From kevina  Fri Nov 10 18:07:47 1995
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From: john@ns.gats.hampton.va.us (John Burton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,va.general,dc.driving,chv.general
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving,va.general,dc.driving,chv.general
Date: 08 Nov 1995 15:22:48 GMT
Organization: GATS, Inc.
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In article <47lnea$2lm@dg-rtp.dg.com> goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) writes:

   John Burton (john@ns.gats.hampton.va.us) wrote:
   : As far as radar detectors...The problem isn't the device, its people
   : (like me) cruising down the road at 65-70mph getting literally "blown
   : off the road" by trucks, buses, and cars that feel 80mph is a
   : "reasonable" speed. 
   ...
   : The key is, you are welcome to go to hell in your own handbasket, but
   : doing so on the highway makes it much more likely that you will take
   : me and/or my family with you. You want to speed, go ahead, just don't
   : do it when I'm on the road...

   Why do you reserve for yourself the right to speed (remember, you
   admit to "crusing down the road at 65-70 mph"), but want to deny it
   to others?  Oh, I see, you're one of those hypocritical pro-55 left
   lane hog assholes.  Sorry to intrude on your hell-bound handbasket.

Sorry to burst your bubble Bob, but the speed limit on the Interstate
near my house *is* 65mph, as it is in *many* parts of the State of
Virginia. Perhaps you should be aware of the laws in a state before
you start flaming someone and exposing your ignorance...

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
   goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
   +1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA

John
-- 
John Burton                      GATS, Inc.  
j.c.burton@gats.hampton.va.us    28 Research Drive
j.c.burton@larc.nasa.gov         Hampton, VA 23666
(804) 865-7491 (voice)           (804) 865-1021 (fax)
                    

From kevina  Fri Nov 10 18:08:37 1995
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From: john@ns.gats.hampton.va.us (John Burton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,va.general,dc.driving,chv.general
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Date: 08 Nov 1995 15:52:45 GMT
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In article <47nr1u$2rg@news.infi.net> JGB-9357 <jgb9357@infi.net> writes:

   john@ns.gats.hampton.va.us (John Burton) wrote:

   >Sorry, even that doesn't work (even though its the law :-). As I
   >mentioned in the rest of my post (which you didn't include), the bow
   >wave and wake of a large truck or bus moving at a "reasonable" speed
   >of 75mph can cause a smaller car or motorcycle to lose control. Even
   >the right lane is not safe from the aggressive driver in a
   >hurry. 

   Hence the need for awareness on the road.  Good point and I don't 
   have a reply for that yet.  Give me some time to think about it.

Driving a 650cc motorcycle on an interstate can do wonders for
improving your awareness of the road...bad weather is *really* a trip!

   >People changing lanes to avoid the speeder tend to cause a
   >significant percentage accidents... 

   Hmmmmmm......where is this from?

Actually I don't have the stats, just from personal observation from
many years of highway driving in small cars & motorcycles...its
amazing how many people focus on the speeder coming up behind them and
forget about the little car/motorcycle next to them...

   I'm sure you understand, just because I *say* shear layers don't 
   mix well at supersonic speeds, you're not going to believe me 
   without some referring docs.

Unless I've had experience in fluid dynmaics and compressible fluid
flow...:-)

John


-- 
John Burton                      GATS, Inc.  
j.c.burton@gats.hampton.va.us    28 Research Drive
j.c.burton@larc.nasa.gov         Hampton, VA 23666
(804) 865-7491 (voice)           (804) 865-1021 (fax)
                    

From kevina  Fri Nov 10 18:23:13 1995
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From: chess@widomaker.com (Alison Rosenstengel)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,va.general,dc.driving,chv.general
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Date: 2 Nov 1995 17:27:20 -0500
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>Matthew T. Russotto (russotto@wanda.pond.com) wrote:
>: Contrary to popular belief, Virginia IS in the United States.  And if a cop
>: asks you how fast you are going or whether or not you were using a
>: radar detector, you are under absolutely no obligation to answer.  
>: My answer would probably be something like "Are radar detectors
>: illegal in this state?" I don't know whether lying can get you into
>: legal trouble-- I tend to doubt that telling a cop that you haven't
>: committed a crime when you, in fact, have can be interpreted as
>: obstruction of justice.  It's not the same as making false statements
>: under oath or on a signed police report.

Here's an analogy, however:  If you see a criminal running away to the 
east, and a policeman comes by and asks which way the criminal went, it's 
not obstruction of justice to say, "I don't know."  I understand, 
however, that it *is* obstruction of justice to say, "He went west."

I don't see why you can't just suck it up and not use the radar 
detector.  It's *the law* and the people of the state like the law.



From kevina  Fri Nov 10 18:24:07 1995
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From: michael@maine.maine.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,va.general,dc.driving,chv.general
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:14:39 EST
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In article <47bgk8$qkt@wilma.widomaker.com>, chess@widomaker.com said:
>I don't see why you can't just suck it up and not use the radar 
>detector.  It's *the law* and the people of the state like the law.

Sez you. I live in the state, and I definitely do not like the law. Besides,
just because something is illegal does not make it wrong. Was drinking a
glass of beer or wine suddenly wrong simply because of Prohibition? Does
oral sex suddenly become depraved and immoral because you cross a state line
from where it is legal to where it is outlawed (which it is in Virginia).

The radar detector ban is a bad law. It's only purpose is to reinforce the
speed limits, which by and large are also bad laws. Speed limits in theory
are fine. In practice, they are an unjustified imposition on the motoring
public.

Michael Johnson
Relay Technology, Inc.
The opinions stated above are my own and not necessarily shared by Relay Technology


From kevina  Fri Nov 10 19:48:40 1995
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From: "NMA [Bob M]" <nma@genie.geis.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,dc.driving
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Date: 8 Nov 1995 22:26:08 GMT
Organization: National Motorists Association
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Erik Velapoldi <erik@smart.net> wrote:

>On a more serious note:  do you ever wonder if companies that manufature
>radar detectors support low speed limits?  I mean, if lawmakers
>actually gained some sense and set speed limits more sensibly (i.e.higher), 
>more people would drive at the limit and wouldn't get tickets.  Those companies
>would be out of busines.
>
>erik
>erik@smart.net
>

The small-town speed trap will still be in fashion since lawmakers are 
not likely to believe that higher limits do not compromise safety (as 
true as it is.)  

We have somewhat regular contact with the people at RADAR, and haven't 
seen anything suggesting that they support low limits.  Understandable 
that they might, but I've never seen any evidence of that.

-- 
National Motorists Association      	Join the NMA!
nma@genie.geis.com                  	$29 a year.
http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/nma/    	Sign up online.



From kevina  Fri Nov 10 19:49:30 1995
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From: "Antonio S. Esporma" <tony>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,dc.driving
Subject: Re: What do I do with my Radar Detector while in Virginia?
Date: 8 Nov 1995 22:45:35 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena
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todd@kastle.com (Todd A. Scalzott) wrote:
>
>In article <47loto$l2k@lo-fan.jpl.nasa.gov> "Antonio S. Esporma" <tony>
>writes:
>
<snip>

>> So what?  Are you telling me that because some scumbag politicians
>> decide to trample on you civil rights and pass some bogus laws, you
>> obey them blindly?  Look, in the Evil Empire (aka the USSR)
>> typewriters were illegal and controlled, perhaps you should turn
>> yourself into the extant Soviet authorities because you use a word
>> processor.
>
>Yup, I sure do.  If you don't like the law, legally petition to have
>it changed.  Don't break it while it still stands.  This should apply
>to all laws, not just ones that you deem a nuisance or too trivial to
>have an impact on others.  
>
>> Perhaps if the polity would pass logical and just laws in all areas of 
>> jurisprudence we wouldn't need radar detectors at all?
>> 
>
>See the above. :)
>
>
Todd:

As a matter of fact I have sent letters and e-mail to our 'elected'
politicians but it seems to get nowhere.  At least I feel better.

On one occasion, I entered a plea of not guilty to a speeding ticket
which was written against the maximum speed law article of the California
Vehicle Code, not the safe speed law.  

I entered a plea of not guilty on the grounds that this law was
unconstitutional as it could not dictate speed limits on state roads.
(I was pulled over in a State Freeway, not an Interstate).  I further 
stated that this law was an abomination foisted upon our vehicle code
by the federal government.

The judge responded that if I felt so annoyed by this law, I should contact
my state and federal representatives.  I just responded that I had indeed
done so, but that nothing but silence from the democratic body and just a few
letters back from the republicans was all that I got back.  I also rattled the
then current representatives and senators, as well as my local California
Assemblywoman.

The judge then found me guilty (the max law is really shitty!) but lowered
my fine from $185 to $25 plus court costs.  BTW, I was written up at 70mph.

tony
PS: I hope you all responded to the NMA request and e-mail those morons
    in the US Congress:

------------------------------------------
----Text of a letter to the Senator from Nevada against the 55 mph ------
<I have included this from my mailtool>

Dear Senator from Nevada:

You are against repealling the 55 mph mandate???  Just what the you-know-
what gives?  Have you ever driven the I-15 from Las Vegas to anywhere in
the world?  55?  You must be kidding!  

I can almost understand those kneejerk liberals from the gridlocked North
East support their law-and-order ticket-writing-true-constituencies, but
some one from the State of Nevada, home of more miles of freeways than
all the residents and tourists combined?????

Yeow!  Senator!!! What's the agenda here?  Are you trying to get some 
pork barrel (in itself a bonafide goal -I wish our ineffective California
Senators would just once in a blue moon understand) or are you _really_
against the 55 or just against speed limits all together (wishful thinking).

Come on sir, I'm sure you're a reasonable individual from a state with a 
horizon that takes three hours to reach even at well above 55 mph.
Heck, the Auto Club Trip Tik pages on Nevada take hours to get through...

Please don't hold this bill up because of other agendas.  Couldn't you just
hold up Medicare or something like that -heck I'm just 36 years old so
I can wait some years on Medicare ;-)

Thank you for the soapbox

Antonio S. Esporma
----------------------------------------------


