Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves

From: [email-masked] (Ed Treijs)
Date: 15 Jun 1995 14:23:18 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Indian Outlaw  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>	First, you got more dollars than sense if your bike cost more 
>than $900 and you ride it in the city.  My old Shogun was $400.  I'd 
>never pay that again for a bike.

First, you got more dollars than sense if you drive around in an overpowered,
gas-guzzling '73 SD-455 Trans Am rather than a nice, economical, '86
Chevy Sprint (heavens, NOT the turbo, that's for wild drivers!!).

There is a difference in bicycles.  Just like with cars.  'Nuff said.

>	Second,	define "fault of the driver".  Let me guess, he didn't swerve 
>out of *your precious* way because a car was in the next lane?  I don't know 
>the legalities of this I'd admit, but I'll sacrifice my front right 
>corner before I sacrifice my whole left side by side swiping the car to 
>my left.  When you shits pop up out of nowhere, it's hard to slam on the 
>brakes, but I guess I'm supposed to brake for wheeled minorities, too.
>For every X hundred cars, there's one bicycle out there.  Take a 
>hint pal.  If you want to hang with the big boys and do it on two wheels, 
>get a motorcycle.   

And if the bicycle is following a nice, straight path, a safe distance
out from the curb, and you see the bicyclist from a ways back ('cause
yer not blind, eh), do you still sideswipe 'em?  As another thread
goes, "Doh, there was like a bale of hay in my way, and wouldn't get
out of my way, so I HIT IT!!  YEE HAA!!!"

>Let me re-phrase:  If I can't*** get out of the way of a pathetic jackass 
>whose little bicycle belongs on less traveled residential roads, and I 
>hit him, he'll probably sue me because I'll stop and see if he's okay. 
>Then I will stick his fancy bike where the sun doesn't shine.

Well now, if you insist on driving yer nice old Pontiac on public roads
where it's clearly overpowered and gas-guzzling (rather than on a drag
strip or closed race course where all those "off-road-only" intakes,
cylinder heads, carburetors, and exhaust systems obviously belong)
then we'll just have to crush yer car for a pollution credit.  Seems
fair to me.

>*** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close 
>calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the 
>domain of 3000lb vehicles.

Lessee, I'm getting in shape, the babes can admire my legs (or maybe not,
but, well....), I'm getting a nice tan, all from cycling in to work.
So on the weekend I can don my gold chains and cruise in my '78 gold SE
T/A with all the gas I've saved on the weekdays.  Eh.

Ed (need strong legs for that 11" Centerforce clutch) Treijs

---

From: [email-masked] (Ed Treijs)
Date: 19 Jun 1995 14:24:27 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Indian Outlaw  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> gas-guzzling '73 SD-455 Trans Am rather than a nice, economical, '86{
>	I don't, but I wish I did :)  Anyhow, for the massive power, they 
>were indeed drivable.

True.  Then again, the difference between a $400 bike and a $900 bike can
be almost as great as the gap between the Sprint and the SD.  Well, okay,
that's the gap between the $129 department-store special and the good bike.

>	No I'm not blind.  I see 'em and I slow down and get over.  But I 
>have had them pass me as I drive off from a light.  Hence they can come 
>out from no where.  

Sometimes I pass cars on the right at a light, sometimes not.  Obviously,
if there's some chance of a car wanting to turn right, then I won't pass;
same for buses.  If there's lots of room on the far side of the light,
and either no right turns or a right-turn ramp that I've already passed,
then often enough I'll move up.  If the road is really narrow, and it's
not easy to pass me, then I'll stay back.  Then, of course, I often get
squeezed against the curb by a car that figures it should stop beside
me, not behind me.  Oh well.  Up to about 30-35 km/h (umm, ~20 mph) I
can pretty much accelerate with city traffic.  Or even outaccelerate--
I love it when the sporty driver in the next lane over realizes I'm
pulling ahead; lots of gear grinding and revving of engines occurs as
the car driver tries to salvage her/his self-respect and sexual prowess.  :-)

Bottom line, whenever I'm moving up on the right side, it's like passing
on the right.  Has to be done carefully, and with due regard.  Passing a
car on the right and swerving in front of it is a no-no.  'Course bicyclists
do this.  Right up there with motorist bonehead moves (how many cars did
I see run red lights this weekend??).

>	It's factory bone stock.  Like new.  Burns no oil.  No blow by, etc.
>
>	Not until I stuff you in trunk first :)  

I have to share with Jimmy Hoffa???  Ewww, he SMELLS.

>	You forgot the 8 track of the Bee Gees.  You're slipping man :)

Dunno if my car had an 8 track.  Would be cool, though.  Abba and CB
C/W songs, though.

Ed (convoy!) Treijs

---

From: "Nathan J. Nagel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 10:44:57 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.driving: 14-Jun-95 cyclist hippies was
Re: Dri.. by Indian [email-masked] 
> > I'm a cyclist too and I agree. Then again, when a cyclist messes up he
> > generally only hurts himself, while when someone driving a 3,000 pound
> > car screws up he can kill whole families at once.
>         What about when hesheit "messes up" and causes a car to swerve into 
> another car transporting a whole family????
>  
> > I've been hit 6 times...all were the fault of the car driver (btw-5 out
> > of six of the drivers were female). Average damage to bike was 900 dollars.

    A *real* biker will proabbly be going almost as fast as the flow of
traffic.  I think you can slow down enough to let a car by.  Also, my
bike takes up less than two feet of space on the road, usually there's
more than enough room that I can move over and a car can pass me without
crossing the double yellow, should the need arise.
   
>  
> > PS: I saw Thurlow Rodgers riding today (84 olympic team, 7-11 team,
> > rode in the tour de France, etc.) He was riding partially in the lane
> > (just far enough so cars had to get partially into the next lane to 
> > get around him). That's exactly what you are supposed to do. 
>  
> BRENT VAUGHAN

    Nerve, stupidity, or necessity.... I can afford to ride my bike to
work, all it costs is a little extra pasta.  I just can't afford to keep
my car insured so I can drive 4 miles every day.

later,

Nate

---

From: "Kenneth B. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:23:06 CDT

>my car insured so I can drive 4 miles every day.

That must be some small town you live in.  Most people don't have that
situation.  If you got a real job (not a flame, just a job that paid
you more money to afford to live normally) and moved to a larger city, you'd
be out there with the rest of us trying to swerve out of the way of folks on
bikes slamming on our brakes, leaning on our horns and thinking "Why is that
moron out here in rush hour traffic, putting along and getting in my way?"

Cyclists have their rights, but they're a traffic problem in a congested
thoroughfare.  If you must ride a bike, do so in light traffic on less
travelled roads.

---

From: "Kenneth B. Moore" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:34:29 CDT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Tai Morris) says:
>
>In <[email-masked]>                    u writes:
>[email-masked]
>
>with your mindset, it'll be a matter of time before you hit somebody.
>I hope they, or their family, take you to the cleaners and have you
>locked up for a long time.
>
>it's drivers like you that I don't want my girlfriend commuting to
>work on her bike, though I do so myself.
>
>you're an ass, pure and simple.
>
>Tai
He didn't say that he AIMS for them.  He's trying to say that there are
situations where you can get trapped and you have to get out of SOMEONES way,
so he'll take the option with the least harm to himself.  Natual instinct.
Should he swerve right and risk bumpering a biker or go left and let that
Park Avenue mow down his left flank?  Maybe even creating a chain of hazards?

If you want to get in shape, go to a gym, if you must drive a bike, realize
that you can be a moving traffic menace, and drive on lightly traveled roads
with few cars.

Buy your girlfriend a bus pass (You'd get her a car if you REALLY loved her)
and do the same for yourself.  We car drivers can tolerate bikers once in a
while on residential streets, but we don't like you on our main roads when
you're doing 15mph in a 45 mph zone.

---

From: Indian Outlaw <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:43:51 -0500

> >I wrote: 

> you're an ass, pure and simple.

I appreciate your equally kind words.  Maybe I was a bit rude, but in 
*my* experiences, I have been minding my own business and out of nowhere 
here comes somebody on a bike, giving me no time to react.  Let me say 
again, I get out of the way of cyclists as best as I can.  I'll also 
admit I live where not too many people use bikes to commute, unlike many 
of you guys.  Only in midtown of my city do we have a fair amount of 
cyclists.  I rarely go to that part of town anyway.  In my area, cyclists 
are out for recreation on busy streets.  I have never been involved in an 
car-bike accident.  The few that I have heard of around here were caused 
by the cyclist.  When I say I'll stick the bike . . ., I mean those who 
are at fault.  I have a sincere sympathy for those who can only afford a 
bike for commuting.  (Those who think they are saving the earth by cutting 
out pollution do nothing for me.  Do the math, they are not "making a 
difference."  I see another thread coming!)  Though, it makes sense that 
those who cycle to commute use their brains more than those out for 
recreation.  
	About taking me to the cleaners and putting me behind bars.
I am one a few people in this crappy world who actually has a conscience, 
believe it or not.  You make me sound like one who purposely aims for 
cyclists.  I know a guy who WILL swerve to hit and run if they "are in 
his way."  Take him to the cleaners.  Here again, I was speaking of my 
experiences where I have had to make split second decisions, that 
unraveled me.  It it quite normal to shrugg off a close call with a 
little anger.  

Brent(When I see 'em coming, I get out the way)Vaughan