Re: [compost_tea] Re: pre-activation results

From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:23:37 -0700 (PDT)

Paul - the screen is an 18 mesh screen, same as is used for insect screen . It, of course, holds some of the fungal fibers if they get hung across the mesh fiber. And it allow some particulate thru. With good air/water activity most of the particulate that gets thru the screen remains suspended and is a haven for microbe growth. Some of the heavy particulate will settle out as silt. With design the tea release location and shape of plumbing the ACT is drawn off with a minimum of heavy particulate of a size that could interfere with application. We think application systems for ACT need to be without secondary screens and with nozzle sizes large enough to pass anything that is passed by the 18 mess screen. Some applicators are finding this combination useful. Some are still fighting with secondary filtering. Comparative results are not documented.
 
Silt is largely made up of heavy sand particles. Remnants in the extraction chamber are large particles of wood or fiber We return both silt and remnants to the compost pile to add to the microbe activity and for further beak-down.
 
We are studying a reduction in screen size from 18 to 20 mesh. Will that make a difference? When I tested 100 mesh some years ago the results were so depressed we decided to stay with 18 mesh and to look at nozzle size and at what is the size droplets to deliver microbes in a way they can best survive. 18 mesh allows particles that are large enough to include bacteria on particles and fungi into the tea where they can grow. I don't know that the size we use is the best size but where the application system has been adjusted to accomodate 18 mesh screen the results have been good. Is that more than you wanted to know?
 
Sometimes it is hazardus to ask for the time because you may have to wait while the guy builds a clock. Bob

paul trans <pde3779_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Bob,
I've never seen one of your brewers and am wondering what kind of a screen you use that will let fungus thru but will keep all the compost in the extractor? Do you get any sedimentation on the bottom of the tank?
 
Thanks.
 
 
I agree with Ted about bags and about chambers as they were produced by some manufacturers. Bags and ineffective chambers were the signals that started Bob's stuff.
 
However, compared to Ted's free suspension system where the compost and nutrients float freely ( lazily ?) in the main body of water, a well designed extraction chamber provides many times the extaction intensity and on all of the compost, to separate the microbes, specially the fungi, from the compost. None of the compost settles to lay quietly in the tank. Bob's can use less compost for equal or better ACT reports.

The screen on Bob's chamber is the only filter in the ( adjusted application system ) all the way to the nozzles so the growth that occurs in the TEA is never filtered out.
 
Harder to clean?
 Last thursday Frank and I returned to the shop after appliing 500 gallons of ACT. From start of clean-up to re-assembled ready to reload the next brew took 15 minutes. This is our 500 gallon truck mounted elliptical tank system. The BobOLator and Bitti take less time. Two men working together? Not really. Frank did all but the tank rinse. I did that because I wanted to see the condition of the tank after the 4th brew. ( Inside was bright white with no feeling of slime) I think the high DO2 and perhaps the high rate of water movemment that we carry reduces the tendency to form slime on the tank surface. clean up included the exterior and truck floor as well as the brewer system.

Two incidence on that brew may be of interest ; Clay and O2 shut down & restart.
this is not sales oriented folks, just an experience that may help any brewer, any system,
 
CLAY Listening to the List and other data on CLAY, suggested I try adding it. I got 100 lbs clay that we use for other puposes - another company - going to add some to a 500 gallon brew. Guessed at a gallon of clay granules. Added them to the chamber. Hmmmm. Wrong! That gallon expanded to 5 gallons and absolutly plugged our screen in 1 minute. I Fished lumps out of the chamber until the chamber became able to be active again. Active, the action soon liquified the clay. MORAL - add clay a little at a time so the action continues.
 
Driving on the ferry for this delivery, ferry rules are "no motors are allowed to run on the car deck. So we alerted the deck captain that we might have to operate the generator if DO2 dropped. The 500 g brewer uses 50 CFM blower, needs the generator to operate the 1 hp electric blower. The normal level held with the high compost . nutrient load we use is 7.8 to 8,8.
 
We were reading those numbers when we stopped the blower. The DO2 level dropped steadily to 5.7 in 12 minutes at which time we advised the deck captain. The ferries are used to hauling live fish so they have a policy to allow generators when necessary. Upon starting the generator and the blower the DO2 level steadily retuned to 7.8 in a matter of 16 minutes.
    
Moral of that story - Microbes don't stop using DO2 after 20 or 24 hours. They need O2 until released to the plant or soil where they are exposed to atmospheric O2. Bob
 
 
Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net> wrote:
I don't like bags. I use the free suspension method. Tests I have done indicate that I get better fungal extraction and everything seems to work more quickly. I design my brewers with this in mind. I have bought and tried bag systems and chamber systems and even tried designing some of my own but all were less successful than free suspension in my experience.
 
Bags:
 
Are hard to maintain
Restrict fungal extraction
Contribute to anaerobic conditions because the center of the bag rarely gets air unless you add an additional air stone in the center of the bag.
Are difficult to clean.
Are messy.
 
Chambers:
 
Are hard to maintain
A little better fungal extraction
Contribute to anaerobic conditions (see bags above)
Are difficult to clean but less so than bags.
 
Free Suspension:
 
Clean
Maintenance free
Can contribute to anaerobic conditions if your aeration isn't adequate.
Are easy to clean.
 
The only drawback with free suspension is that you have to filter the tea after you brew. Depending on how you do this, you could restrict the amount of fungi, protozoa and nematodes that get applied. I have tried gravity extraction and I use an extraction pump (Wayne models) and tested my fungal and protozoa counts before and after extraction. After the counts were slightly less but I don't think the amount was significant enough to make the system unusable. I would extimate a 10 to 15% reduction in higher level critters. Biomass seemed about the same density but in smaller clumps. I tests with a 1000 x Spencer Microscope.
 
Ted Peterson
EW/SOE
Are messy.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Margaret Lauterbach
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: pre-activation results


Ted, what kind of bag do you put your compost in for brewing tea? Thanks
very much


>Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net> wrote:
>Yes, we can predict. Remember though that we are dealing with billions of
>microscopic creatures. So I think that excat numbers my not be so
>important in a predictive sense but ranges of critters and diversity show
>"x" results. Tea does work. I have test data that shows it works just
>the way it says in the Compost Tea Brewing Manual. That is pretty
>predicitive as far as I am concerned.
>
>
>You don't need to find a compost, you can make one. Here is a quick way
>to jumpstart your compost pile.
>
>Start with a bag of commercial compost. You can even brew with it. It
>will work but you will be uncertain as to diversity. Go around your local
>area and pick up some of the leaves and humus under the trees. Go to a
>bunch of places and take a 2G bucketful from each place. Get the old
>rotting leaves at the bottom not the newly dropped green leaves. Plastic
>garbage bags work great. Try to get a ratio of about 50/50 with the
>leaves and humus you pick up and your commercial compost. Dump both
>together and keep it about 45% moist. How do you know that level of
>moisture? Grab a handful and squeeze it. It should stay lumped together
>without being muddy. If you get it too wet, don't fret, it will dry
>out. Turn this pile with a shovel or pitchfork every couple of days.
>
>If you have a brewer, you can keep a little of the compost and the humus
>you collect and brew a batch of tea. Put in molasses, fish emulsion
>(fertilizer will work), some kelp and some humic acid. (I have even used
>ammonium sulfate but I like organic inputs. The AS works and I use it for
>certain processing but I'm not a real fan. If you use this stuff, dilute
>it a lot and use it with caution. To much can have adverse effects on the
>critters.). What you are going to do is use the commercial compost as an
>organic material base then build a pile using your local leaves and humus
>to give the most local diversity. Don't expect this pile to heat up like
>a regular compost pile and you should try to keep temps around 90 - 100
>dF. If you have a source of manure, you can add that but, depending on
>the compost you start with, you may not need any.
>
> Anyway, brew a batch of tea and pour it on your compost pile. Depending
> on your brewer, you will probably need no more than a couple of
> gallons. Pour it in as you turn the pile so you get it into as much of
> the pile as you can without getting the pile too wet. Let this pile stay
> around for about 2 - 3 weeks. You should have good fungal growth and
> your bacteria should be reactivated in the commercial and growing from
> your local stuff. If you keep it turned, you will be promoting the
> aerobes and they will multiply.
>
>
>Ted Peterson
>EW/SOE

Margaret L
Gardening in Intermountain West and Handicapped gardening
http://www.margaretlauterbach.com





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Received on Sun May 16 2004 - 21:54:45 EDT

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