Subject: Re: NEED ADVICE ON FIGHTING A TICKET

From: [email-masked] (KENNY MORSE)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:52:41

In article <[email-masked]> NMA  wrote:
>About 50% of officers don't bother to 
>show up for their cases, so they're usually thrown out. 

I hate to take issue with my friend Bob, but this just ain't 
so.

Although the "show up" rate DOES vary from jurisdiction to 
jurisdiction across the land, the best stats that I have 
culled from all the state Highway Patrol's I have contacted is 
the GENERAL no show rate is about 25%. Slightly higher in 
local large cities.

A police officer is supposed to show up. Why wouldn't one go? 
They can't be in 2 places at once.  If they are on duty, the 
HAVE to go. If they are in another court, they obviously can 
appear.  If they are off duty, they are paid time and a half 
to show! Not bad!  If they are out of town, they do NOT have 
to return.

Kenny Morse
Mr. Traffic
http://www.usbusiness.com/mr_traffic

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From: NMA <[email-masked]>
Date: 18 Sep 1995 17:55:30 GMT

Getting a speeding ticket nowadays is easy; so easy in fact that we call 
it the "reverse lottery" except when you win this lottery, -you pay- (if 
you don't want to fight, most dont for some reason).

Still, everyone that gets a speeding ticket should fight it.  In many 
cases it's highway robbery legalized by the state.  If you feel pissed 
off when you got it, like you got it for no other reason than the cop had 
to fill out a quota, take that anger to court and win!  Make the city 
waste some money for a ticket.  If even 10% of tickets were contested, 
you'd see an end to speed trap revenue mills because the courts would be 
proceeding at OJ Simpson case speed with the other "real" cases.

You don't need an attorney in most cases, just determination to right the 
wrong they did to you.

-- 
National Motorists Association      	Join the NMA!
[email-masked]                  	$29 a year.
http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/nma/    	Sign up online.

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From: NMA <[email-masked]>
Date: 19 Sep 1995 16:05:34 GMT

[email-masked] (Steven G. Thomson) wrote:
>How can you complain about being caught, when you knowingly break the 
>law. What possible defense could you use? None.

Did it ever occur to you that if we have 96% noncompliance with a law (as 
was the case when NY had a 55 mph speed limit) that the law is wrong and 
not those violating it?  In fact, NY Gov. Pataki acknowledged as much 
when he said it needed to be repealed.  This is why Prohibition was 
repealed back in the 30's.

In teh case of speed limits, the defense is that the limit is set 
incorrectly and  without regard to traffic engineering standards.  Since 
speed limit signs are a traffic control device just like stop signs, 
right-of-way signs and whatnot, they are subject to the same standards as 
those.  IOW, for the numbers on a speed limit sign to be valid, they have 
to be based on an engineering survey.  Usually though, that reason is 
inconvenient to the local politicans, who lower speed limits to placate 
non-knowing "concerned citizens" who want to slow down "those damn 
speeders who will kill all the children for Pete's sake" (they always 
go to extremes) and, not incidentally, raise revenue for the town without 
raising taxes.  

On average, speed limits are 10-15 mph below what engineers would set 
them at.  They're set at about the 30th percentile when they should be at 
the 85th percentile.

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From: [email-masked] (John P. Curcio)
Date: 20 Sep 1995 15:15:15 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,
Robert King <[email-masked]> wrote:
>In article [email-masked], NMA <[email-masked]> () writes:

>   Yes, but until it was repealed it was still in effect and violators could
>have, should have and were procecuted.  If there were a law against wearing
>blue shirts, folks wearing them would be in violation of the law and subject
>to the penalties associated with it.  It doesn't matter if the law is right
>or not.

>   Everyone seems to think laws have somthing to do with Justice or right
>and wrong.  They do not.  But we must obey them or suffer the consequences.

Oh, I see.  The civil disobedience and other efforts for racial
equality by Martin Luther King were illegal by the law of the times,
therefore they should have paid the penalty.  We should be sheep,
blindly following all the laws provided by our legislators because
they are The Law.  This is stupid, plain and simple.

>   Instead of expending energy fighting TICKETS, those people should instead
>fight the LAWS themselves.  Traffic tickets are only a symptom of injust
>traffic laws.

Yes, they are.  A number of us do fight against these things (take the
NMA and RADAR, for example).  The deck is stacked against us, though,
since there are a number of factions who will believe whatever they
are told by politicians and insurance companies (remember "55 saves
lives?"  It ain't so).  The amount of money the insurance lobby is
willing to spend to keep the unreasonably low speed limits is
astronomical.  How can we fight them, when politicians only listen to
where the money comes from?

-JPC

-- 
=============================================================================
John P. Curcio  [email-masked]  Philips Labs  Briarcliff Manor, NY
                "FOSTERS:  Australian for Bud, mate!!"
   "No goats, no boats, no motorcars, not a single 'yes-siree!'"  -BH

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From: [email-masked] (Steven G. Thomson)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 01:55:45 GMT

>Mass disobedience is the American way whether you like it or not.  We've 
>dumped tea in a harbor, blown up buildings on campuses, had people march 
>miles for civil rights in violation of existing laws, etc.  All had an 
>effect.  If no one acted for example, on Prohibition, we'd still be 
>drinking illegally (and we're moving back in that direction because the 
>under-21 crowd isn't fighting)

Disobey the speed limit if you want, but if you are caught doing 75 in
a 55, there is no defense. You are free to whine about a travesty of
justice, etc...after you pay the fine.

Steven

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From: NMA <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Sep 1995 18:24:17 GMT

>justice, etc...after you pay the fine.

Absolute nonsense.  It's a lot easier to fight a ticket than most people 
think, and in some states (such as CA), a speed limit that is not 
properly set constitutes a speed trap and thus any ticket issued is 
automatically invalid.  A roadway that's marked with tape/paint stripes 
for airplane speed traps is also illegal in CA.

Just because it's "the law" does not mean it's a good idea.  Most of the 
time, yes, but not when it comes to traffic law.