Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost tea, November 2004

From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:09:35 -0700

Matt et al:

This comports with my findings. It is interesting that there are different=
 mildew pathogens for different plants. I wasn't aware of this. It leads =
me to question why the vinyards so consistently use roses at the end of vin=
e rows as mildew indicators. Do you have any information on that? In the =
wine growing courses taught at our local ag university, roses are promoted =
as mildew indicators. Instead of checking the entire row, the rose is chec=
ked. If the rose shows mildew, there is a high certainty that the grapes h=
ave mildew. I work with 5 different vinyards in somewhat different microcl=
imates and all use roses as indicators. Maybe the mildew that attackes ros=
es does so before the mildew that attacks vines?

I quote from the Rodale's: All New Encyclopedia of Organic Farming. 1992, p=
. 290 (Under the heading Grape). Sulfur dust or spray helps prevent diseas=
e. If you've had past problems with disease, you may want to consider a re=
gular preventive (sic) spray program. Coat all parts of the vines, includi=
ng the undersides of leaves, before symptoms appear. Apply . . . every two =
weeks until 4-6 weeks before harvest.

On the same page, it list a beetle control using Bacillus thruingiensis.

Ted Peterson
EW/SOE
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan, Matthew
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 2:03 PM
  Subject: RE: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compost =
tea, November 2004


        Hi Ted, Tom, Titel, and others.

        

        It’s been a while since I posted last, but I do still read =
the posts and I thought that I could shed some light on this subject of pow=
dery mildew and compost tea. First off, you guys are talking about differe=
nt pathogens. Grape powdery mildew caused by Uncinula necator, which is di=
fferent from the powdery mildew on roses which is caused by Sphaerotheca pa=
nnosa. Thus you can't really compare the effects from tea on the powdery m=
ildew on these different plants because were talking about different pathog=
ens. Second, since powdery mildew usually prefers dry weather and does not=
 like rain, it is possible that spraying just plain water will result in a =
reduction of infection.

        

        In our research at Rodale we found that ACT did suppress grape powd=
ery mildew at one of the vineyards in one of the two years were experimente=
d, but this was only about 50% suppression and was not adequate from the gr=
ower’s perspective. In the second year we did not observe any powd=
ery mildew suppression at any of the three vineyards we were collaborating =
with. So it seems like there is potential, but ACT for disease suppression=
 really needs some major developments before it can be recommended with con=
fidence (ie. purchase crop if suppression fails like Ted mentioned) to grow=
ers.

        

        I also wanted to mention that Tom has a good point - "As hard as I =
search I still haven’t found an article on disease suppression supp=
orting ACT by your methodologies".

        

        I hope that I have not offended anybody, just wanted to shed some l=
ight in a constructive sense.

        

        Matt Ryan

        The Rodale Institute

        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ted Peterson [mailto:ted.peterson_at_tcsn.net]
        Sent: Thu 10/21/2004 2:19 AM
        To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
        Cc:
        Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on co=
mpost tea, November 2004
        
        
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Titel Ryzhomer <mailto:thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
        To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:15 PM
        Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Phytopathology journal article on compos=
t tea, November 2004

        
        Hi Ted,
        
        Yes, I've actually observed with magnification the powdery mildew
        structure breaking down after spraying (under magnification it has =
a
        building block, almost geodesic (sp) structure) and eventually
        disappearing, sometimes leaving a scar. This efficacy has not been=
 
        apparent with every batch of CT, however other batches have helped=
 
        to control it as you have indicated regarding grape plants. I am
        aware that there are many types of powdery mildew and perhaps this=
 
        CT is working only on the variety we have growing here on
        delphineas, roses, some herbs, Indian Hemp or Dogbane {Apocynum
        androsaemifolium} and a weed that appears to belong to the Evening=
 
        Primrose family. It has been quite easy to induce the powdery milde=
w
        (for research purposes) through use of poor growing conditions, etc=
.
        
        I hope this helps to clarify.
        
        Regards,
        Titel
        
        
        
        Well, I will have to say this is amazing. In all the tests I have =
run here I have seen nothing like this. We have several vinyards using dif=
ferent brewers from different makers and some home ones knocked off of mine=
 and Earth Works and a lot of different recipes. I haven't heard reports l=
ike yours from any of them. Most vinyards use Roses as indicator plants be=
cause powdery mildew will usually show up there before grapes. If the vinya=
rd people see it on the roses they can be pretty sure it's in the vines. I=
 tried spraying right on the roses with full strength tea and it did nothin=
g to the mildew that was already there. It did prevent the mildew from spr=
eading but did absolutely nothing to the existing mildew on the plant. In =
addition, I had to spray every day to prevent the spread. When I stopped s=
praying, the mildew started spreading in 1 to 2 weeks depending on mildew p=
ressure.
        
        Do you have controls? Did you try spraying with just molasses or j=
ust water? Could it be that there was a residue of fungicide that was acti=
vated when you sprayed? Was the sprayer you used completely clean of fungi=
cides? Did you add anything to the tea that was a form of organic fungicid=
e that you didn't explain in your message?
        
        Here is the problem I have: I did not see and have not seen anythi=
ng even close to what you are describing. If I believe what you say and go=
 to a vinyard and present CT as able to cure powdery mildew and it doesn't,=
 I am financially responsible for their loss of product. Are you sure enou=
gh of what you posted about eradication of powdery mildew to back up that c=
laim to a grower? Would you be willing to go to a grower and state if he f=
ollows your directions and the mildew does not subside that you would compe=
nsate him for the loss?
        
        The tests I made were on conventional vines, organic vines and patc=
hes that were separated by enough distance to give pretty accuract results.=
  One vinyard was in a medium to high mildew pressure area and the other wa=
s in an area that was traditionally low mildew pressure. I did see the out=
breaks controlled in every vinyard I have applied tea instead of convention=
al fungicide but even in the most successful vinyards, we got minor outbrea=
ks. I treated those with fungicide after I determined that tea could do no=
thing to eradicate the mildew. So your post is very interesting to me. Do=
 you have any lab test to substantiate what you say? Would you be willing =
to let me contact the grower and find out his/her impression of what happen=
ed? If what you say is true, you may have found something worth a fortune =
to organic growers.
        
        I now have contracts with 5 vinyards and have sprayed a lot of tea =
over almost three years. I have done a lot of tests and am still unprepare=
d to make the statement you have made after 7 months so I am very intereste=
d to learn where you are having success when nobody I know, even other cons=
ultants, are having the same results.
        
        You mentioned inducing mildew as the result of poor growing conditi=
ons. The spread of mildew has not been the result of poor growing conditio=
ns as far as I can tell. It attacks both conventional and organicically ma=
naged plants with equal vengence. I have seen it attack in extremely well =
managed vinyards and skip poorly managed vinyards and vice-versa.
        
        Ted Peterson
        EW/SOE

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Received on Tue Oct 26 2004 - 15:37:33 EDT

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