Re: [compost_tea] soil chemistry facts

From: Thomas Giannou <thomas_at_tandjenterprises.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 17:49:06 -0700

Elaine,

I never said you are against compost and I have never entertained the thoug=
ht. I am simply saying there are different sources of nutrients ending up =
in the plants (nutrients which are released from the soil by the organisms,=
 nutrients which are in the compost, and nutrients which are in the various=
 tea applications). There are also other sources of nutrients being added.=
  

In your original message you were saying all the nutrients plants need are =
already in the soils (but are mostly bound up) and all we need to do is add=
 compost / food with the organisms to release those bound up nutrients. =
 

My question was that when we look at what nutrients are in and on a plant, =
how can we differentiate between the nutrients that are in the compost VS n=
utrients that are in the tea VS the nutrients that are released from the so=
ils that eventually end up in a plant? You said "We don't need to differen=
tiate between nutrients in compost, versus the not-soluble set of nutrients=
 in soil. Often, we don't have enough compost to put down all the needed-f=
or-growth nutrients that you plants need."

I read in your original message that you said all the nutrients were alread=
y in agricultural soils that plants need and that none need to be added. W=
hen I consider what people are adding to their compost and to their teas, a=
nd the fact that chelated minerals are in teas, then it's highly probable t=
hat those organic and inorganic nutrients in compost and tea are ending up =
in the plants.

It seems clear to me that data needs to be collected about the nutrients (o=
rganic and inorganic) made available from the compost as well as the nutrie=
nts being made available from various tea applications and the nutrients th=
at are being solubilized out of the soils by the organisms when you conside=
r what nutrients end up on or in any given plant. If you don't collect tha=
t data about the organic and inorganic nutrients that are in the compost, t=
ea and soil, and somehow tie it to what ends up in the plants how are you g=
oing to present any relevant data about the nutrients that are coming out o=
f the soil that are ending up in the plants? How are you going to define w=
hat nutrients are coming out of the soil when you also have nutrients comin=
g out of the compost and the tea that are going into the plants?

In prior conversations about compost tea, you said compost tea was loaded w=
ith chelated minerals. If compost tea is being applied frequently, then it=
 seems like there would be a fairly high probability that the inorganic ele=
ments that ended up in a plant have come from the tea. Lot's of people are=
 putting trace minerals into their tea and into their compost.

What data can you present in this situation that shows how many nutrients a=
re being made available out of the soils VS the nutrients that are being ma=
de available out of the compost VS the nutrients that are being made availa=
ble out of compost tea applications and how can you tie that data to what a=
ctually ends up in or on a plant? I keep coming back to this question beca=
use it seems reasonable to know which source the nutrients are coming from =
that end up on and in a plant before claiming that the soil contains all th=
e nutrients that plants need.

--Thomas Giannou
http://www.tandjenterprises.com

----- Original Message -----
  From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 2:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] soil chemistry facts


  Thomas -

  Parent material is the mineral fraction of the soil. This is a standard =
soil term.

  I did not say that there is an inconsequential amount of nutrients in 1 t=
o 3 tons of compost. Please re-rread my e-mail.

  When you consider soil that has less than 0.5% organic matter in it, and =
you need to have the total set of nutrients or even the exchangeable nutrie=
nts turned into available nutrients for the plants, you either have to add =
compost, with all of the great sets of available nutrients in it, or (!) yo=
u have to add compost so the great set of diverse organisms in it begin the=
 job of solubilizing the massive set of nutrients locked up in the soil par=
ent matterial.

  You are trying to make it sound as if I was arguing against compost, when=
 my message was nothing of the kind.

  I don't like when someone tries to get argumentative, and tries to tell m=
e I am saying something that I never said! Please stop doing that.

  The organisms - whether from compost, or compost tea, will solubilize the=
 massive set of total nutrients tied up in plant-not-available forms in the=
 soil.

  The point of my message was that INORGANIC FERTILIZER is absolutely a was=
te of people's money, except for that short period of time when you are try=
ing to get the organisms established, and have to have soluble nutrients pr=
esent for your plants don't die of lack of available nutrients.

  Elaine R. Ingham
  Soil Foodweb Inc., Corvallis, Oregon
  Soil Foodweb Inc., Port Jefferson, New York
  Soil Foodweb Institute, Lismore Australia
  Soil Foodweb Institue Cambridge, New Zealand
  Soil Foodweb Inc., Hilversum, The Netherlands
  Laboratorios de Soil Foodweb, Culiacan, Mexico
  Soil Foodweb Inc., Jerome, Idaho


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Received on Sat Sep 04 2004 - 23:21:01 EDT

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