From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:35:19 1995
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From: etreijs@bnr.ca (Ed Treijs)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: 15 Jun 1995 14:23:18 GMT
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In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.950614173841.27556E-100000@odin.cbu.edu>,
Indian Outlaw  <bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu> wrote:

>	First, you got more dollars than sense if your bike cost more 
>than $900 and you ride it in the city.  My old Shogun was $400.  I'd 
>never pay that again for a bike.

First, you got more dollars than sense if you drive around in an overpowered,
gas-guzzling '73 SD-455 Trans Am rather than a nice, economical, '86
Chevy Sprint (heavens, NOT the turbo, that's for wild drivers!!).

There is a difference in bicycles.  Just like with cars.  'Nuff said.

>	Second,	define "fault of the driver".  Let me guess, he didn't swerve 
>out of *your precious* way because a car was in the next lane?  I don't know 
>the legalities of this I'd admit, but I'll sacrifice my front right 
>corner before I sacrifice my whole left side by side swiping the car to 
>my left.  When you shits pop up out of nowhere, it's hard to slam on the 
>brakes, but I guess I'm supposed to brake for wheeled minorities, too.
>For every X hundred cars, there's one bicycle out there.  Take a 
>hint pal.  If you want to hang with the big boys and do it on two wheels, 
>get a motorcycle.   

And if the bicycle is following a nice, straight path, a safe distance
out from the curb, and you see the bicyclist from a ways back ('cause
yer not blind, eh), do you still sideswipe 'em?  As another thread
goes, "Doh, there was like a bale of hay in my way, and wouldn't get
out of my way, so I HIT IT!!  YEE HAA!!!"

>Let me re-phrase:  If I can't*** get out of the way of a pathetic jackass 
>whose little bicycle belongs on less traveled residential roads, and I 
>hit him, he'll probably sue me because I'll stop and see if he's okay. 
>Then I will stick his fancy bike where the sun doesn't shine.

Well now, if you insist on driving yer nice old Pontiac on public roads
where it's clearly overpowered and gas-guzzling (rather than on a drag
strip or closed race course where all those "off-road-only" intakes,
cylinder heads, carburetors, and exhaust systems obviously belong)
then we'll just have to crush yer car for a pollution credit.  Seems
fair to me.

>*** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close 
>calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the 
>domain of 3000lb vehicles.

Lessee, I'm getting in shape, the babes can admire my legs (or maybe not,
but, well....), I'm getting a nice tan, all from cycling in to work.
So on the weekend I can don my gold chains and cruise in my '78 gold SE
T/A with all the gas I've saved on the weekdays.  Eh.

Ed (need strong legs for that 11" Centerforce clutch) Treijs

From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:37:50 1995
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From: etreijs@bnr.ca (Ed Treijs)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: 19 Jun 1995 14:24:27 GMT
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In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.950616140256.7419A-100000@odin.cbu.edu>,
Indian Outlaw  <bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu> wrote:

>> First, you got more dollars than sense if you drive around in an overpowered,
>> gas-guzzling '73 SD-455 Trans Am rather than a nice, economical, '86{
>	I don't, but I wish I did :)  Anyhow, for the massive power, they 
>were indeed drivable.

True.  Then again, the difference between a $400 bike and a $900 bike can
be almost as great as the gap between the Sprint and the SD.  Well, okay,
that's the gap between the $129 department-store special and the good bike.

>	No I'm not blind.  I see 'em and I slow down and get over.  But I 
>have had them pass me as I drive off from a light.  Hence they can come 
>out from no where.  

Sometimes I pass cars on the right at a light, sometimes not.  Obviously,
if there's some chance of a car wanting to turn right, then I won't pass;
same for buses.  If there's lots of room on the far side of the light,
and either no right turns or a right-turn ramp that I've already passed,
then often enough I'll move up.  If the road is really narrow, and it's
not easy to pass me, then I'll stay back.  Then, of course, I often get
squeezed against the curb by a car that figures it should stop beside
me, not behind me.  Oh well.  Up to about 30-35 km/h (umm, ~20 mph) I
can pretty much accelerate with city traffic.  Or even outaccelerate--
I love it when the sporty driver in the next lane over realizes I'm
pulling ahead; lots of gear grinding and revving of engines occurs as
the car driver tries to salvage her/his self-respect and sexual prowess.  :-)

Bottom line, whenever I'm moving up on the right side, it's like passing
on the right.  Has to be done carefully, and with due regard.  Passing a
car on the right and swerving in front of it is a no-no.  'Course bicyclists
do this.  Right up there with motorist bonehead moves (how many cars did
I see run red lights this weekend??).

>	It's factory bone stock.  Like new.  Burns no oil.  No blow by, etc.
>
>> then we'll just have to crush yer car for a pollution credit.  Seems
>> fair to me.
>	Not until I stuff you in trunk first :)  

I have to share with Jimmy Hoffa???  Ewww, he SMELLS.

>> Ed (need strong legs for that 11" Centerforce clutch) Treijs
>	You forgot the 8 track of the Bee Gees.  You're slipping man :)

Dunno if my car had an 8 track.  Would be cool, though.  Abba and CB
C/W songs, though.

Ed (convoy!) Treijs

From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:40:06 1995
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From: "Nathan J. Nagel" <nn22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 10:44:57 -0400
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Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.driving: 14-Jun-95 cyclist hippies was
Re: Dri.. by Indian Outlaw@odin.cbu.e 
> > I'm a cyclist too and I agree. Then again, when a cyclist messes up he
> > generally only hurts himself, while when someone driving a 3,000 pound
> > car screws up he can kill whole families at once.
>         What about when hesheit "messes up" and causes a car to swerve into 
> another car transporting a whole family????
>  
> > I've been hit 6 times...all were the fault of the car driver (btw-5 out
> > of six of the drivers were female). Average damage to bike was 900 dollars.
>         First, you got more dollars than sense if your bike cost more 
> than $900 and you ride it in the city.  My old Shogun was $400.  I'd 
> never pay that again for a bike.
>         Second, define "fault of the driver".  Let me guess, he didn't
swerve 
>  
> out of *your precious* way because a car was in the next lane?  I don't know 
> the legalities of this I'd admit, but I'll sacrifice my front right 
> corner before I sacrifice my whole left side by side swiping the car to 
> my left.  When you shits pop up out of nowhere, it's hard to slam on the 
> brakes, but I guess I'm supposed to brake for wheeled minorities, too.
> For every X hundred cars, there's one bicycle out there.  Take a 
> hint pal.  If you want to hang with the big boys and do it on two wheels, 
> get a motorcycle.

    A *real* biker will proabbly be going almost as fast as the flow of
traffic.  I think you can slow down enough to let a car by.  Also, my
bike takes up less than two feet of space on the road, usually there's
more than enough room that I can move over and a car can pass me without
crossing the double yellow, should the need arise.
   
>  
> > PS: I saw Thurlow Rodgers riding today (84 olympic team, 7-11 team,
> > rode in the tour de France, etc.) He was riding partially in the lane
> > (just far enough so cars had to get partially into the next lane to 
> > get around him). That's exactly what you are supposed to do. 
>  
> Let me re-phrase:  If I can't*** get out of the way of a pathetic jackass 
> whose little bicycle belongs on less traveled residential roads, and I 
> hit him, he'll probably sue me because I'll stop and see if he's okay. 
> Then I will stick his fancy bike where the sun doesn't shine.
>  
> *** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close 
> calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the 
> domain of 3000lb vehicles.
>  
> BRENT VAUGHAN

    Nerve, stupidity, or necessity.... I can afford to ride my bike to
work, all it costs is a little extra pasta.  I just can't afford to keep
my car insured so I can drive 4 miles every day.

later,

Nate

From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:41:05 1995
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:23:06 CDT
From: "Kenneth B. Moore" <U20987@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
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In article <4js4RdG00YUrI8QQxA@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Nathan J. Nagel" <nn22+@andrew.cmu.edu> says:
>
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.driving: 14-Jun-95 cyclist hippies was
>Re: Dri.. by Indian Outlaw@odin.cbu.e
>> > I'm a cyclist too and I agree. Then again, when a cyclist messes up he
>> > generally only hurts himself, while when someone driving a 3,000 pound
>> > car screws up he can kill whole families at once.
>>         What about when hesheit "messes up" and causes a car to swerve into
>> another car transporting a whole family????
>>
>> > I've been hit 6 times...all were the fault of the car driver (btw-5 out
>> > of six of the drivers were female). Average damage to bike was 900
>dollars.
>>         First, you got more dollars than sense if your bike cost more
>> than $900 and you ride it in the city.  My old Shogun was $400.  I'd
>> never pay that again for a bike.
>>         Second, define "fault of the driver".  Let me guess, he didn't
>swerve
>>
>> out of *your precious* way because a car was in the next lane?  I don't know
>> the legalities of this I'd admit, but I'll sacrifice my front right
>> corner before I sacrifice my whole left side by side swiping the car to
>> my left.  When you shits pop up out of nowhere, it's hard to slam on the
>> brakes, but I guess I'm supposed to brake for wheeled minorities, too.
>> For every X hundred cars, there's one bicycle out there.  Take a
>> hint pal.  If you want to hang with the big boys and do it on two wheels,
>> get a motorcycle.
>
>    A *real* biker will proabbly be going almost as fast as the flow of
>traffic.  I think you can slow down enough to let a car by.  Also, my
>bike takes up less than two feet of space on the road, usually there's
>more than enough room that I can move over and a car can pass me without
>crossing the double yellow, should the need arise.
>
>>
>> > PS: I saw Thurlow Rodgers riding today (84 olympic team, 7-11 team,
>> > rode in the tour de France, etc.) He was riding partially in the lane
>> > (just far enough so cars had to get partially into the next lane to
>> > get around him). That's exactly what you are supposed to do.
>>
>> Let me re-phrase:  If I can't*** get out of the way of a pathetic jackass
>> whose little bicycle belongs on less traveled residential roads, and I
>> hit him, he'll probably sue me because I'll stop and see if he's okay.
>> Then I will stick his fancy bike where the sun doesn't shine.
>>
>> *** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close
>> calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the
>> domain of 3000lb vehicles.
>>
>> BRENT VAUGHAN
>
>    Nerve, stupidity, or necessity.... I can afford to ride my bike to
>work, all it costs is a little extra pasta.  I just can't afford to keep
>my car insured so I can drive 4 miles every day.
>
>later,

That must be some small town you live in.  Most people don't have that
situation.  If you got a real job (not a flame, just a job that paid
you more money to afford to live normally) and moved to a larger city, you'd
be out there with the rest of us trying to swerve out of the way of folks on
bikes slamming on our brakes, leaning on our horns and thinking "Why is that
moron out here in rush hour traffic, putting along and getting in my way?"

Cyclists have their rights, but they're a traffic problem in a congested
thoroughfare.  If you must ride a bike, do so in light traffic on less
travelled roads.

>Nate

From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:43:01 1995
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Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:34:29 CDT
From: "Kenneth B. Moore" <U20987@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Message-ID: <95167.143430U20987@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
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In article <3rpjfq$bck@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, TAI@PHYSICS.UTEXAS.EDU (Tai Morris) says:
>
>In <Pine.OSF.3.91.950614173841.27556E-100000@odin.cbu.edu>                    u writes:
>bvaughan@odin.cbu.ed
>
>> Let me re-phrase:  If I can't*** get out of the way of a pathetic jackass
>> whose little bicycle belongs on less traveled residential roads, and I
>> hit him, he'll probably sue me because I'll stop and see if he's okay.
>> Then I will stick his fancy bike where the sun doesn't shine.
>>
>> *** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close
>> calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the
>> domain of 3000lb vehicles.
>>
>> BRENT VAUGHAN
>
>with your mindset, it'll be a matter of time before you hit somebody.
>I hope they, or their family, take you to the cleaners and have you
>locked up for a long time.
>
>it's drivers like you that I don't want my girlfriend commuting to
>work on her bike, though I do so myself.
>
>you're an ass, pure and simple.
>
>Tai
He didn't say that he AIMS for them.  He's trying to say that there are
situations where you can get trapped and you have to get out of SOMEONES way,
so he'll take the option with the least harm to himself.  Natual instinct.
Should he swerve right and risk bumpering a biker or go left and let that
Park Avenue mow down his left flank?  Maybe even creating a chain of hazards?

If you want to get in shape, go to a gym, if you must drive a bike, realize
that you can be a moving traffic menace, and drive on lightly traveled roads
with few cars.

Buy your girlfriend a bus pass (You'd get her a car if you REALLY loved her)
and do the same for yourself.  We car drivers can tolerate bikers once in a
while on residential streets, but we don't like you on our main roads when
you're doing 15mph in a 45 mph zone.


From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:45:39 1995
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950616141936.7419B-100000@odin.cbu.edu>
From: Indian Outlaw <bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:43:51 -0500
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> >I wrote: 
> > *** I do get out of the way when I can.  I alike most have had close 
> > calls.  It takes a lot of nerve or *stupidity* to take a bicycle into the 
> > domain of 3000lb vehicles.
> > 
On 15 Jun 1995, Tai Morris wrote:

> with your mindset, it'll be a matter of time before you hit somebody. 
> I hope they, or their family, take you to the cleaners and have you 
> locked up for a long time.
> 
> it's drivers like you that I don't want my girlfriend commuting to 
> work on her bike, though I do so myself.
> 
> you're an ass, pure and simple.

I appreciate your equally kind words.  Maybe I was a bit rude, but in 
*my* experiences, I have been minding my own business and out of nowhere 
here comes somebody on a bike, giving me no time to react.  Let me say 
again, I get out of the way of cyclists as best as I can.  I'll also 
admit I live where not too many people use bikes to commute, unlike many 
of you guys.  Only in midtown of my city do we have a fair amount of 
cyclists.  I rarely go to that part of town anyway.  In my area, cyclists 
are out for recreation on busy streets.  I have never been involved in an 
car-bike accident.  The few that I have heard of around here were caused 
by the cyclist.  When I say I'll stick the bike . . ., I mean those who 
are at fault.  I have a sincere sympathy for those who can only afford a 
bike for commuting.  (Those who think they are saving the earth by cutting 
out pollution do nothing for me.  Do the math, they are not "making a 
difference."  I see another thread coming!)  Though, it makes sense that 
those who cycle to commute use their brains more than those out for 
recreation.  
	About taking me to the cleaners and putting me behind bars.
I am one a few people in this crappy world who actually has a conscience, 
believe it or not.  You make me sound like one who purposely aims for 
cyclists.  I know a guy who WILL swerve to hit and run if they "are in 
his way."  Take him to the cleaners.  Here again, I was speaking of my 
experiences where I have had to make split second decisions, that 
unraveled me.  It it quite normal to shrugg off a close call with a 
little anger.  

Brent(When I see 'em coming, I get out the way)Vaughan


From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:53:01 1995
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From: bohlerml@aa.wpafb.af.mil (Michael L. Bohler)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: 16 Jun 1995 09:51:11 -0500
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In Article 45370 of rec.autos.driving, Indian Outlaw 
<bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu> wrote:
>> If you are caused to swerve into the path of an on-
>> coming car then you have already broken the law. 

>	That's why I'll stick the bike where the sun don't shine.
>Like I said, it takes nerve to ride on busy streets.  Whenever I see a 
>bike in a busy area, it's a recreational trip, not a commute to school or 
>work.  For recreation, stay in residential areas.

Sounds like you're living with your head where the sun don't
shine.  How do you know the purpose of everyones bicycle trips?
I don't question the purpose of your automobile trip.  If you saw 
me on my bicycle, how would you know if I am on my
way to work, to the store, or to the park?  What gives you the
authority to decide when and where people ride?

>> I think you need to get reaquainted 
>> with the vehicle laws in your area and learn your 
>> responsibilities as a motorist.  As a cyclist, I know mine.

>	The laws may aid cyclists, but they are a crock.  If I see one 
>ahead of me, I will slow down and nearly stop and then go around.  I have 

I disagree with you about the laws, but I appreciate your patience.

>Streets were intended for motor vehicles.  Cyclists should look at them 
>as priviledges.  Anyway, you're comparing apples to oranges.
>
>Later,
>BrenT Vaughan

Wrong.  Streets are intended for many types of vehicles, motorized
and non-motorized.  Cars, bikes, horse-and-buggys and pedestrians, to
name a few, are all entitled to use one road or another.  And each
user is priviledged to use the road.  Bicycles were here long before
cars and they'll be around long after cars are gone.  Next time you 
need to go from point A to point B use a bicycle and tell me if your
attitude changes.

I have enough to worry about on my bicycle without people in cars with
selfish attitudes who feel that they have to justify their aggressive
behavior with arguements like yours.

From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:53:03 1995
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950616154511.7419J-100000@odin.cbu.edu>
From: Indian Outlaw <bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:55:09 -0500
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> Sounds like you're living with your head where the sun don't
> shine.  How do you know the purpose of everyones bicycle trips?
> I don't question the purpose of your automobile trip.  If you saw 
> me on my bicycle, how would you know if I am on my
> way to work, to the store, or to the park?  What gives you the
> authority to decide when and where people ride?
	Well, spandex shorts don't look too professional to me.  Very 
clean expensive bikes also don't look like commuters(ie brand new yuppie 
mountian bikes)(I'm not being sarcastic no matter how bad I this comes off.)
I know some may change clothes before trekking from here to there.  Add 
in weekends too.  How many commutes to work on Saturday whereing spandex?
> 
> I disagree with you about the laws, but I appreciate your patience.
> name a few, are all entitled to use one road or another.  And each
> user is priviledged to use the road.  Bicycles were here long before
> cars and they'll be around long after cars are gone.  Next time you 
> need to go from point A to point B use a bicycle and tell me if your
> attitude changes.
	Never.  You're living in a fog of hysteria.  

> 
> I have enough to worry about on my bicycle without people in cars with
> selfish attitudes who feel that they have to justify their aggressive
> behavior with arguements like yours.

I'm not "agressive".  Take the time to see my other replies on this 
thread.  If you still think I'm sooo horrible then let me know.

Brent Vaughan



From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:54:18 1995
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Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950616154511.7419J-100000@odin.cbu.edu>
From: Indian Outlaw <bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:55:09 -0500
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Organization: Christian Brothers University
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> Sounds like you're living with your head where the sun don't
> shine.  How do you know the purpose of everyones bicycle trips?
> I don't question the purpose of your automobile trip.  If you saw 
> me on my bicycle, how would you know if I am on my
> way to work, to the store, or to the park?  What gives you the
> authority to decide when and where people ride?
	Well, spandex shorts don't look too professional to me.  Very 
clean expensive bikes also don't look like commuters(ie brand new yuppie 
mountian bikes)(I'm not being sarcastic no matter how bad I this comes off.)
I know some may change clothes before trekking from here to there.  Add 
in weekends too.  How many commutes to work on Saturday whereing spandex?
> 
> I disagree with you about the laws, but I appreciate your patience.
> name a few, are all entitled to use one road or another.  And each
> user is priviledged to use the road.  Bicycles were here long before
> cars and they'll be around long after cars are gone.  Next time you 
> need to go from point A to point B use a bicycle and tell me if your
> attitude changes.
	Never.  You're living in a fog of hysteria.  

> 
> I have enough to worry about on my bicycle without people in cars with
> selfish attitudes who feel that they have to justify their aggressive
> behavior with arguements like yours.

I'm not "agressive".  Take the time to see my other replies on this 
thread.  If you still think I'm sooo horrible then let me know.

Brent Vaughan



From kevina  Tue Jun 20 20:54:17 1995
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From: bohlerml@aa.wpafb.af.mil (Michael L. Bohler)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: 16 Jun 1995 09:51:11 -0500
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In Article 45370 of rec.autos.driving, Indian Outlaw 
<bvaughan@odin.cbu.edu> wrote:
>> If you are caused to swerve into the path of an on-
>> coming car then you have already broken the law. 

>	That's why I'll stick the bike where the sun don't shine.
>Like I said, it takes nerve to ride on busy streets.  Whenever I see a 
>bike in a busy area, it's a recreational trip, not a commute to school or 
>work.  For recreation, stay in residential areas.

Sounds like you're living with your head where the sun don't
shine.  How do you know the purpose of everyones bicycle trips?
I don't question the purpose of your automobile trip.  If you saw 
me on my bicycle, how would you know if I am on my
way to work, to the store, or to the park?  What gives you the
authority to decide when and where people ride?

>> I think you need to get reaquainted 
>> with the vehicle laws in your area and learn your 
>> responsibilities as a motorist.  As a cyclist, I know mine.

>	The laws may aid cyclists, but they are a crock.  If I see one 
>ahead of me, I will slow down and nearly stop and then go around.  I have 

I disagree with you about the laws, but I appreciate your patience.

>Streets were intended for motor vehicles.  Cyclists should look at them 
>as priviledges.  Anyway, you're comparing apples to oranges.
>
>Later,
>BrenT Vaughan

Wrong.  Streets are intended for many types of vehicles, motorized
and non-motorized.  Cars, bikes, horse-and-buggys and pedestrians, to
name a few, are all entitled to use one road or another.  And each
user is priviledged to use the road.  Bicycles were here long before
cars and they'll be around long after cars are gone.  Next time you 
need to go from point A to point B use a bicycle and tell me if your
attitude changes.

I have enough to worry about on my bicycle without people in cars with
selfish attitudes who feel that they have to justify their aggressive
behavior with arguements like yours.

From kevina  Wed Jun 21 03:31:39 1995
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From: bohlerml@aa.wpafb.af.mil (Michael L. Bohler)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: cyclist hippies was Re: Driving Pet Peeves
Date: 20 Jun 1995 06:29:35 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
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In my past life I used to get annoyed at any comment that was anti-
bicycling.  While some of the stuff in this news group still 
ticks me off, I am trying to listen to the opinions that don't come
from any of the bicycling newsgroups.  I think the mental picture
that I have of the typical rec.autos.driving reader may a little
off.  How do you picture the typical bicyclist?

I ask to be treated like a vehicle and thus I try to act
like a vehcicle.  Therefore, I do keep my place in line with other
cars at lights and stop signs, etc...  And while I used to get pissed 
when people said anything negative about bikes, I now agree
with you when I hear about bikes passing on the right.  I used
to pass on the right myself, quit and smiled when I saw others 
do it, and now get pissed when I see it because of the image it 
gives.  Plus its unsafe.  Ironically, today while waiting on my
bike to go straight through an intersection, a car in the right-
turn-only lane cut over in front of me, thus passing _me_ on
the right.  Motorists are not exempt from doing the same dumb
things that bikers do.

In many European cities cars and bikes co-exist and its no big deal.
In time it should happen here too.

mb

