From kevina  Mon May 15 23:55:46 1995
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From: ldahlmey@chaos.aoc.nrao.EDU (Cpt. Zoom)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: !Speed Limits Irrelevant!
Date: 15 May 1995 16:49:22 -0600
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	National Motorists Association
	6678 Pertzborn Road, Dane, Wisconsin 53529	608/849-6000


	For Immediate Release			Media Contact:

	June 1, 1995				James J. Baxter

						President

						608/849-6000


		Federal Study Finds Speed Limits Irrelevant

	Dane, WI -

		"The federal government spent over half a million dollars
	and five years on an exhaustive study of speed limits, and then
	buried it. The study was buried because it didn't come up with
	the answers that the Washington establishment wanted." James J.
	Baxter, President of the National Motorists Association, made
	that claim in a letter to members of Congress who are
	deliberating on repeal of the 55 mph National Maximum Speed
	Limit.

		Mr. Baxter claims that the study, the most comprehensive
	study done on speed limits in over 30 years, clearly proves that
	speed limits, as employed in the United States, have virtually no
	influence on driver behavior. "Raise the limit, lower the limit,
	or remove the signs altogether, and traffic speeds do not
	materially change. Furthermore, raising or lowering speed limits
	has no meaningful influence on traffic safety."

		The study, conducted under the supervision of the Federal
	Highway Administration, monitored and measured driver response to
	speed limit manipulations at 247 locations around the United
	States. Accident frequency was monitored at the same time.
	"These were not abstract computer simulations or esoteric 
	mathematical exercises; these were first-hand, on-the-ground,
	cause and effect comparisons."

		"We were not surprised by the finding that most speed limits
	are grossly underposted in relation to existing vehicle speeds
	and roadway design capabilities. Underposting by 10-15 mph is
	the rule rather than the exception," said the NMA's President.

		"This research effort was completed two years ago, submitted
	for rigorous peer review, and sent off to the Transportation
	Research Board to be forgotten and ignored. These were not the
	kinds of results that the safety establishment, insurance
	industry, or enforcement agencies wanted publicized. They fly in
	the face of 40 years of 'speed kills' propaganda and call serious
	question to traffic enforcement priorities. Millions of
	motorists, every year, suffer financial losses, totaling
	billions of dollars, as a result of unwarranted tickets and
	wasted time related to irrationally underposted speed limits.
	This study proves that point. Small wonder they tried to bury
	it."

				***END***

	The National Motorists Association (NMA) was established in 1982
	to represent the interests and rights of American motorists. It
	operates at the national level and through a system of state chapters.
	The NMA is solely supported through the contributions of individuals,
	families, and small businesses. For general information, call
	608/849-6000; for membership information, call 1-800-882-2785.

-- 
Lothar Dahlmeyer         			ldahlmey@aoc.nrao.edu
Notorius Radium Astrology Obscuratory		http://info.aoc.nrao.edu/
My being paranoid doesn't prove they're not after me!

From kevina  Tue May 16 15:27:51 1995
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From: bob_benson@qmail.ssc.gov (Bob Benson)
Subject: Re: !Speed Limits Irrelevant!
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In article <3p8lpi$6qa@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>, ldahlmey@newshost.aoc.nrao.edu
(Cpt. Zoom) wrote:

>         National Motorists Association
>         6678 Pertzborn Road, Dane, Wisconsin 53529      608/849-6000
> 
> 
>         For Immediate Release                   Media Contact:
> 
>         June 1, 1995                            James J. Baxter

Has NMA succeeded in moving fast enough that they can get something on the
net 17 days before writing it?

Bob Benson
bob_benson@qmail.ssc.gov

From kevina  Sun May 21 17:06:41 1995
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From: dc@panix.com (David W. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: !Speed Limits Irrelevant!
Date: 21 May 1995 01:00:26 -0400
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>>>>> On Tue, 16 May 1995 18:01:35 GMT, bob_benson@qmail.ssc.gov (Bob Benson) said:

 >> National Motorists Association 6678 Pertzborn Road, Dane, Wisconsin
 >> 53529 608/849-6000
 >> 
 >> 
 >> For Immediate Release Media Contact:
 >> 
 >> June 1, 1995 James J. Baxter
 Bob>  Has NMA succeeded in moving fast enough that they can get something
 Bob> on the net 17 days before writing it?
 Bob> 
 Bob> Bob Benson bob_benson@qmail.ssc.gov

Yes.
Actually, their public campaign will be launched on June 1;
They have already assemble much of the related literature,
and have prepared some media materials, such as this press release.
-- 
David Crawford    dc@panix.com 




From kevina  Sat Jun 17 20:38:20 1995
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From: sorandi@wam.umd.edu (Persepolis)
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: 16 Jun 1995 19:35:42 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland College Park
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russotto@wanda.pond.com wrote:
: }by saying 'what if the truck had a blow-out'?  Safe distance or not at 55
: }a 10 ton truck will probably do less damage than at 75.

: It will make absolutely no difference to you if the truck hits you at
: 55mph or 75mph.  It will probably make a difference to the fifth or
: sixth car in front of you, though.  Of course, the safe distance is
: greater at 75mph than at 55mph.  

Actually this does make a difference as the greater mass and speed of the
truck will make your average bruise and sprain into spine compression
injuries and brain hemorages.  I know that you may feel this will never
happen to you, and we all hope it wont happen to any of us contrary to
some insensitive comments I have seen regarding 'natural selection'- but if 
and when it does in addition to the persons involved we will all pay for it
through our insurance premiums- you see, its a small planet we live on.

: }[BTW. From your message I take that you are a proponent of a higher and
: }homogenous speed limit- but you never said what the # should be- I 
: }would like to know of your opinion on what this limit should be set at]

: I personally would prefer most interstates to be unlimited.  But if you

One thing you fail to address is the point you originally made (and if
I recalled this incorrectly please correct me) which was cars getting
passed on the right.  No matter how fast you will be travelling in an
unlimited speed limit zone there will always be someone who will be
driving faster than you and pass you on the right- and this brings us
full circle back to the original problem:  The problem IMHO isnt really the
limit on how fast you are allowed to go but how slow you are allowed to go
-it is an issue of bottlenecks. 



From kevina  Sun Jun 18 02:16:43 1995
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From: johnk@opel.secondsource.com (John Kennedy)
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: 17 Jun 1995 23:24:19 -0400
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In article <3rskhl$h22@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> sorandi@wam.umd.edu (Persepolis) writes:
>John Kennedy (johnk@opel.secondsource.com) wrote:
>: the "energy crisis", as it was called, was real.  Nixon wanted to go with
>: As the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) starting realizing that
>: premiums could be raised for everyone breaking this artifically low speed
>: limit, the issue was carefully spun into one of safety and lives.
>
>This is another good point, but it leans more towards an insurance &
>State conspiracy theory-  I can see the point you are making clearly and
>being a kind of a paranoid individual myself I can see merit in this- BUT
>I can counter this with the fact that someone who drives 55 in a school
>zone and gets a ticket & a nice insurance hike for it would be just as
>likely to collide with a child and leave the insurance company libel for

True.  I am strongly in favor of strict enforcement of posted limits in school
zones, and other places where the limit is for a reason.  What I was addressing
previously was the National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL) that was put into place
in 1974.  This action told the states that their engineers could not post
a speed limit in excess of 55 mph regardless of conditions.  As far as the
insurance-state conspiracy goes, the IIHS is a _very_ strong lobby.  I
attended many a hearing in the Maryland state house re: raising Maryland's
speed limits and observed the lobbyists prevailing year after year.  They
don't seem to have the grip on Glendenning they had on Schaefer, do they?


-- 
John Kennedy                     johnk@secondsource.com 
Second Source, Inc.
Annapolis, MD

From kevina  Sun Jun 18 18:43:01 1995
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From: russotto@wanda.pond.com
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: 14 Jun 1995 14:21:30 -0400
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In article <3rlbph$hsh@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>,
Persepolis <sorandi@wam.umd.edu> wrote:

}I have seen several references to the autobahn in various posts and articles,
}but I personally feel that such a system would be impossible to port over to
}the US for the following reasons:
}	1: vehicle density on roads-- in europe cars are more equated as a

But when the vehicle density gets too great, speed limits become
irrelevant anyway, as traffic becomes congestion-limited.

}I think that on the surface many people and yourself may desire highways with
}unlimited speed limits, but I know that deep down many of such view know
}that this is a blessing in disguise and will create all sorts of new problems.

I tend to doubt things would change much at all.  Some of the people
driving 60 or 65mph specifically to avoid a ticket would speed up to a
speed they are comfortable with, but I don't think we'd create a whole
new class of maniacs.

A speed limit of 55 probably has less effect on people's actual speeds
than a speed limit of, say, 70mph would.  A speed limit in the
ballpark of speeds people would actually like to drive would probably
be acceptable to those who like to drive slightly faster, whereas
nobody likes 55mph. 

From kevina  Mon Jun 19 20:49:06 1995
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From: charles.day@gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Day)
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: 19 Jun 1995 15:02:29 GMT
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In article <3rn9ba$e5j@wanda.pond.com>, russotto@wanda.pond.com wrote:

> 
> A speed limit of 55 probably has less effect on people's actual speeds
> than a speed limit of, say, 70mph would.  A speed limit in the
> ballpark of speeds people would actually like to drive would probably
> be acceptable to those who like to drive slightly faster, whereas
> nobody likes 55mph. 

The speed limit on major roads in the UK is 70 mph. This doesn't seem to
cause too much trouble. However, given the higher limit, it does mean 
that the police feel justified in pulling you over if you're driving at
80 mph.  There's also less opposition (than in the US) to unmanned speed
traps because the speed limit is not unreasonably low.

I really don't see why the speed limit in the US can't be a higher. The
current, low limit is not only over-cautious, it also encourages contempt
for the law, since driving at 65 mph, say, is not perceived as a crime.

Charles

From kevina  Mon Jun 19 20:51:16 1995
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From: sorandi@wam.umd.edu (Persepolis)
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: 18 Jun 1995 23:56:11 GMT
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John Kennedy (johnk@opel.secondsource.com) wrote:
: insurance-state conspiracy goes, the IIHS is a _very_ strong lobby.  I
: attended many a hearing in the Maryland state house re: raising Maryland's
: speed limits and observed the lobbyists prevailing year after year.  They

I'm curious to know what their selling point is-  Are they still lobbying
their cause based on their own 'un-biased' studies?  Also, do you have
any $$$$ amounts of their annual backing from the insurance companies?

: don't seem to have the grip on Glendenning they had on Schaefer, do they?

I really like Glendenning- he _seems_ to actually be more on the public side
rather than big government [and BIG BUSINESS, i.e., Schaefer] was.  Then again
it is early in the term- you never know if one could get desperate for 
re-election and would compromise to the SIGs- none-the-less I hope for the best
with Glendenning as he is making some progress; IMHO- 

From kevina  Mon Jun 19 20:52:31 1995
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From: gregor@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Joe Gregor)
Newsgroups: dc.driving
Subject: Re: Speed Limits Irrelevant?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 11:10:44 GMT
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In Article <3rskhl$h22@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, sorandi@wam.umd.edu
(Persepolis) wrote:

>I can counter this with the fact that someone who drives 55 in a school
>zone and gets a ticket & a nice insurance hike for it would be just as
>likely to collide with a child and leave the insurance company libel for
>$xxx,xxx,xxx[insert additional ,xxx here].  Is it a way for the insurance
>companies to protect themselves or is it to make money off of a racket?

    Since when are school zones located along full blown interstate highways?
Would not the local goverment be responsible in this case (for the idiocy of
placing a school on I-95S)?

        -- Joe


