chelates are even better, since then the protein is protein, and not a protein analogue.  Who knows what a protein analogue really does to the organisms in the soil.  Probably not good, and indeed there is some data to show that EDTA, for example, is bad news for many soil beneficials.


> Dr. Miller says flat out that he does not know the effect of the chelates on microbes in tea but suspects that any antagonistic effects might be concentration dependent. 

Absolutely right there.  Testing is the only way to know for certain.  So, IF you want to know, take a sample of your tea before you add the chelate, then add the chelate, let mix for a bit (an hour?), and test again.  Then you know for sure.


You wrote:
He does not feel that the chelates will have a negative effect on the metabolites that are in the tea, but is unsure about organisms themselves.  He says the chelates will internalize quickly into the plant and not remain on the leaf.

Actually, the organisms in the tea will take up the chelates, and improve plant uptake of the nutrients, IF you have protozoa in the tea.  Nutrient cycling occurs on leaf surfaces just like anywhere else.  The bacteria and fungi glue the nutrients to the leaf surface, the protozoa and nematodes consume the bacteria and fungi, and release the nutrients in a plant-available form. 


> Dr. Miller's recommendation is for 1 - 2 gallons of Manganese chelate and 0.5 to 1 gallon of copper chelate.  In our case that would be mixed with approximately 200 gallons of water and 20 gallons of tea for our foliar program (four 50 gallon tanks per acre with chelate, tea, kelp, fish, molasses, minerals and spreader/sticker).  It's our hope that the copper chelate and the tea will be helfpul with apple scab (Venturia sp.)and help make up plant tissue and soil deficiencies through translocation.

Those levels of chelates will not be a problem (I am assuming you mean 1 - 2 gallons per ac, right?  The tea itself will provide a barrier layer of organisms on the leaf surfaces so pathogens cannot reach the leaf surface.  Just make sure that your leaves are covered by at least 70%.  Try putting a red food dye into the tea at the end of the tea spray, and make sure the leaf surfaces are being covered at least 70%.

I'd love to have people try this approach, and then let me know if it worked for you.  I've tried ti myself, with pretty good results, although the red color is hard to see sometimes.  I put 1 of the red food coloring bottles in 5 gal of tea.  If the color isn't enough for your eyes, try putting t wo bottles in.  At least it is a cheap, and immedatiely way to tell if you are getting coverage.

The color should then disappear if the organisms are active on your leaf surfaces.  Remember, active organisms stick to the leaf surfaces, and consume the exudates the plant puts out.  They should consume the red food coloring.  The red color should disappear if you have active organisms sticking to the leaf surfaces.

OK?  Let me know your experiences, please!  I've given away some good (I hope) information here.  Please do your part for the world by letting me know how this works for you.

Elaine Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
SFI Corvallis, OR
SFI Port Jefferson, NY
SFI Lismore, NSW, Australia
SFI Hilversum, The Netherlands
SFI Cambridge, New Zealand
SFI Culiacan, Mexico
SFI Jerome, Idaho
http://www.soilfoodweb.com


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Received on Wed May 05 2004 - 13:03:31 EDT

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