From padraig at well.com Thu Sep 1 00:24:38 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:24:38 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC21EFA82@at01.sheamcnitt.com> References: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC21EFA82@at01.sheamcnitt.com> Message-ID: <16750194-BF48-46A9-B813-799FE0C51DB5@well.com> Pain and discomfort, it seems, without any what one might call "mindfulness" or perceptive thought can bring to fore that darker self. It's somewhat similar to what a friend told me about his being questioned on his Conscientious Objector status and was given the situation where a person was about to rape his sister and there was a gun between him and that person. The representative said, "Would you not shoot the rapist?" He answered, "Yes," but if he could, he would try to avoid the gun or even putting his sister in harm's way in the first place. Perhaps the higher self, and I hope I can be forgiven a sidestep away from Percy here, is like the one advocated by Rene Girard. One must look at violence (and by association from within the highest self) and choose to have it stop. Rather than look for the scapegoat, become the scapegoat. choose to suffer. Sort of like Tom in the Second Coming who has to deal with the toothache and come out from his cave. I must say, Karl and Dave, you bring up fascinating ideas. Patrick On Aug 31, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Karl M. Terrell wrote: > There is something about these awful occurences that brings up a dark > side of our authenic selves. I'm not sure we can wholly control this. > We can only hope, on balance, that the search will proceed toward a > light. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Thu Sep 1 10:22:19 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:22:19 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: <16750194-BF48-46A9-B813-799FE0C51DB5@well.com> References: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC21EFA82@at01.sheamcnitt.com> <16750194-BF48-46A9-B813-799FE0C51DB5@well.com> Message-ID: <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> Patrick, I like your "sidestep" into Girard. Next to Kierkegaard and Marcel, I probably refer to him (in class) more than any other philosopher (though he considers himself an anthropologist). I was wondering if you might elaborate on the connection you touched on. While I'm not sure how many here are familiar with Girard's work, I think it would be great to discuss how some of his ideas are manifested in Percy. (They seem to be manifested everywhere else, especially his take on mimetic desire.) BTW, someone mentioned that these crises can bring out the best and worst in us. I saw footage of the looting and have now heard evacuation of the Super Dome has been halted, because someone is firing on the choppers. Crazy world. -David Quoting Patrick Lynch : > Pain and discomfort, it seems, without any what one might call > "mindfulness" or perceptive thought can bring to fore that darker > self. It's somewhat similar to what a friend told me about his being > questioned on his Conscientious Objector status and was given the > situation where a person was about to rape his sister and there was a > gun between him and that person. The representative said, "Would you > not shoot the rapist?" He answered, "Yes," but if he could, he would > try to avoid the gun or even putting his sister in harm's way in the > first place. > > Perhaps the higher self, and I hope I can be forgiven a sidestep away > from Percy here, is like the one advocated by Rene Girard. One must > look at violence (and by association from within the highest self) > and choose to have it stop. Rather than look for the scapegoat, > become the scapegoat. choose to suffer. Sort of like Tom in the > Second Coming who has to deal with the toothache and come out from > his cave. > > I must say, Karl and Dave, you bring up fascinating ideas. > > Patrick > On Aug 31, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Karl M. Terrell wrote: > > > There is something about these awful occurences that brings up a dark > > side of our authenic selves. I'm not sure we can wholly control this. > > We can only hope, on balance, that the search will proceed toward a > > light. > > From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Thu Sep 1 20:28:27 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:28:27 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Here in Arizona, my students are trying to wrap their minds around the devastation and find themselves unable to make a complete connection. A few, who had dreamed of attending Tulane, realize that their own hopes have been dashed. I hope by extension they can begin to understand the utter devastation those students who would have been their classmates are facing. For the most part, though, hurricanes are the stuff of movies and, for most of them, so is New Orleans (along with Mississippi and Alabama). The images they see in the newspapers and on tv are somehow cheapened by the special effects wizardry that their usual fare consists of. Tomorrow, I'll give them excerpts from Percy's "New Orleans, Mon Amour" with the hope that his descriptions of New Orleans in all its vitality (and troubles) can do what images cannot--that words can bridge the gap. I guess that's what makes Percy so good--at least for me. When reading him the gaps are bridged. The reference to his "Man on the Train" essay reminds me of his theory that a true literature of alienation does not exist because the novel about the alienated person forges a connection with the alienated reader, thereby dispelling alienation. It seems my students are alienated from this tragedy--I hope Percy will do the trick. In the meantime, I watch this list, encouraged by your words, and searching for the same names we're all looking for, and I pray. A final question: If Girard connects with Percy, which of Girard's works makes for a good first time experience? >From: dabeck at iupui.edu >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" >,Patrick Lynch >CC: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:22:19 -0500 > >Patrick, >I like your "sidestep" into Girard. Next to Kierkegaard and Marcel, I >probably >refer to him (in class) more than any other philosopher (though he >considers >himself an anthropologist). I was wondering if you might elaborate on the >connection you touched on. > While I'm not sure how many here are familiar with Girard's work, I think >it >would be great to discuss how some of his ideas are manifested in Percy. >(They >seem to be manifested everywhere else, especially his take on mimetic >desire.) > BTW, someone mentioned that these crises can bring out the best and worst >in >us. I saw footage of the looting and have now heard evacuation of the Super >Dome has been halted, because someone is firing on the choppers. Crazy >world. >-David From wriddick at usa.net Fri Sep 2 00:19:12 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:19:12 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: References: <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: It reminds me of pictures of the 1927 flood, which wasn't as dramatically abrupt as this. I don't think we've had a natural disaster of this scale since the San Francisco fire and the casualties may we exceed those. Certainly the devastation is what we've only seen in Hiroshima and Dresden. From wriddick at usa.net Fri Sep 2 00:28:22 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:28:22 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: References: <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: >Here in Arizona, my students are trying to wrap their minds around the >devastation and find themselves unable to make a complete connection. A few, >who had dreamed of attending Tulane, realize that their own hopes have been >dashed. I hope by extension they can begin to understand the utter A couple of regional universities and colleges are trying to work out a reasonable way for Tulane/UNO/SUNO/Loyola students to complete a semester some place else. I think Southern and LSU may end up taking law school students and faculty in. I've even heard talk from the Aggies about doing something like this. From JHForest at cs.com Fri Sep 2 06:41:35 2005 From: JHForest at cs.com (JHForest at cs.com) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 06:41:35 EDT Subject: [percy-l] re Rene Girard Message-ID: Dear Rhonda, >> A final question: If Girard connects with Percy, which of Girard's works makes for a good first time experience? << One possible starting point is "The Rene Girard Reader". There are details about the book and some helpful reader reviews at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0824516346/qid=1125657184/sr=1-1 /ref=sr_1_1/103-6671571-2384628?v=glance&s=books You might also find helpful this short essay about Girard -- "The Architecture of War" by Jessica Rose: http://incommunion.org/articles/previous-issues/older-issues/the-architecture- of-war friendly greetings, Jim Forest * * * Jim & Nancy Forest Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands Jim's e-mail: jhforest at cs.com (alternative address: jhforest at gmail.com) Nancy's e-mail: forestflier at cs.com (alternative address: forestflier at gmail.com) Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: http://www.incommunion.org Jim & Nancy Forest web site: http://incommunion.org/forest-flier/ photo web site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/ * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From padraig at well.com Fri Sep 2 20:12:56 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:12:56 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> References: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC21EFA82@at01.sheamcnitt.com> <16750194-BF48-46A9-B813-799FE0C51DB5@well.com> <1125584539.43170e9b19d53@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: David: My familiarity with Girard comes out of "translations" of his ideas by Gil Bailie and Richard Rohr, OFM. Most specifically, Girard's _Violence Unveiled_, which is a survey of Girard's views as seen from the vantage point of Biblical history and even the work of Bob Dylan. Unfortunately, I cannot read French and have _Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World_ waiting for me on my bookshelf. While my high school students may not be ready for Bailie or Girard, I find the 3rd chapter of _Violence Unveiled_ very valuable. It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett. Sorry it took it little longer to get back to this discussion. P. On Sep 1, 2005, at 7:22 AM, dabeck at iupui.edu wrote: > Patrick, > I like your "sidestep" into Girard. Next to Kierkegaard and Marcel, > I probably > refer to him (in class) more than any other philosopher (though he > considers > himself an anthropologist). I was wondering if you might elaborate > on the > connection you touched on. > While I'm not sure how many here are familiar with Girard's work, > I think it > would be great to discuss how some of his ideas are manifested in > Percy. (They > seem to be manifested everywhere else, especially his take on > mimetic desire.) > BTW, someone mentioned that these crises can bring out the best > and worst in > us. I saw footage of the looting and have now heard evacuation of > the Super > Dome has been halted, because someone is firing on the choppers. > Crazy world. > -David > > Quoting Patrick Lynch : > > >> Pain and discomfort, it seems, without any what one might call >> "mindfulness" or perceptive thought can bring to fore that darker >> self. It's somewhat similar to what a friend told me about his being >> questioned on his Conscientious Objector status and was given the >> situation where a person was about to rape his sister and there was a >> gun between him and that person. The representative said, "Would you >> not shoot the rapist?" He answered, "Yes," but if he could, he would >> try to avoid the gun or even putting his sister in harm's way in the >> first place. >> >> Perhaps the higher self, and I hope I can be forgiven a sidestep away >> from Percy here, is like the one advocated by Rene Girard. One must >> look at violence (and by association from within the highest self) >> and choose to have it stop. Rather than look for the scapegoat, >> become the scapegoat. choose to suffer. Sort of like Tom in the >> Second Coming who has to deal with the toothache and come out from >> his cave. >> >> I must say, Karl and Dave, you bring up fascinating ideas. >> >> Patrick >> On Aug 31, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Karl M. Terrell wrote: >> >> >>> There is something about these awful occurences that brings up a >>> dark >>> side of our authenic selves. I'm not sure we can wholly control >>> this. >>> We can only hope, on balance, that the search will proceed toward a >>> light. >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > From KMitch2626 at aol.com Fri Sep 2 22:55:44 2005 From: KMitch2626 at aol.com (KMitch2626 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:55:44 EDT Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes Message-ID: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors? of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the? media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not? direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point? about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull.? Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash)? and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's?woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate? response?to the suffering of poor black americans.? As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry.? First Iraq and now this.? May god forgive us.?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Fri Sep 2 23:16:47 2005 From: Robert_Pauley at oxy.com (Robert_Pauley at oxy.com) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:16:47 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes Message-ID: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From padraig at well.com Fri Sep 2 23:23:48 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:23:48 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> References: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> Message-ID: <8DCB381B-9B36-4338-AF28-451AA0F65691@well.com> Well, we agree on one thing. It is a tremendous sadness. Now we wait for hope, which seems to already be arriving. Patrick On Sep 2, 2005, at 7:55 PM, KMitch2626 at aol.com wrote: > my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Sat Sep 3 00:06:14 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:06:14 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> References: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> Message-ID: <1125720374.43192136169b7@webmail.iu.edu> Ken, If you want to add fuel to your fire, go see "The Constant Gardener." I highly recommend this movie. If you feel cynical about politicians (as I do), take a look (albeit fictional) at the pharmaceutical companies. BTW, your rant is shared by me. I wish we could react as quickly to our own crises as we do to the ones in the middle east. -DB Quoting KMitch2626 at aol.com: > well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common > readers... why not chime in a piss people off. > > yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict > guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american > people. > the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, > whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just > happened. > our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their > suffering. > then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew > > what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. > we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but > > if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your > listserves, but your full of shit! > > my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, > ken mitchell > > quotes: > > "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors? > of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the? > media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not? > direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point? > about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull.? > Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash)? > and even Will Barrett." > > "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans > > is the US Federal government's?woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate? > > response?to the suffering of poor black americans.? As an american I'm > ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry.? First Iraq and now this.? May > god > forgive us.?" > > From KMitch2626 at aol.com Sat Sep 3 00:09:02 2005 From: KMitch2626 at aol.com (KMitch2626 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:09:02 EDT Subject: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes Message-ID: <55.7ab6d042.304a7bde@aol.com> John, If you couldnt tell from my rant, i am not going to argue about what i said. but i will say that I appreciate your response. in fact, i agree with almost the entirety of what you said, and still think that what i said was true. I'm going to try to be as silent as possible. Call me crazy, but I hate it when lists like these devolve into political interpretations of the news about race and such. Still, I thank you for your earnest reply, but... ken mitchell (ps. im forwarding this reply to the percy list. hope you dont mind. i think its a good thing for the readers of each to see whats going on on the 2 lists) read: To Ken Mitchell, ? (1) An explanation by Jim Wallis ( http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=050831#3) ? ************************************************************************ ? During hurricanes, floods and other natural disasters, those who have the least to lose are often those who lose the most. Why? First, the dwellings in which poor people live are not as sturdy, stable, or safe as others. "Shotgun" shacks, mobile homes, and poorly constructed apartment buildings don't do well in hurricane-force winds and tidal surges. Second, the places where poor people live are also the most vulnerable. The rich often live at the tops of hills, the poor in the valleys and plains that are the first to flood. The living conditions in these neighborhoods are also usually the most dense and overcrowded. Third, it is much harder for the poor to evacuate. They don't own cars, can't afford to rent them, and often can't even afford a tank of gas - especially at today's prices. They can't afford an airplane, train, or even bus ticket. And, as one low-income person told a New Orleans reporter, they have no place to go. People in poverty can't afford motel or hotel rooms, and often don't have friends or family in other places with space to spare. In New Orleans, there were many people who desperately wanted to leave but couldn't. Fourth, low-income people are the least likely to have insurance on their homes and belongings, and the least likely to have health insurance. If jobs are lost because of natural disasters, theirs are the first to go. Poverty makes long-term recovery after a disaster more difficult - the communities that are the weakest to begin with usually recover the slowest. The lack of a living family income for most people in those communities leaves no reserve for emergencies. New Orleans has a poverty rate of 28% - more than twice the national rate. Life is always hard for poor people - living on the edge is insecure and full of risk. Natural disasters make it worse. Yet even in normal times, poverty is hidden and not reported by the media. In times of disaster, there continues to be little coverage of the excessive impact on the poor. Devastated luxury homes and hotels, drifting yachts and battered casinos make far more compelling photographs. The final irony of New Orleans is that the people who normally fill the Louisiana Superdome are those who can afford the high cost of tickets, parking, and concessions. Now its inhabitants are the poor, especially children, the elderly and the sick - those with nowhere else to go. Those with money are nowhere to be seen. As the Gulf Coast now faces the long and difficult task of recovery, what can we do? Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared Wednesday a day of prayer: "As we face the devastation wrought by Katrina, as we search for those in need, as we comfort those in pain and as we begin the long task of rebuilding, we turn to God for strength, hope and comfort." She urged residents in her state to ask "that God give us all the physical and spiritual strength to work through this crisis and rebuild." ****************************************************************** 2. A brigade each of the Louisiana, Mississippi, and, probably, the Alabama National Guard are serving in Iraq. I saw the Louisiana Guard train last summer; they were very unhappy. Nearly half the troops in Iraq are Guardsmen. Why? Because there aren't enough Regulars and Marines, and this short-sighted, spineless administration does not have the courage to admit that their neo-conservative fantasizers profoundly underestimated the scope and duration of the war -- in spite of clear warnings from the senior generals in the Army. By early 2004, they saw that they either had to introduce a draft, quickly, or deploy the Guard. Over Labor Day, 2004, there was a near mutiny by a South Carolina Guard battalion training at Ft Dix; the troops felt they had contracted to guard their home state -- during hurricanes, for instance -- rather than run convoys in Iraq.?Several NCOs got a petition started asking that their governor recall them from federal service. More than a dozen South Carolina Guardsmen went AWOL, and the entire battalion was locked down every night after their evening meal. The Louisiana troops are scheduled to re-deploy (ie, come home) over the next few months, but it will take much longer to get their heavy equipment back. It has to be packed onto ships and sailed home. 3. In spite of the mis-use of the Guard, the Federal government had plenty of regular Army and US Navy resource that could have been used if Bush had been awake. There were helicopters and big trucks and equipment powerful enough to drag a disabled tank. It is about a ten-hour drive from Ft Hood to New Orleans, in good conditions...say, 20 hours at the worst. Yes, there is a law that prohibits using the Regulars within the borders of the US except in a crisis -- that's why we have a National Guard, remember. Still, there is that sanity "except" loophole. Katrina did not sneak into New Orleans like a tsunami. Bush had a week to see the danger and give the order. Maybe he was asleep, or raising money, or too busy avoiding the Gold Star Families outside his ranch. Maybe none of his aides wanted to wake him...hey, Chief, there's a monster hurricane about to wipe out a major American city! I don't know what ails the man, but I do know that Jim Piat is exactly right about both Iraq and New Orleans. For peace, John Welch (normally simply a reader of this list, but also a member of Military Families Speak Out. A friend has a husband?in the NY Guard serving in Iraq in a unit with the Louisiana guardsmen.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Sat Sep 3 00:16:29 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:16:29 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <1125720374.43192136169b7@webmail.iu.edu> References: <190.47579f07.304a6ab0@aol.com> <1125720374.43192136169b7@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <1125720989.4319239dc663e@webmail.iu.edu> PS I sent before finishing. I don't think that the slow reaction was related to race either. But I do wonder if such a tragedy happened at Martha's Vineyard, if would we have been so slow to react (and I do think that the federal government was slow to react)? On the other hand, I'm tired and don't want to be held accountable for what I say. These are just some random thoughts in the midst of a tragedy that is hard to understand. After all, it's the first time we have seen in our own land what it's like to live in a 3rd world country. Time to go to bed. -David Quoting dabeck at iupui.edu: > Ken, > If you want to add fuel to your fire, go see "The Constant Gardener." I > highly > recommend this movie. If you feel cynical about politicians (as I do), take a > > look (albeit fictional) at the pharmaceutical companies. > BTW, your rant is shared by me. I wish we could react as quickly to our own > > crises as we do to the ones in the middle east. > -DB > > > > Quoting KMitch2626 at aol.com: > > > well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common > > readers... why not chime in a piss people off. > > > > yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict > > > guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american > > people. > > the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, > > > whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just > > happened. > > our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their > > suffering. > > then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they > knew > > > > what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. > > we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. > but > > > > if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your > > listserves, but your full of shit! > > > > my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, > > ken mitchell > > > > quotes: > > > > "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors? > > of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the? > > media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not? > > direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point? > > about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull.? > > Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash)? > > and even Will Barrett." > > > > "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New > Orleans > > > > is the US Federal government's?woefully indifferent and criminally > inadquate? > > > > response?to the suffering of poor black americans.? As an american I'm > > ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry.? First Iraq and now this.? > May > > god > > forgive us.?" > > > > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > From tfa at brickengraver.com Sat Sep 3 08:34:18 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:34:18 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <20050903123416.DPPY5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the Federal Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member of local government and the super of the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment plant (albeit in a very small town), I am at a loss as to where the City of New Orleans' emergency response plan was? Even we have plans in place and on the shelf to put into action in response the the eventuality --and that word means what it says--eventually it WILL happen--of a hurricane or other natural disaster. To hear the mayor of New Orleans say he is pissed at the Fed. Governments response, if I was a citizen of NO, I would be pissed at the City's lack of adequate planning and pissed at him, the commissioners, and the whole damned City government . It is first and foremost the responsibility of the local officials. They above all others should be the "First Responders." They know their city, their vulnerabilities, their citizens. The city and state of Louisiana should bear the brunt of the the criticism in my opinion. Where was the back up water supply located (bottled water,etc)--where were the backup food supplies located, where was the means and organizational structure to distribute them, etc. etc. What should the procedures be to get the people out of harm's way in event of a disaster--after all this is over--someone should study the failures of not the Fed Governments response, but the response of the City of New Orleans. There was no evacuation plan not because the Federal Government did not have one, but because the City of New Orleans did not have one, or if it did, did not competently put it into action. And after the town is evacuated, who should provide security. Should not the mayor of NO have immediately had his request for the National Guard to come ready to sign or already signed? The order of business in such circumstances as disaster planning seems to be for local governments " Its just too costly and complicated for us to do and the Feds will come in anyway". Now I am in perfect agreement that the Feds should provide relief--and the bulk of the aftermath rebuilding, but in their main role is as support troops to implement already in place strategies that the local governments have in place. If it had happened on Martha's Vineyard, I dare say that the FED govt. would not even have to have been involved, as the officials there are probably competent. And that has really nothing to do with race or economic factors. The Quote: "yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidelines on how it must respond to the sufferings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. " Is completely without basis--not everything that goes wrong in the world can be distilled down to "racial bigotry". The severity of the disaster in New Orleans had nothing to do with racial bigotry. It had to do with an incredibly destructive "Act Of God" and a lot of incompetent (and in many many instances, competent) planning and/or incompetent execution of those plans. No matter how well any plan was conceived and executed, there would have been great amounts of damage--but I do find some fault in the City of New Orleans for not adequately preparing for the safety of its citizens. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:17 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kterrell at sheastokes.com Sat Sep 3 11:59:49 2005 From: kterrell at sheastokes.com (Karl M. Terrell) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:59:49 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes Message-ID: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC2212912@at01.sheamcnitt.com> * * This communication is CONFIDENTIAL * * I'll just weigh in, amid the charged debate, with a little musical relief, and recommend all take a listen to Randy Newman's beautiful, mournful song about the 1927 flood, "Louisianna 1927." The flood, the water and the wind (from the "north") are evoked, especially in the chorus, as a metaphor for changes forcing the loss of the past. The song ends with a little bittersweet humor. Here are some of the lyrics: "What's happened down here is the wind have changed/ Clouds rolled in from the north and it started to rain/ //// The river rose all day, the river rose all night/ Some people got lost in the flood, some people got away all right/ //// The river have busted through clear down to Plaquemines/ Six feet of water in the streets of Evangeline. Chorus: Louisianna, Louisianna/ They're tryin' to wash us away/ They're tryin' to wash us away. ///// President Coolidge came down on a railroad train/ Had a little fat man with a notepad in his hand/ President said, "Little fat man, ain't it a shame/ What the water has done/ To this poor cracker's land." -----Original Message----- From: Wade Riddick [mailto:wriddick at usa.net] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:19 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" It reminds me of pictures of the 1927 flood, which wasn't as dramatically abrupt as this. I don't think we've had a natural disaster of this scale since the San Francisco fire and the casualties may we exceed those. Certainly the devastation is what we've only seen in Hiroshima and Dresden. -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy ************************************************************************************************ PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. This message, and its attachments, may contain information that falls under the attorney-client and/or work product privileges. Receipt of this message by an unintended recipient does not constitute a waiver by the sender of any and all applicable privileges. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail and any attachments, or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipients, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, downloading, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, permanently delete the e-mail and any attachments immediately, and destroy all copies. ************************************************************************************************ From juliorivas at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 11:59:16 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:59:16 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: Mr. Pauley, I've seen often that when some members of this list subtly want to dismiss as irrelevant something posted by some other member, they -quite politely, ? la Anglaise- address the mentioned member as "Mr. -----", while the rest of the time it's just Tom, Willie or Jack -more brotherly fashion, that is to say, "We", as opposite to "They". Just some food for thought, ? la Percy... This said, Mr. Pauley, your remark of "inept, third-world city hall" is extremely peculiar, given the fact that all over he world we are watching with utter dismay -via CNN, for instance- the grossly inept (not to say criminal) reaction or lack of reaction of Mr. Bush's administration and the also grossly inept (not to say criminal) lack of preparation to cope with what was for weeks an announced disaster -not something unexpected as a tsunami or an earthquake. Among those who are doing something for the victims is, Mr. Pauley, Venezuela, which has already donated $ 1 million dollars via Citgo and which is still waiting the approval of Mr. Bush's administration to fly in a highly experienced and skilled rescue team, an offer that was made the day after Katrina struck. So perhaps Mr. Pauley you'd do well to think twice in the future when you emply the term "third world" in such a stereotyped way. You might find yourself surprised to discover that you too are living these days in a third world country -if you still have doubts about it, please turn on your TV set... With all best wishes, Julio Rivas-Pita On 9/2/05, Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: > > Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also > are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire > political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls > for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and > increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the > national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if > one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response > on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the > distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more > sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto: > percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] *On Behalf Of *KMitch2626 at aol.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM > *To:* percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > *Cc:* peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu > *Subject:* [percy-l] hurricanes > > well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common > readers... why not chime in a piss people off. > > yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict > guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american > people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must > follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just > happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at > their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, > actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. > we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. > but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your > listserves, but your full of shit! > > my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, > ken mitchell > > quotes: > > "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors > of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the > media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not > direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point > about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. > Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) > and even Will Barrett." > > "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New > Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally > inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american > I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. > May god forgive us. " > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 12:12:52 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:12:52 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <20050903123416.DPPY5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> <20050903123416.DPPY5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer 38 minutes ago NEW ORLEANS - A fleet of air-conditioned buses rolled up to the city's devastated convention center Saturday to begin evacuating an estimated 25,000 people who have been waiting for days amid the stench of garbage and rotting corpses. ADVERTISEMENT Thousands of people began pushing and dragging their belongings up the street to more than a dozen buses, the mood more numb than jubilant. Yolanda Sanders stood at a barricade clutching her cocker spaniel, Toto. She had been at the convention center for five days. "I had faith that they'd come. I feel good that I know I can get to my family," she said. Sanders didn't know yet where they were taking her, but "anyplace is better than here. People are dying over there." Thousands from the Superdome were taken to Texas on air-conditioned buses, but early Saturday the operation was halted ? with as many as 5,000 in the stadium still to be evacuated five days after Hurricane Katrina made landfall. Lt. Kevin Cowan of the state Office of Emergency Preparedness said the evacuations were stopped so authorities could focus on getting people out of the convention center. Jennifer Washington was among the frustrated evacuees who waited for buses to come. "At first they said 6:30 this morning, then they said 9," said Washington, 25, who has not been able to find her four children in the aftermath of the storm. Buses arrived later in the morning. Helicopters were taking the sickest people from the center, and two of the city's most troubled hospitals were evacuated Friday after desperate doctors spent days making tough choices about which patients got dwindling supplies of food, water and medicines. "We're just trying to ease their pain, give them a little bit of dignity and get them out of here," said Lt. Col. Connie McNabb. A Saks Fifth Avenue store billowed smoke Saturday, as did rows of warehouses on the east bank of the Mississippi River, where corrugated roofs buckled and tiny explosions erupted. Gunfire ? almost two dozen shots ? broke out in the French Quarter overnight. As the warehouse district burned, Ron Seitzer, 61, washed his dirty laundry in the even dirtier waters of the Mississippi River and said he didn't know how much longer he could stay without water or power, surrounded by looters. "I've never even had a nightmare or a beautiful dream about this," he said as he watched the warehouses burn. "People are just not themselves." On Friday, *President Bush*took an aerial tour of the city and answered complaints about a sluggish government response by saying, "We're going to make it right." Flatbed trucks carried huge crates, pallets and bags of relief supplies, including Meals Ready to Eat. Soldiers sat in the backs of open-top trucks, their rifles pointing skyward. In what looked like a scene from a Third World country, some outside the convention center threw their arms heavenward and others hollered profanities as camouflage-green vehicles and supply trucks finally rolled through axle-deep floodwaters into what remained of New Orleans. National Guard Lt. Col. Jerry Crooks said troops had served more than 70,000 meals outside the convention center and had 130,000 more on hand. Watching the caravan, Leschia Radford sang the praises of a higher power. "Lord, I thank you for getting us out of here!" Radford shrieked. But on Saturday, hope was overtaken by frustration as people continued to wait. A dead man lay on sidewalk under a blanket with a stream of blood running down the pavement toward the gutter. People said he died from violence. "We're hurting out here, man. We got to get help. All we want is someone to feel our pain, that's all," said Tasheka Johnson, 24. About a dozen people who headed down the street to look for food and water said they were turned back by a soldier who pulled a gun. "We had to get something to eat. What are they doing pulling a gun?" said Richard Johnson, 28. The soldiers' arrival-in-force came amid angry complaints from local officials that the federal government had bungled the relief effort and let people die in the streets for lack of food, water or medicine as the city was overtaken by looting, rape and arson. "The people of our city are holding on by a thread," Mayor Ray Nagin warned in a statement to CNN. "Time has run out. Can we survive another night? And who can we depend on? Only God knows." The president took a land and air tour of hard-hit areas of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama Friday, and admitted of the relief effort: "The results are not enough." Congress passed a $10.5 billion disaster aid package, and Bush quickly signed the measure. Gov. Kathleen Blanco said the military presence helped calm a jittery city. "We are seeing a show of force. It's putting confidence back in our hearts and in the minds of our people," Blanco said. "We're going to make it through." Guard members carrying rifles also arrived at the Louisiana Superdome, where bedraggled people ? many of them trapped there since the weekend ? stretched around the perimeter of the building. Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, commander of the National Guard, said 7,000 Guard members would be in the city by Saturday. All the victims in the Superdome were supposed to have been evacuated by dawn Saturday, but shortly after midnight, the buses stopped rolling. Between 2,000 and 5,000 people still in the stadium could be there until Sunday, according to the Texas Air National Guard. Within minutes of the soldiers' arrival at the convention center, they set up six food and water lines. The crowd was for the most part orderly and grateful. Diane Sylvester, 49, was the first person through the line. "Something is better than nothing," she said of her two bottles of water and pork rib meal. "I feel great to see the military here. I know I'm saved." With Houston's Astrodome already full with 15,000 storm refugees, that city opened two more centers to accommodate an additional 10,000. Dallas and San Antonio also had agreed to take refugees. One group of Katrina's victims lurched from one tragedy to another: A bus carrying evacuees from the Superdome overturned on a Louisiana highway, killing at least one person and injuring many others. At the broken levee along Lake Pontchartrain that swamped nearly 80 percent of New Orleans, helicopters dropped 3,000-pound sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into place to seal off the waters. Engineers also were developing a plan to create new breaches in the levees so that a combination of gravity and pumping and would drain the water out of the city, a process that could take weeks. ___ Associated Press reporters Kevin McGill, Allen G. Breed, Brett Martel and Mary Foster contributed to this report. On 9/3/05, Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the Federal > Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member of local government > and the super of the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment > plant (albeit in a very small town), I am at a loss as to where the City of > New Orleans' emergency response plan was? Even we have plans in place and on > the shelf to put into action in response the the eventuality --and that word > means what it says--eventually it WILL happen--of a hurricane or other > natural disaster. To hear the mayor of New Orleans say he is pissed at the > Fed. Governments response, if I was a citizen of NO, I would be pissed at > the City's lack of adequate planning and pissed at him, the commissioners, > and the whole damned City government . It is first and foremost the > responsibility of the local officials. They above all others should be the > "First Responders." They know their city, their vulnerabilities, their > citizens. The city and state of Louisiana should bear the brunt of the the > criticism in my opinion. Where was the back up water supply located (bottled > water,etc)--where were the backup food supplies located, where was the means > and organizational structure to distribute them, etc. etc. What should the > procedures be to get the people out of harm's way in event of a > disaster--after all this is over--someone should study the failures of not > the Fed Governments response, but the response of the City of New Orleans. > There was no evacuation plan not because the Federal Government did not have > one, but because the City of New Orleans did not have one, or if it did, did > not competently put it into action. And after the town is evacuated, who > should provide security. Should not the mayor of NO have immediately had his > request for the National Guard to come ready to sign or already signed? > The order of business in such circumstances as disaster planning seems to > be for local governments " Its just too costly and complicated for us to do > and the Feds will come in anyway". Now I am in perfect agreement that the > Feds should provide relief--and the bulk of the aftermath rebuilding, but in > their main role is as support troops to implement already in place > strategies that the local governments have in place. > If it had happened on Martha's Vineyard, I dare say that the FED govt. > would not even have to have been involved, as the officials there are > probably competent. And that has really nothing to do with race or economic > factors. > The Quote: > "yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has > strict guidelines on how it must respond to the sufferings of > african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific > wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black > persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and > watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to > send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and > could have prevented it. " > Is completely without basis--not everything that goes wrong in the world > can be distilled down to "racial bigotry". The severity of the disaster in > New Orleans had nothing to do with racial bigotry. It had to do with an > incredibly destructive "Act Of God" and a lot of incompetent (and in many > many instances, competent) planning and/or incompetent execution of those > plans. No matter how well any plan was conceived and executed, there would > have been great amounts of damage--but I do find some fault in the City of > New Orleans for not adequately preparing for the safety of its citizens. > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto: > percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert_Pauley at oxy.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 02, 2005 11:17 PM > *To:* percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > *Subject:* Re: [percy-l] hurricanes > > Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us > also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire > political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls > for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and > increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the > national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if > one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response > on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the > distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more > sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto: > percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] *On Behalf Of *KMitch2626 at aol.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM > *To:* percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > *Cc:* peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu > *Subject:* [percy-l] hurricanes > > well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common > readers... why not chime in a piss people off. > > yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict > guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american > people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must > follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just > happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at > their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, > actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. > we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. > but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your > listserves, but your full of shit! > > my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, > ken mitchell > > quotes: > > "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors > of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the > media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not > direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point > about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. > Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) > and even Will Barrett." > > "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New > Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally > inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american > I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. > May god forgive us. " > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Sat Sep 3 13:07:55 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:07:55 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes References: <20050903123416.DPPY5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <003901c5b0aa$077e1700$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> MessageTommy, I think you are underestimating the enormity of this crisis. No one city government could handle a crisis that has been compared to: the "Big One" hitting California, or a major terrorist attack (greater than 9/11) hitting New York City (see article below) - years before it happened. There were a variety of things that needed to be done - before and after - at the city, state, and federal level - that weren't done, for whatever reason. The solution to preventing or lessening the impact of this had to come from all levels. At this point, after the fact, NO can't do anything more than what it is doing, and some say Mayor Nagin's impassioned plea was strategically planned to get the feds in action when they were dragging their feet and making the tragedy even worse. Whether it was or not, whatever planning NO or any other city might have been able to do for this, they would have needed more help - sooner - than what was provided. KP Poor, sick, aged left in the lurch No plan ever made to help New Orleans' most vulnerable Leonard Witt - For the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday, September 1, 2005 Leonard Witt is the Robert D. Fowler Distinguished Chair in Communication at Kennesaw State University. Each time you hear a federal, state or city official explain what he or she is doing to help New Orleans, consider the opening paragraphs of a July 24 story in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. "City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own." The story continues: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation." The officials made those statements fully knowing that those 134,000 people were very likely to end up in dire circumstances or even die. Here is what National Geographic magazine wrote in an article published in October 2004 about a possible hurricane scenario for New Orleans: "The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great." In that article National Geographic predicted with eerie accuracy that more than a million people would evacuate, but some 200,000 would remain, including "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." The New Orleans Times-Picayune ran its own series in 2002 in which it wrote: "If enough water from Lake Pontchartrain topped the levee system along its south shore, the result would be apocalyptic. Whoever remained in the city would be at grave risk. According to the American Red Cross, a likely death toll would be between 25,000 and 100,000 people, dwarfing estimated death tolls for other natural disasters and all but the most nightmarish potential terrorist attacks. Tens of thousands more would be stranded on rooftops and high ground, awaiting rescue that could take days or longer. They would face thirst, hunger and exposure to toxic chemicals." And yet apparently there was no emergency plan and no resources to evacuate "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." In this era when we are a nation at risk of terrorism and natural disasters, we can only hope that what is happening in New Orleans is not built into the fabric of our national homeland security policy. We should provide security for everyone, including the poor, aged and infirm. We have the resources. On Wednesday, it seems FEMA found 475 buses to help with the belated evacuation effort. Unfortunately, when it comes to looking after the carless, homeless, the aged and infirm in our country, we --- in our quest to become an ownership society --- seemed to have allowed our good senses, good will and compassion to go on vacation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the Federal Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member of local government and the super of the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment plant (albeit in a very small town), I am at a loss as to where the City of New Orleans' emergency response plan was? Even we have plans in place and on the shelf to put into action in response the the eventuality --and that word means what it says--eventually it WILL happen--of a hurricane or other natural disaster. To hear the mayor of New Orleans say he is pissed at the Fed. Governments response, if I was a citizen of NO, I would be pissed at the City's lack of adequate planning and pissed at him, the commissioners, and the whole damned City government . It is first and foremost the responsibility of the local officials. They above all others should be the "First Responders." They know their city, their vulnerabilities, their citizens. The city and state of Louisiana should bear the brunt of the the criticism in my opinion. Where was the back up water supply located (bottled water,etc)--where were the backup food supplies located, where was the means and organizational structure to distribute them, etc. etc. What should the procedures be to get the people out of harm's way in event of a disaster--after all this is over--someone should study the failures of not the Fed Governments response, but the response of the City of New Orleans. There was no evacuation plan not because the Federal Government did not have one, but because the City of New Orleans did not have one, or if it did, did not competently put it into action. And after the town is evacuated, who should provide security. Should not the mayor of NO have immediately had his request for the National Guard to come ready to sign or already signed? The order of business in such circumstances as disaster planning seems to be for local governments " Its just too costly and complicated for us to do and the Feds will come in anyway". Now I am in perfect agreement that the Feds should provide relief--and the bulk of the aftermath rebuilding, but in their main role is as support troops to implement already in place strategies that the local governments have in place. If it had happened on Martha's Vineyard, I dare say that the FED govt. would not even have to have been involved, as the officials there are probably competent. And that has really nothing to do with race or economic factors. The Quote: "yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidelines on how it must respond to the sufferings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. " Is completely without basis--not everything that goes wrong in the world can be distilled down to "racial bigotry". The severity of the disaster in New Orleans had nothing to do with racial bigotry. It had to do with an incredibly destructive "Act Of God" and a lot of incompetent (and in many many instances, competent) planning and/or incompetent execution of those plans. No matter how well any plan was conceived and executed, there would have been great amounts of damage--but I do find some fault in the City of New Orleans for not adequately preparing for the safety of its citizens. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:17 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kfw at ntelos.net Sat Sep 3 15:44:12 2005 From: kfw at ntelos.net (Ken Wilson) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:44:12 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes References: <7A5E4A01592B87438BF92B2CC0CA9DC2212912@at01.sheamcnitt.com> Message-ID: <002a01c5b0bf$e305fdf0$d34a91d1@servant> Karl M. Terrell wrote: > I'll just weigh in, amid the charged debate, with a little musical > relief, and recommend all take a listen to Randy Newman's beautiful, > mournful song about the 1927 flood, "Louisianna 1927." The flood, the > water and the wind (from the "north") are evoked, especially in the > chorus, as a metaphor for changes forcing the loss of the past. The > song ends with a little bittersweet humor. Here are some of the lyrics: > > "What's happened down here is the wind have changed/ > Clouds rolled in from the north and it started to rain/ > //// > The river rose all day, the river rose all night/ > Some people got lost in the flood, some people got away all right/ > //// > The river have busted through clear down to Plaquemines/ > Six feet of water in the streets of Evangeline. > > Chorus: > > Louisianna, Louisianna/ > They're tryin' to wash us away/ > They're tryin' to wash us away. > ///// > > President Coolidge came down on a railroad train/ > Had a little fat man with a notepad in his hand/ > President said, "Little fat man, ain't it a shame/ > What the water has done/ > To this poor cracker's land." Thanks, Karl. Aaron Neville sang this song beautifully on last night's NBC/CNBC/MSNBC telethon,and I'm guessing that the latter will keep replaying it. Ken From hghwy6 at aol.com Sat Sep 3 15:47:45 2005 From: hghwy6 at aol.com (hghwy6 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:47:45 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <4319FDE1.5010505@aol.com> Mr. Rivas-Pita, May I politely suggest you initiate a Venezuelans Against Bush blog or listserve, rather than aggressively attempting to politicize (and talking down to those who aren't overawed by your viewpoint) a friendly discussion group? Just a thought, a la me. And FYI, most of us have televisions, newspapers, and, obviously, internet access. It just may be possible that there are factors other than total ignorance which lead individuals to opinions other than those of your own. Best wishes, John From tfa at brickengraver.com Sat Sep 3 20:18:08 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:18:08 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <003901c5b0aa$077e1700$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: <20050904001804.UCXE14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> "And yet apparently there was no emergency plan and no resources to evacuate "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." " And why the hell not--why did New Orleans City gov't in coordination with Louisiana and then in coordination with the Feds not have a plan and resources. Every town and city in the US as had to come up with a vulnerability study and had to create an emergency response plan--at least all water plants did. It is truthfully absolutely atrocious that at least an evacuation plan was not in effect--and I still stand by my contention that such planning is ultimately the responsibility of the Town and State. Buses should have been lined up far in advance of the storm--bottled water supplies should have been warehoused as should have been food. And there was lead time for this storm. I agree that this is a Big One, and that is all the more reason that the City and State should have been preparing for such an eventuality for years and years. Here in North Carolina, we have been through many hurricanes ourselves, and after each there is a reassessment of what went right, and what went wrong. There is a command and control center to coordinate all the multitudinous things that have to be coordinated. I will hold judgment until later, as I think others should do, to understand the causes of the massive failings of this operation. But, for many in the world, including Pitas, who do not understand the governmental structure of the United States and the role of the Federal Government--let them understand that the individual cities, then the individual states are the first responders. It is not the job of the Federal Government to have emergency management plans for every potential disaster in every location in the country. I think there is plenty of blame to be doled out--but the idea of the Mayor of New Orleans saying he is pissed at FEMA is a bit absurd. He should be pissed at his own people, and at himself, to allow such a thing to get so completely out of control. Save lives first, then property, if possible. It would obviously costs billions and billions to harden NO against such an occurrence, and maybe the funds were not there, etc. BUT KNOWING THAT--the fallback plan of not having the proper infrastructure should have been the safety of the people--especially for those that did not possess the means themselves. There are not but about 5 main functions of municipal government--to provide water, wastewater, public safety, orderly growth, and fire protection. NO failed miserably in planning for these things. And yes, I do understand the enormity of the task, so when one cannot provide those functions due to disaster, then one needs to make sure that the citizens are evacuated to a place where they can be provided. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karey Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 1:08 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Tommy, I think you are underestimating the enormity of this crisis. No one city government could handle a crisis that has been compared to: the "Big One" hitting California, or a major terrorist attack (greater than 9/11) hitting New York City (see article below) - years before it happened. There were a variety of things that needed to be done - before and after - at the city, state, and federal level - that weren't done, for whatever reason. The solution to preventing or lessening the impact of this had to come from all levels. At this point, after the fact, NO can't do anything more than what it is doing, and some say Mayor Nagin's impassioned plea was strategically planned to get the feds in action when they were dragging their feet and making the tragedy even worse. Whether it was or not, whatever planning NO or any other city might have been able to do for this, they would have needed more help - sooner - than what was provided. KP Poor, sick, aged left in the lurch No plan ever made to help New Orleans' most vulnerable Leonard Witt - For the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday, September 1, 2005 Leonard Witt is the Robert D. Fowler Distinguished Chair in Communication at Kennesaw State University. Each time you hear a federal, state or city official explain what he or she is doing to help New Orleans, consider the opening paragraphs of a July 24 story in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. "City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own." The story continues: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation." The officials made those statements fully knowing that those 134,000 people were very likely to end up in dire circumstances or even die. Here is what National Geographic magazine wrote in an article published in October 2004 about a possible hurricane scenario for New Orleans: "The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great." In that article National Geographic predicted with eerie accuracy that more than a million people would evacuate, but some 200,000 would remain, including "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." The New Orleans Times-Picayune ran its own series in 2002 in which it wrote: "If enough water from Lake Pontchartrain topped the levee system along its south shore, the result would be apocalyptic. Whoever remained in the city would be at grave risk. According to the American Red Cross, a likely death toll would be between 25,000 and 100,000 people, dwarfing estimated death tolls for other natural disasters and all but the most nightmarish potential terrorist attacks. Tens of thousands more would be stranded on rooftops and high ground, awaiting rescue that could take days or longer. They would face thirst, hunger and exposure to toxic chemicals." And yet apparently there was no emergency plan and no resources to evacuate "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." In this era when we are a nation at risk of terrorism and natural disasters, we can only hope that what is happening in New Orleans is not built into the fabric of our national homeland security policy. We should provide security for everyone, including the poor, aged and infirm. We have the resources. On Wednesday, it seems FEMA found 475 buses to help with the belated evacuation effort. Unfortunately, when it comes to looking after the carless, homeless, the aged and infirm in our country, we --- in our quest to become an ownership society --- seemed to have allowed our good senses, good will and compassion to go on vacation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the Federal Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member of local government and the super of the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment plant (albeit in a very small town), I am at a loss as to where the City of New Orleans' emergency response plan was? Even we have plans in place and on the shelf to put into action in response the the eventuality --and that word means what it says--eventually it WILL happen--of a hurricane or other natural disaster. To hear the mayor of New Orleans say he is pissed at the Fed. Governments response, if I was a citizen of NO, I would be pissed at the City's lack of adequate planning and pissed at him, the commissioners, and the whole damned City government . It is first and foremost the responsibility of the local officials. They above all others should be the "First Responders." They know their city, their vulnerabilities, their citizens. The city and state of Louisiana should bear the brunt of the the criticism in my opinion. Where was the back up water supply located (bottled water,etc)--where were the backup food supplies located, where was the means and organizational structure to distribute them, etc. etc. What should the procedures be to get the people out of harm's way in event of a disaster--after all this is over--someone should study the failures of not the Fed Governments response, but the response of the City of New Orleans. There was no evacuation plan not because the Federal Government did not have one, but because the City of New Orleans did not have one, or if it did, did not competently put it into action. And after the town is evacuated, who should provide security. Should not the mayor of NO have immediately had his request for the National Guard to come ready to sign or already signed? The order of business in such circumstances as disaster planning seems to be for local governments " Its just too costly and complicated for us to do and the Feds will come in anyway". Now I am in perfect agreement that the Feds should provide relief--and the bulk of the aftermath rebuilding, but in their main role is as support troops to implement already in place strategies that the local governments have in place. If it had happened on Martha's Vineyard, I dare say that the FED govt. would not even have to have been involved, as the officials there are probably competent. And that has really nothing to do with race or economic factors. The Quote: "yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidelines on how it must respond to the sufferings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. " Is completely without basis--not everything that goes wrong in the world can be distilled down to "racial bigotry". The severity of the disaster in New Orleans had nothing to do with racial bigotry. It had to do with an incredibly destructive "Act Of God" and a lot of incompetent (and in many many instances, competent) planning and/or incompetent execution of those plans. No matter how well any plan was conceived and executed, there would have been great amounts of damage--but I do find some fault in the City of New Orleans for not adequately preparing for the safety of its citizens. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:17 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Sat Sep 3 21:37:03 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:37:03 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes References: <20050904001804.UCXE14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <001101c5b0f1$270e6970$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> MessageI still think you are underestimating the enormity of this crisis. Comparing your hurricanes in NC to NO is not the same... In the end, the hurricane (a Category 5), as tremendous as it was, was not the most devastating event - the flood was. The Lake Pontchartrain levee system is controlled by the US Army Corps of Engineers and funded by US Congress and presidential legislation. That funding was reduced drastically over the years, putting NO in this danger, which is why the NO Times - Picayune wrote the article preceding last year's hurricane season, and Natl. Geographic wrote it's article last October (which were mentioned in previous article). Just think, the few million federal dollars to shore up the levee system would have saved 10.5 billion in federal dollars now. Good to have a plan. This is not just about New Orleans - Biloxi and Gulfport practically don't exist any more and that's something that's not getting very much press. The people there are in the same kind of housing situation as NO, but they are still doing better than NO because there wasn't a flood, so they don't have to wade through toxic water filled with alligators, snakes, rats, feces, and sit on top of roofs, etc. Transportation does not have to be done by boat in Mississippi, and everything is more accessible - supplies can get in, people can get out. In New Orleans, you can't rebuild - even pick up - until the water's gone, which will take another 3 months. Another thought, for all the city/state/federal planners out there: We have two more months of hurricanes left - what if we have another one? Weren't there 4 or 5 in a row in Florida last year? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes "And yet apparently there was no emergency plan and no resources to evacuate "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." " And why the hell not--why did New Orleans City gov't in coordination with Louisiana and then in coordination with the Feds not have a plan and resources. Every town and city in the US as had to come up with a vulnerability study and had to create an emergency response plan--at least all water plants did. It is truthfully absolutely atrocious that at least an evacuation plan was not in effect--and I still stand by my contention that such planning is ultimately the responsibility of the Town and State. Buses should have been lined up far in advance of the storm--bottled water supplies should have been warehoused as should have been food. And there was lead time for this storm. I agree that this is a Big One, and that is all the more reason that the City and State should have been preparing for such an eventuality for years and years. Here in North Carolina, we have been through many hurricanes ourselves, and after each there is a reassessment of what went right, and what went wrong. There is a command and control center to coordinate all the multitudinous things that have to be coordinated. I will hold judgment until later, as I think others should do, to understand the causes of the massive failings of this operation. But, for many in the world, including Pitas, who do not understand the governmental structure of the United States and the role of the Federal Government--let them understand that the individual cities, then the individual states are the first responders. It is not the job of the Federal Government to have emergency management plans for every potential disaster in every location in the country. I think there is plenty of blame to be doled out--but the idea of the Mayor of New Orleans saying he is pissed at FEMA is a bit absurd. He should be pissed at his own people, and at himself, to allow such a thing to get so completely out of control. Save lives first, then property, if possible. It would obviously costs billions and billions to harden NO against such an occurrence, and maybe the funds were not there, etc. BUT KNOWING THAT--the fallback plan of not having the proper infrastructure should have been the safety of the people--especially for those that did not possess the means themselves. There are not but about 5 main functions of municipal government--to provide water, wastewater, public safety, orderly growth, and fire protection. NO failed miserably in planning for these things. And yes, I do understand the enormity of the task, so when one cannot provide those functions due to disaster, then one needs to make sure that the citizens are evacuated to a place where they can be provided. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karey Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 1:08 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Tommy, I think you are underestimating the enormity of this crisis. No one city government could handle a crisis that has been compared to: the "Big One" hitting California, or a major terrorist attack (greater than 9/11) hitting New York City (see article below) - years before it happened. There were a variety of things that needed to be done - before and after - at the city, state, and federal level - that weren't done, for whatever reason. The solution to preventing or lessening the impact of this had to come from all levels. At this point, after the fact, NO can't do anything more than what it is doing, and some say Mayor Nagin's impassioned plea was strategically planned to get the feds in action when they were dragging their feet and making the tragedy even worse. Whether it was or not, whatever planning NO or any other city might have been able to do for this, they would have needed more help - sooner - than what was provided. KP Poor, sick, aged left in the lurch No plan ever made to help New Orleans' most vulnerable Leonard Witt - For the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday, September 1, 2005 Leonard Witt is the Robert D. Fowler Distinguished Chair in Communication at Kennesaw State University. Each time you hear a federal, state or city official explain what he or she is doing to help New Orleans, consider the opening paragraphs of a July 24 story in the New Orleans Times-Picayune. "City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give the poorest of New Orleans' poor a historically blunt message: In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own." The story continues: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation." The officials made those statements fully knowing that those 134,000 people were very likely to end up in dire circumstances or even die. Here is what National Geographic magazine wrote in an article published in October 2004 about a possible hurricane scenario for New Orleans: "The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great." In that article National Geographic predicted with eerie accuracy that more than a million people would evacuate, but some 200,000 would remain, including "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." The New Orleans Times-Picayune ran its own series in 2002 in which it wrote: "If enough water from Lake Pontchartrain topped the levee system along its south shore, the result would be apocalyptic. Whoever remained in the city would be at grave risk. According to the American Red Cross, a likely death toll would be between 25,000 and 100,000 people, dwarfing estimated death tolls for other natural disasters and all but the most nightmarish potential terrorist attacks. Tens of thousands more would be stranded on rooftops and high ground, awaiting rescue that could take days or longer. They would face thirst, hunger and exposure to toxic chemicals." And yet apparently there was no emergency plan and no resources to evacuate "the carless, the homeless, the aged and infirm." In this era when we are a nation at risk of terrorism and natural disasters, we can only hope that what is happening in New Orleans is not built into the fabric of our national homeland security policy. We should provide security for everyone, including the poor, aged and infirm. We have the resources. On Wednesday, it seems FEMA found 475 buses to help with the belated evacuation effort. Unfortunately, when it comes to looking after the carless, homeless, the aged and infirm in our country, we --- in our quest to become an ownership society --- seemed to have allowed our good senses, good will and compassion to go on vacation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the Federal Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member of local government and the super of the water treatment plant and the wastewater treatment plant (albeit in a very small town), I am at a loss as to where the City of New Orleans' emergency response plan was? Even we have plans in place and on the shelf to put into action in response the the eventuality --and that word means what it says--eventually it WILL happen--of a hurricane or other natural disaster. To hear the mayor of New Orleans say he is pissed at the Fed. Governments response, if I was a citizen of NO, I would be pissed at the City's lack of adequate planning and pissed at him, the commissioners, and the whole damned City government . It is first and foremost the responsibility of the local officials. They above all others should be the "First Responders." They know their city, their vulnerabilities, their citizens. The city and state of Louisiana should bear the brunt of the the criticism in my opinion. Where was the back up water supply located (bottled water,etc)--where were the backup food supplies located, where was the means and organizational structure to distribute them, etc. etc. What should the procedures be to get the people out of harm's way in event of a disaster--after all this is over--someone should study the failures of not the Fed Governments response, but the response of the City of New Orleans. There was no evacuation plan not because the Federal Government did not have one, but because the City of New Orleans did not have one, or if it did, did not competently put it into action. And after the town is evacuated, who should provide security. Should not the mayor of NO have immediately had his request for the National Guard to come ready to sign or already signed? The order of business in such circumstances as disaster planning seems to be for local governments " Its just too costly and complicated for us to do and the Feds will come in anyway". Now I am in perfect agreement that the Feds should provide relief--and the bulk of the aftermath rebuilding, but in their main role is as support troops to implement already in place strategies that the local governments have in place. If it had happened on Martha's Vineyard, I dare say that the FED govt. would not even have to have been involved, as the officials there are probably competent. And that has really nothing to do with race or economic factors. The Quote: "yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidelines on how it must respond to the sufferings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. " Is completely without basis--not everything that goes wrong in the world can be distilled down to "racial bigotry". The severity of the disaster in New Orleans had nothing to do with racial bigotry. It had to do with an incredibly destructive "Act Of God" and a lot of incompetent (and in many many instances, competent) planning and/or incompetent execution of those plans. No matter how well any plan was conceived and executed, there would have been great amounts of damage--but I do find some fault in the City of New Orleans for not adequately preparing for the safety of its citizens. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:17 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wriddick at usa.net Sun Sep 4 04:03:50 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 03:03:50 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <20050903123416.DPPY5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 7074 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Sep 4 10:35:15 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:35:15 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050904143507.FSP14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Dear Wade, Thank you for such a reasoned response. And I agree with practically everything you have said. The main thing I think I take exception to is: " Most were sick and couldn't leave or didn't have cars and money to leave. Where is the city supposed to find on its own the money for buses, shelters, food and water for 100,000 people? " Since it is true that the levees were at risk, that that risk was known, that their upgrade had been ignored, and that the City was obviously at an extreme risk for just this sort of event, the city should have made it a priority to at least have had a plan to get them out and the resources to carry it out. It should have found the resources where all cities find them--property taxes, use taxes, and the judicious use of their limited resouces. At least get their people out of harm's way so that they did not die. I find fault with the locals for not prioritizing those resources and at least having some plan of action in effect. Get them out and then the rest of the country could kick in their resources to maintain them. There are millions of good people in the country and in other countries that are willing and able to help. What the city of Houston and all the other places that are housing refugees are doing, could and would have been done for another couple of hundred thousand--if we had had the chance. I fault the local guys for not giving us that chance. NO may be poor--but a lot of money does flow through it--they always brag about the $2 billion $ impact of the Super Bowl--perhaps a % of that should have been put into the disaster relief coffers for the last 25 years. Otherwise, I am in almost complete agreement. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy From padraig at well.com Sun Sep 4 12:37:21 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:37:21 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A037@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <371F2E44-B4A0-48A5-BF93-D45FB01A312B@well.com> I heard heard a gentleman on NPR the other day, I think he was out of Georgetown or Harvard, describe from a sociological aspect what to expect to see in New Orleans directly after the flood. His case was that most people were tired and frustrated and peacefully going around seeking food and shelter. Another group was demonstrating that frustration through gathering food from sources, including taking things from the shelves of stores. A third group contained the element referred to below. In his discussion, he said that we should not be responding to the behavior of looting and crime only from a violent perspective, but to ask the questions about why people are in such a situation that they are promoting crime and corruption. In the same way we need to ask why another human is so devoted to a cause as to be a suicide bomb--and seek to remedy the conditions that cause this--we need also to seek remedies for the people who have created the atmosphere in NO as described below. To paraphrase Girard from another thread here: we need to define and remove mimetic desire and replace it with something that values human life. As Percry would indicate, we need to stop the repetition and rotate toward grace. There can be no us and them now, only US. P. On Sep 4, 2005, at 1:03 AM, Wade Riddick wrote: > > >> I am at a bit of a loss about all the ranting and raving about the >> Federal Government's response to this huge disaster. As a member >> of local government and the super of the water treatment plant and >> the wastewater treatment plant (albeit in a very small town), I am >> at a loss as to where the City of New Orleans' emergency response >> plan was? >> >> > > You really have no idea about the horrendously vast scope of what > has happened here. About a million people have been displaced in > an area the size of Britain. Tens of thousands may be dead. The > individuals who survived are mostly unemployed and homeless in an > already poor area of America. I've watched my home town about > double in size in a week. That's a lot of damn people straining > limited resources. There's also only so much the city of New > Orleans can do when it's the Feds funding (or not funding as they > haven't done over the last five years) the Army Corps of Engineers > and the whole levee system. That whole system is not under local > control. A lot of the national guard's best equipment is in Iraq > along with a lot of local guardsmen who know the area well. We've > got strangers wandering around in a city many of the have never > even visited. The response by FEMA down here has been truly > pitiful. We haven't even gotten people out to St. Bernard yet. > They won't give us money to upgrade the levees and shore up the > coastline from erosion** despite the pleading of Republicans and > Democrats alike in the state delegation but Washington will work on > an estate tax break that only benefits maybe a hundred thousand > already rich families. Condoleeza Rice was shopping for $1500 > shoes on Thursday until she got accosted by someone in a shoe store > about it. Cheney didn't cancel any of his fundraisers. These > people are out of touch. > > And this isn't a black vs. white issue. What we haven't yet > discussed here is what Nagin alluded to on Thursday when he pleaded > for help on a radio interview: drugs and corruption. There's a > reason some of those 9th ward residents might want to shoot at > police. A few cops have been working for drug dealers over the > years murdering witnesses to various crimes. Cleaning up the > department has not been going well. There are also a lot of 9th > ward addicts going into withdrawal and shooting at those decent > officers who have remained on the job. Those are tough > circumstances for anybody. It's like what you see with the drugged > out militias in Haiti, Somalia or Beruit - a complete dissolution > of civil society. Does anybody want to have a real war on > addiction in this country? No. That might cut into our > narcissistic pursuit of gambling, drugs, hookers, sugar, booze, > shopping - you name it, we've got a different flavor to feed the > beast of endless sensation. The money laundering from some of > these more illegal activities has really decimated the competence > of some government officials and dispirited the rest of them. The > press just wants to ignore all this and pat each other on the back > in their talk shows where they interview other millionaire > reporters to find out what's going on in the real world. Fame, > shame, profit, pity, celebrity and *feeling* good have replaced > Christian notions of guilt, compassion, grace and *doing* good. > (Percy used to ask why we can feel so wrong when things are so good > and yet feel so good when things really are so wrong.) > > It hasn't helped having comments from Fox News about people > deserving this suffering because they were too stubborn to leave > before the storm. Most were sick and couldn't leave or didn't have > cars and money to leave. Where is the city supposed to find on its > own the money for buses, shelters, food and water for 100,000 > people? To say the least, having Hastert say what he did when > relief was nowhere to be seen really ticked off a lot of people and > gave us the impression the country's largely silent leadership had > given up on us and didn't care. Hastert is really slitting his own > throat by suggesting we bulldoze New Orleans. We refine his gas > and handle a huge chunk of imports and exporting going into and out > of Illinois - yet he's too stupid to know how much midwestern grain > is rotting because it can't get to market. He doesn't even show up > for the vote on the first appropriations bill. It also doesn't > help having Billy Graham's son pulling another Pat Robertson. > > The poor have always been disproportionately affected by lack of > education, crime, corruption and illness. The rich have resources > to fall back on; these people you're seeing on TV don't have > those. They've lost what little they had. And let me tell you > about your news coverage. I've talked to people who have come out > of there or who are working in government. The situation in New > Orleans is a lot more desperate and violent than widely reported > and the problems dealing with Washington are really horrendous - > but if you're working in local government, how much are you going > to bite the hand you want to feed you right now? > > I have been largely silent about the pinheaded Pharisees and > political autistics running this country for the last five years > because I have had to contend with the onerous task of just staying > alive myself. This isn't a president who believes in social > security with the little s's. He couldn't provide it in Iraq and > he can't do it here because he needs to pay for his tax cuts. He's > fired or run off anybody who's given him good advice on the topic. > Go take a look at how FEMA director Brown did in his last job. > > And, yeah, there are plenty of crooks in Louisiana too. It's not > just Washington - but, boy, if Louisiana is your standard for good > government then God help us all. You people in North Carolina > should be terrified that Republicans in Washington have succeeded > in making local government down here look like a bunch of brain > surgeons. I never thought I would live to see government become > something I would have to protect myself against on this scale. > > On a personal note as a landowner in Baton Rouge, I can't help > feeling a little like Lex Luthor in that Superman movie when he > tries to blow up California to turn his desert property into prime > beach front real estate. > > If I get the time, I'll try to write a more thoughtful response to > the non-secular elements of this tragedy. > > ** Coastal erosion is another reason Katrina was worse than > previous storms and it's the usual mess of collective goods > problems that a single state can't solve. It's not like the > intercoastal waterway which contributed to the erosion was a state > project or that Louisiana taxpayers built the levees in Missouri > which have lowered the amount of silt coming down the Mississippi. > Various acts also limit exactly what local government can do with > flood control on their own and hand the task over to the feds. > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sun Sep 4 18:08:00 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:08:00 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes In-Reply-To: <55.7ab6d042.304a7bde@aol.com> Message-ID: 2 lists? What's the other one? From chaslow53 at aol.com Sun Sep 4 19:52:38 2005 From: chaslow53 at aol.com (chaslow53 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 19:52:38 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Specifics of New Orleans Damage Message-ID: <8C77FC2DD4209ED-F64-34A5@FWM-R18.sysops.aol.com> Is there any reliable information about Percy landmarks? I am thinking specifically of the area along St. Charles Avenue by Loyola and Tulane, the Maple Street Book Shop (I received last week a small order from there mailed the Friday before the storm came--poignant) and Covington, though it is on the other side of the Lake and that would presumably be storm damage and not storm/flood damage. Chuck Lowry Brooklyn, New York -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sun Sep 4 21:07:58 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:07:58 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Specifics of New Orleans Damage In-Reply-To: <8C77FC2DD4209ED-F64-34A5@FWM-R18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I've been wondering the same thing. I had to cancel a planned trip last July, so I've still never been to New Orleans. Now I wonder if I'll ever go. I can't imagine that the New Orleans that emerges from this disaster will be anything like the New Orleans that we've lost. >From: chaslow53 at aol.com >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: [percy-l] Specifics of New Orleans Damage >Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 19:52:38 -0400 > >Is there any reliable information about Percy landmarks? I am thinking >specifically of the area along St. Charles Avenue by Loyola and Tulane, the >Maple Street Book Shop (I received last week a small order from there >mailed the Friday before the storm came--poignant) and Covington, though it >is on the other side of the Lake and that would presumably be storm damage >and not storm/flood damage. > >Chuck Lowry >Brooklyn, New York >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From armstron at ohiou.edu Sun Sep 4 21:37:51 2005 From: armstron at ohiou.edu (Ken Armstrong) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 21:37:51 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --On Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:08 PM -0700 RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > 2 lists? What's the other one? Just looking at the subject line, the other appears to be peirce-l (but don't ask me to pronounce it :) From karey at kareyperkins.com Sun Sep 4 21:58:07 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:58:07 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes References: Message-ID: <010601c5b1bd$42e8b750$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> PURSE ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Armstrong To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes --On Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:08 PM -0700 RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > 2 lists? What's the other one? Just looking at the subject line, the other appears to be peirce-l (but don't ask me to pronounce it :) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Sun Sep 4 21:58:42 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:58:42 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes References: <010601c5b1bd$42e8b750$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: <011201c5b1bd$5795fd70$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> ...as in, ladies handbag. ----- Original Message ----- From: Karey To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes PURSE ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Armstrong To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [peirce-l] RE: hurricanes --On Sunday, September 04, 2005 3:08 PM -0700 RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > 2 lists? What's the other one? Just looking at the subject line, the other appears to be peirce-l (but don't ask me to pronounce it :) -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wriddick at usa.net Mon Sep 5 04:43:03 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:43:03 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Specifics of New Orleans Damage In-Reply-To: <8C77FC2DD4209ED-F64-34A5@FWM-R18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wriddick at usa.net Mon Sep 5 04:46:58 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:46:58 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <20050904143507.FSP14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> References: Message-ID: >It should have found the resources where all cities find them--property >taxes, use taxes, and the judicious use of their limited resouces. I left out a discussion of the levee board - but then, even if one assumes no corruption on it and even if they hadn't expanded their bureaucratic mandate ridiculously wide, they still had to have all of their plans approved by the Army Corps and the last guy heading up the regional Corps was sacked by Bush for telling him not enough money was being spent. >giving us that chance. NO may be poor--but a lot of money does flow through A third of the city lives below the poverty line - and now really has nothing at all. >it--they always brag about the $2 billion $ impact of the Super >Bowl--perhaps a % of that should have been put into the disaster relief >coffers for the last 25 years. Like most major taxpayer funded stadiums, it's a sinkhole of corporate welfare and has been for years. I expect it will get rebuilt with federal funds and, if so, perhaps it can be turned into a better emergency shelter. Then again, given Bush's habits I really don't think any of these promises to rebuild New Orleans will be remembered a year later. From juliorivas at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 11:21:38 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:21:38 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: References: <20050904143507.FSP14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: Then again, given Bush's habits I really don't think any of these promises to rebuild New Orleans will be remembered a year later. - Show quoted text - Happy to know I'm not the only one in this list to know Mr. Bush's habits... :) Julio -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy On 9/5/05, Wade Riddick wrote: > > >It should have found the resources where all cities find them--property > >taxes, use taxes, and the judicious use of their limited resouces. > > I left out a discussion of the levee board - but then, even if one assumes > no corruption on it and even if they hadn't expanded their bureaucratic > mandate ridiculously wide, they still had to have all of their plans > approved by the Army Corps and the last guy heading up the regional Corps > was sacked by Bush for telling him not enough money was being spent. > > >giving us that chance. NO may be poor--but a lot of money does flow > through > > A third of the city lives below the poverty line - and now really has > nothing at all. > > >it--they always brag about the $2 billion $ impact of the Super > >Bowl--perhaps a % of that should have been put into the disaster relief > >coffers for the last 25 years. > > Like most major taxpayer funded stadiums, it's a sinkhole of corporate > welfare and has been for years. I expect it will get rebuilt with federal > funds and, if so, perhaps it can be turned into a better emergency > shelter. > Then again, given Bush's habits I really don't think any of these promises > to rebuild New Orleans will be remembered a year later. > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Mon Sep 5 11:37:27 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:37:27 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes References: <20050904143507.FSP14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <008f01c5b22f$b8841c80$1800a8c0@220acadf9550KP> Bush has fared incredibly poorly with this latest fiasco. Even Republicans are disillusioned with his performance - and there is hasty damage control (some of it lies) being conducted by the White House as we speak. Too bad all that energy being spent on political damage control wasn't spent on hurricane damage control. ----- Original Message ----- From: J Rivas-Pita To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Then again, given Bush's habits I really don't think any of these promises to rebuild New Orleans will be remembered a year later. - Show quoted text - Happy to know I'm not the only one in this list to know Mr. Bush's habits... :) Julio -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy On 9/5/05, Wade Riddick wrote: >It should have found the resources where all cities find them--property >taxes, use taxes, and the judicious use of their limited resouces. I left out a discussion of the levee board - but then, even if one assumes no corruption on it and even if they hadn't expanded their bureaucratic mandate ridiculously wide, they still had to have all of their plans approved by the Army Corps and the last guy heading up the regional Corps was sacked by Bush for telling him not enough money was being spent. >giving us that chance. NO may be poor--but a lot of money does flow through A third of the city lives below the poverty line - and now really has nothing at all. >it--they always brag about the $2 billion $ impact of the Super >Bowl--perhaps a % of that should have been put into the disaster relief >coffers for the last 25 years. Like most major taxpayer funded stadiums, it's a sinkhole of corporate welfare and has been for years. I expect it will get rebuilt with federal funds and, if so, perhaps it can be turned into a better emergency shelter. Then again, given Bush's habits I really don't think any of these promises to rebuild New Orleans will be remembered a year later. -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tcole at adobe.com Mon Sep 5 13:25:52 2005 From: tcole at adobe.com (Tim Cole) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:25:52 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <008f01c5b22f$b8841c80$1800a8c0@220acadf9550KP> References: <20050904143507.FSP14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> <008f01c5b22f$b8841c80$1800a8c0@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: Irrespective of whether or not one can argue that it's really the rest of the country's responsibility or not, the city and the economic activity it enables are critical. I think that both the feds and the local govts. have performed poorly in all this, particularly the latter (Nagin reminds me far more of Coleman Young than Giuliani in the way he's managed both his city and the pressure of this particular crisis). New Orleans is going to be rebuilt...because it has to be. Here's an article on the economic an strategic importance of New Orleans. ==================================== New Orleans: A Geopolitical Prize By George Friedman The American political system was founded in Philadelphia, but the American nation was built on the vast farmlands that stretch from the Alleghenies to the Rockies. That farmland produced the wealth that funded American industrialization: It permitted the formation of a class of small landholders who, amazingly, could produce more than they could consume. They could sell their excess crops in the east and in Europe and save that money, which eventually became the founding capital of American industry. But it was not the extraordinary land nor the farmers and ranchers who alone set the process in motion. Rather, it was geography -- the extraordinary system of rivers that flowed through the Midwest and allowed them to ship their surplus to the rest of the world. All of the rivers flowed into one -- the Mississippi -- and the Mississippi flowed to the ports in and around one city: New Orleans. It was in New Orleans that the barges from upstream were unloaded and their cargos stored, sold and reloaded on ocean-going vessels. Until last Sunday, New Orleans was, in many ways, the pivot of the American economy. For that reason, the Battle of New Orleans in January 1815 was a key moment in American history. Even though the battle occurred after the War of 1812 was over, had the British taken New Orleans, we suspect they wouldn't have given it back. Without New Orleans, the entire Louisiana Purchase would have been valueless to the United States. Or, to state it more precisely, the British would control the region because, at the end of the day, the value of the Purchase was the land and the rivers - which all converged on the Mississippi and the ultimate port of New Orleans. The hero of the battle was Andrew Jackson, and when he became president, his obsession with Texas had much to do with keeping the Mexicans away from New Orleans. During the Cold War, a macabre topic of discussion among bored graduate students who studied such things was this: If the Soviets could destroy one city with a large nuclear device, which would it be? The usual answers were Washington or New York. For me, the answer was simple: New Orleans. If the Mississippi River was shut to traffic, then the foundations of the economy would be shattered. The industrial minerals needed in the factories wouldn't come in, and the agricultural wealth wouldn't flow out. Alternative routes really weren't available. The Germans knew it too: A U-boat campaign occurred near the mouth of the Mississippi during World War II. Both the Germans and Stratfor have stood with Andy Jackson: New Orleans was the prize. Last Sunday, nature took out New Orleans almost as surely as a nuclear strike. Hurricane Katrina's geopolitical effect was not, in many ways, distinguishable from a mushroom cloud. The key exit from North America was closed. The petrochemical industry, which has become an added value to the region since Jackson's days, was at risk. The navigability of the Mississippi south of New Orleans was a question mark. New Orleans as a city and as a port complex had ceased to exist, and it was not clear that it could recover. The Ports of South Louisiana and New Orleans, which run north and south of the city, are as important today as at any point during the history of the republic. On its own merit, POSL is the largest port in the United States by tonnage and the fifth-largest in the world. It exports more than 52 million tons a year, of which more than half are agricultural products -- corn, soybeans and so on. A large proportion of U.S. agriculture flows out of the port. Almost as much cargo, nearly 17 million tons, comes in through the port -- including not only crude oil, but chemicals and fertilizers, coal, concrete and so on. A simple way to think about the New Orleans port complex is that it is where the bulk commodities of agriculture go out to the world and the bulk commodities of industrialism come in. The commodity chain of the global food industry starts here, as does that of American industrialism. If these facilities are gone, more than the price of goods shifts: The very physical structure of the global economy would have to be reshaped. Consider the impact to the U.S. auto industry if steel doesn't come up the river, or the effect on global food supplies if U.S. corn and soybeans don't get to the markets. The problem is that there are no good shipping alternatives. River transport is cheap, and most of the commodities we are discussing have low value-to-weight ratios. The U.S. transport system was built on the assumption that these commodities would travel to and from New Orleans by barge, where they would be loaded on ships or offloaded. Apart from port capacity elsewhere in the United States, there aren't enough trucks or rail cars to handle the long-distance hauling of these enormous quantities -- assuming for the moment that the economics could be managed, which they can't be. The focus in the media has been on the oil industry in Louisiana and Mississippi. This is not a trivial question, but in a certain sense, it is dwarfed by the shipping issue. First, Louisiana is the source of about 15 percent of U.S.-produced petroleum, much of it from the Gulf. The local refineries are critical to American infrastructure. Were all of these facilities to be lost, the effect on the price of oil worldwide would be extraordinarily painful. If the river itself became unnavigable or if the ports are no longer functioning, however, the impact to the wider economy would be significantly more severe. In a sense, there is more flexibility in oil than in the physical transport of these other commodities. There is clearly good news as information comes in. By all accounts, the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, which services supertankers in the Gulf, is intact. Port Fourchon, which is the center of extraction operations in the Gulf, has sustained damage but is recoverable. The status of the oil platforms is unclear and it is not known what the underwater systems look like, but on the surface, the damage - though not trivial -- is manageable. The news on the river is also far better than would have been expected on Sunday. The river has not changed its course. No major levees containing the river have burst. The Mississippi apparently has not silted up to such an extent that massive dredging would be required to render it navigable. Even the port facilities, although apparently damaged in many places and destroyed in few, are still there. The river, as transport corridor, has not been lost. What has been lost is the city of New Orleans and many of the residential suburban areas around it. The population has fled, leaving behind a relatively small number of people in desperate straits. Some are dead, others are dying, and the magnitude of the situation dwarfs the resources required to ameliorate their condition. But it is not the population that is trapped in New Orleans that is of geopolitical significance: It is the population that has left and has nowhere to return to. The oil fields, pipelines and ports required a skilled workforce in order to operate. That workforce requires homes. They require stores to buy food and other supplies. Hospitals and doctors. Schools for their children. In other words, in order to operate the facilities critical to the United States, you need a workforce to do it -- and that workforce is gone. Unlike in other disasters, that workforce cannot return to the region because they have no place to live. New Orleans is gone, and the metropolitan area surrounding New Orleans is either gone or so badly damaged that it will not be inhabitable for a long time. It is possible to jury-rig around this problem for a short time. But the fact is that those who have left the area have gone to live with relatives and friends. Those who had the ability to leave also had networks of relationships and resources to manage their exile. But those resources are not infinite -- and as it becomes apparent that these people will not be returning to New Orleans any time soon, they will be enrolling their children in new schools, finding new jobs, finding new accommodations. If they have any insurance money coming, they will collect it. If they have none, then -- whatever emotional connections they may have to their home -- their economic connection to it has been severed. In a very short time, these people will be making decisions that will start to reshape population and workforce patterns in the region. A city is a complex and ongoing process - one that requires physical infrastructure to support the people who live in it and people to operate that physical infrastructure. We don't simply mean power plants or sewage treatment facilities, although they are critical. Someone has to be able to sell a bottle of milk or a new shirt. Someone has to be able to repair a car or do surgery. And the people who do those things, along with the infrastructure that supports them, are gone -- and they are not coming back anytime soon. It is in this sense, then, that it seems almost as if a nuclear weapon went off in New Orleans. The people mostly have fled rather than died, but they are gone. Not all of the facilities are destroyed, but most are. It appears to us that New Orleans and its environs have passed the point of recoverability. The area can recover, to be sure, but only with the commitment of massive resources from outside -- and those resources would always be at risk to another Katrina. The displacement of population is the crisis that New Orleans faces. It is also a national crisis, because the largest port in the United States cannot function without a city around it. The physical and business processes of a port cannot occur in a ghost town, and right now, that is what New Orleans is. It is not about the facilities, and it is not about the oil. It is about the loss of a city's population and the paralysis of the largest port in the United States. Let's go back to the beginning. The United States historically has depended on the Mississippi and its tributaries for transport. Barges navigate the river. Ships go on the ocean. The barges must offload to the ships and vice versa. There must be a facility to empower this exchange. It is also the facility where goods are stored in transit. Without this port, the river can't be used. Protecting that port has been, from the time of the Louisiana Purchase, a fundamental national security issue for the United States. Katrina has taken out the port -- not by destroying the facilities, but by rendering the area uninhabited and potentially uninhabitable. That means that even if the Mississippi remains navigable, the absence of a port near the mouth of the river makes the Mississippi enormously less useful than it was. For these reasons, the United States has lost not only its biggest port complex, but also the utility of its river transport system -- the foundation of the entire American transport system. There are some substitutes, but none with sufficient capacity to solve the problem. It follows from this that the port will have to be revived and, one would assume, the city as well. The ports around New Orleans are located as far north as they can be and still be accessed by ocean-going vessels. The need for ships to be able to pass each other in the waterways, which narrow to the north, adds to the problem. Besides, the Highway 190 bridge in Baton Rouge blocks the river going north. New Orleans is where it is for a reason: The United States needs a city right there. New Orleans is not optional for the United States' commercial infrastructure. It is a terrible place for a city to be located, but exactly the place where a city must exist. With that as a given, a city will return there because the alternatives are too devastating. The harvest is coming, and that means that the port will have to be opened soon. As in Iraq, premiums will be paid to people prepared to endure the hardships of working in New Orleans. But in the end, the city will return because it has to. Geopolitics is the stuff of permanent geographical realities and the way they interact with political life. Geopolitics created New Orleans. Geopolitics caused American presidents to obsess over its safety. And geopolitics will force the city's resurrection, even if it is in the worst imaginable place. From wriddick at usa.net Tue Sep 6 04:09:48 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 03:09:48 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Will Percy and the great flood of '27 Message-ID: An old book review of John Barry's _Rising Tide_. which mentions Will Percy and the flood of 1927. From ttbrader at yahoo.com Tue Sep 6 21:34:01 2005 From: ttbrader at yahoo.com (Teresa Brader) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] N.O. Hurricane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050907013402.81370.qmail@web52913.mail.yahoo.com> I am late in responding, because I am one of the displaced citizens of the New Orleans area, a resident of Jefferson Parish. In response to local vs. federal govt., here are some questions I have pertaining to how federal govt. hampered local efforts: Why did FEMA turn away from the city two Wal-Mart tractor-trailers full of bottled water before the hurricane hit? Why did FEMA refuse the transportation of diesel fuel into Jefferson Parish before the hurricane hit? Why did FEMA turn off Jefferson Parish's emergency communication system before the hurricane hit? The parish sheriff then turned it back on and posted guards. Teresa -- born in New Orleans and lived in the area my whole life ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From juliorivas at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 07:19:29 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:19:29 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] N.O. Hurricane In-Reply-To: <20050907013402.81370.qmail@web52913.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050907013402.81370.qmail@web52913.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Teresa, I'm so sorry for what's happened. Beyond words. Have been watching things from Caracas on CNN since disaster struck, and can tell you we here are wholeheartedly with you. Also people from all over the world. Good questions that you pose. What's difficult and painful may be the answers. Take much care of yourself! Love, Julio On 9/6/05, Teresa Brader wrote: > > I am late in responding, because I am one of the > displaced citizens of the New Orleans area, a resident > of Jefferson Parish. In response to local vs. federal > govt., here are some questions I have pertaining to > how federal govt. hampered local efforts: > > Why did FEMA turn away from the city two Wal-Mart > tractor-trailers full of bottled water before the > hurricane hit? > > Why did FEMA refuse the transportation of diesel fuel > into Jefferson Parish before the hurricane hit? > > Why did FEMA turn off Jefferson Parish's emergency > communication system before the hurricane hit? The > parish sheriff then turned it back on and posted > guards. > > Teresa -- born in New Orleans and lived in the area my > whole life > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Thu Sep 8 00:54:59 2005 From: Robert_Pauley at oxy.com (Robert_Pauley at oxy.com) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:54:59 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes Message-ID: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A03A@olawexc8.naoxy.com> You have seen through my clever and condescending manipulations of surnames, Mr. Rivas-Pita. Hat's off. Or may I call you Julio? I don't wish to exclude you from the "fraternity." But really you may be assured these surnames you find so troubling are either an excess formality on my part, ignorance or uncertainty about what to call people I've never met. So I admit to inconsistency. In any case, you may call me Robert. "Third-world" was used as a synonym for inefficiency and corruption, not as a defamation of unnamed countries. I agree that such conditions may obtain anywhere, including the United States, as we have seen in New Orleans. This is to be deplored. What may be even worse here, however, beyond the breakdown of efficiency and transparency, is a "first-world" phenomenon involving a sick collusion between the media and those skilled and audacious enough to exploit it, that is to say, when the corrupt make preemptive attention-grabbing attacks in order to distract from their own corruptions and derelictions, and the media lap it up. They lap it up because it serves their need for antagonism and controversy as a "substantive" narrative to their ghoulish and pandering images (a narrative they're perfectly happy to see degenerate a la Maury Povich). Once this narrative departs from the course they would like to see it follow, they lose interest. This collusive spectacle serves the ulterior political agenda of both. Mostly I lament the slow death of Good Faith. I mean the spirit to unite in the aftermath of a disaster, the resolve and stamina to examine thoroughly and fairly, but at the proper time, what went wrong and who failed their civic charge, and the collectively apolitical determination to make things right no matter the public relations consequences. I think this did exist once, to some extent. The reason this should exist is because corruption and incompetence are very bad for free society, far worse than any storm. Unfortunately, I don't see a return of good faith for now. Instead I have a dismal vision of how this all will play out: a deepening mire of recrimination, with shrill charges and counter-charges, each citing one or another "official report" as evidence of their own righteousness and the other's malfeasance. Meanwhile, corruption and incompetence will whistle merrily along. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:59 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Mr. Pauley, I've seen often that when some members of this list subtly want to dismiss as irrelevant something posted by some other member, they -quite politely, ? la Anglaise- address the mentioned member as "Mr. -----", while the rest of the time it's just Tom, Willie or Jack -more brotherly fashion, that is to say, "We", as opposite to "They". Just some food for thought, ? la Percy... This said, Mr. Pauley, your remark of "inept, third-world city hall" is extremely peculiar, given the fact that all over he world we are watching with utter dismay -via CNN, for instance- the grossly inept (not to say criminal) reaction or lack of reaction of Mr. Bush's administration and the also grossly inept (not to say criminal) lack of preparation to cope with what was for weeks an announced disaster -not something unexpected as a tsunami or an earthquake. Among those who are doing something for the victims is, Mr. Pauley, Venezuela, which has already donated $ 1 million dollars via Citgo and which is still waiting the approval of Mr. Bush's administration to fly in a highly experienced and skilled rescue team, an offer that was made the day after Katrina struck. So perhaps Mr. Pauley you'd do well to think twice in the future when you emply the term "third world" in such a stereotyped way. You might find yourself surprised to discover that you too are living these days in a third world country -if you still have doubts about it, please turn on your TV set... With all best wishes, Julio Rivas-Pita On 9/2/05, Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: Agreed, Mr. Mitchell. And while we are human and fallible, some of us also are exceptionally corrupt and incompetent, as, for example, the entire political infrastructure of New Orleans, which knew about its weak sea walls for years and did nothing, and which tolerated also for years a violent and increasingly brazen criminal element (a violent crime rate 10 times the national average). New Orleans cannot manage itself on a good day, and so if one wants to know why it could not coordinate a swift and effective response on a sequence of very bad ones, one may of course look for blame to the distance as it one's predictable political cant, but it would make more sense to look no further than an inept, third-world city hall. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KMitch2626 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:56 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Cc: peirce-l at lyris.ttu.edu Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes well since both list are talking about it, and since both share common readers... why not chime in a piss people off. yes your all correct. did you know that our federal government, has strict guidlines on how it must respond to the suffereings of african-american people. the lack of help, was actually due to a specific wait time, we must follow, whenever there is a crisis involving poor black persons such as just happened. our governing officials actually sit and watch and chuckle at their suffering. then at the last moment, decide to send in help. oh wait, actually, they knew what was going to happen, and could have prevented it. we are human and fallible, and im certain mistakes were made and will be. but if you think this is race driven... call me cold, kick me off your listserves, but your full of shit! my rant amidst a time of great sadness for those hit by a hurricane, ken mitchell quotes: "It's the first week of school and I am utterly haunted by the horrors of the Gulf Coast area (Why is help taking so long? Why isn't the media asking the class or race questions?) I know these are not direct Percy points, but I think there are parallels. Your point about mimetic desire would be a lovely thread at which to pull. Surely this applies to Tom More and the man on the train (pre-crash) and even Will Barrett." "IMHO the most significant anachy assoicated with the disaster in New Orleans is the US Federal government's woefully indifferent and criminally inadquate response to the suffering of poor black americans. As an american I'm ashamed of our religious and racial bigotry. First Iraq and now this. May god forgive us. " -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Thu Sep 8 09:16:23 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:16:23 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A03A@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <20050908131603.BVSK5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Agreement = 100% Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:55 AM To: juliorivas at gmail.com; percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes You have seen through my clever and condescending manipulations of surnames, Mr. Rivas-Pita. Hat's off. Or may I call you Julio? I don't wish to exclude you from the "fraternity." But really you may be assured these surnames you find so troubling are either an excess formality on my part, ignorance or uncertainty about what to call people I've never met. So I admit to inconsistency. In any case, you may call me Robert. "Third-world" was used as a synonym for inefficiency and corruption, not as a defamation of unnamed countries. I agree that such conditions may obtain anywhere, including the United States, as we have seen in New Orleans. This is to be deplored. What may be even worse here, however, beyond the breakdown of efficiency and transparency, is a "first-world" phenomenon involving a sick collusion between the media and those skilled and audacious enough to exploit it, that is to say, when the corrupt make preemptive attention-grabbing attacks in order to distract from their own corruptions and derelictions, and the media lap it up. They lap it up because it serves their need for antagonism and controversy as a "substantive" narrative to their ghoulish and pandering images (a narrative they're perfectly happy to see degenerate a la Maury Povich). Once this narrative departs from the course they would like to see it follow, they lose interest. This collusive spectacle serves the ulterior political agenda of both. Mostly I lament the slow death of Good Faith. I mean the spirit to unite in the aftermath of a disaster, the resolve and stamina to examine thoroughly and fairly, but at the proper time, what went wrong and who failed their civic charge, and the collectively apolitical determination to make things right no matter the public relations consequences. I think this did exist once, to some extent. The reason this should exist is because corruption and incompetence are very bad for free society, far worse than any storm. Unfortunately, I don't see a return of good faith for now. Instead I have a dismal vision of how this all will play out: a deepening mire of recrimination, with shrill charges and counter-charges, each citing one or another "official report" as evidence of their own righteousness and the other's malfeasance. Meanwhile, corruption and incompetence will whistle merrily along. , OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Thu Sep 8 18:41:36 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:41:36 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes References: <20050908131603.BVSK5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <001801c5b4c6$78b613d0$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> MessageWe need to examine what went wrong, where, with whom, and why, despite any feelings that may be hurt in the process or any ill will this might engender to those involved, those in power, or those anywhere: "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." (George Santayana) A document a few years ago: "Osama bin Laden determined to attack within the United States" didn't get the attention or action it deserved from the administration, with tragic results. The reasons it was ignored were never explored at length or rectified. And now, despite a plethora of evidence and articles that the devastation of New Orleans would be inevitable if a category 5 hurricane hit, this didn't get the attention or action it deserved either. As a friend of mine says, this information - widely available to the public as well as the administration for many years - might as well have been entitled: "Hurricane Katrina determined to attack New Orleans." History is repeated. Why did FEMA fail? Why did the Bush administration claim no state of emergency was declared by the governor of Louisiana when the PDF copy of her Aug 26 declaration and the Aug 28 memo is actually available to the American public on the web? Why did the Washington Post and Newsweek reporters report from an "anonymous White House source") that no state of emergency was declared (when even piddling uninformed citizens such as myself saw that memo contradicting their reports? Why do WP and Newsweek feel compelled to protect an anonymous source that feeds them lies? Why has a group of FEMA medical personnel from Atlanta been moved all over the country, a different state each night, to help evacuees - but have yet to find or reach a single evacuee? Are they that hard to find? What are the answers to Teresa's questions? These are questions that deserve to be investigated and answered - that absolutely MUST be investigated and answered for the safety and well-being of the American people - not just our physical safety, but our economic well-being. The cornucopia of incompetencies (if that's all they were) is endless - and Teresa's questions are just the starting point - or perhaps, the answers to those particular questions are at the bottom of the investigation. The problem isn't that the city didn't have an evacuation plan to get carless or poor people out - many would have stayed anyway, as we are seeing now on the news: they won't even leave NOW for a variety of reasons. And people were actually safe in the Superdome and convention center during the hurricane. It's how it was dealt with afterwards; it's much bigger than that. Or rather - it was how it was dealt with YEARS before it happened. Here's a question that is just one answer to these questions, but by no means the complete answer: Why does George W. Bush fire or drive away every competent person who works for and advises him (Colin Powell; former FEMA director, James Lee Witt; ambassador/diplomat/expert Robert Wilson, husband of ousted CIA spy Valerie Plume, who investigated the African/Iraqi WMD issues) to surround himself with "yes" men - no matter how incompetent they may be? Does anyone wonder why this administration is incompetent? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes Agreement = 100% Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:55 AM To: juliorivas at gmail.com; percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricanes You have seen through my clever and condescending manipulations of surnames, Mr. Rivas-Pita. Hat's off. Or may I call you Julio? I don't wish to exclude you from the "fraternity." But really you may be assured these surnames you find so troubling are either an excess formality on my part, ignorance or uncertainty about what to call people I've never met. So I admit to inconsistency. In any case, you may call me Robert. "Third-world" was used as a synonym for inefficiency and corruption, not as a defamation of unnamed countries. I agree that such conditions may obtain anywhere, including the United States, as we have seen in New Orleans. This is to be deplored. What may be even worse here, however, beyond the breakdown of efficiency and transparency, is a "first-world" phenomenon involving a sick collusion between the media and those skilled and audacious enough to exploit it, that is to say, when the corrupt make preemptive attention-grabbing attacks in order to distract from their own corruptions and derelictions, and the media lap it up. They lap it up because it serves their need for antagonism and controversy as a "substantive" narrative to their ghoulish and pandering images (a narrative they're perfectly happy to see degenerate a la Maury Povich). Once this narrative departs from the course they would like to see it follow, they lose interest. This collusive spectacle serves the ulterior political agenda of both. Mostly I lament the slow death of Good Faith. I mean the spirit to unite in the aftermath of a disaster, the resolve and stamina to examine thoroughly and fairly, but at the proper time, what went wrong and who failed their civic charge, and the collectively apolitical determination to make things right no matter the public relations consequences. I think this did exist once, to some extent. The reason this should exist is because corruption and incompetence are very bad for free society, far worse than any storm. Unfortunately, I don't see a return of good faith for now. Instead I have a dismal vision of how this all will play out: a deepening mire of recrimination, with shrill charges and counter-charges, each citing one or another "official report" as evidence of their own righteousness and the other's malfeasance. Meanwhile, corruption and incompetence will whistle merrily along. , OSB, 1924-1996) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karey at kareyperkins.com Thu Sep 8 19:09:25 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:09:25 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Why FEMA failed Message-ID: <003701c5b4ca$5ba969f0$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> This article explains only part of the problem - but ironically, it echoes what I heard Robert Wilson say on NPR a couple of years ago: that Clinton, if there was a threat, would require all heads of agencies/departments (related to the problem) get together every morning to just think/talk about the issue if there was a threat - whatever the reason - and then to report to him. It made them pay attention to the problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why FEMA failed Ideologically opposed to a strong federal role in disaster relief and obsessed with terrorism, the Bush administration let a once-admired agency fall apart. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Farhad Manjoo FROM SALON.COM 9/7/05 Sept. 7, 2005 | Days before Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast, the city of Chicago drew up a list of resources it was willing to make available for relief efforts in areas that might be hit by the storm. Chicago told the Federal Emergency Management Agency that in the event of disaster, it could spare more than 100 Chicago police officers, 36 Fire Department personnel, eight emergency medical experts, more than 130 staff from Chicago's Department of Public Health, 140 staff from the Department of Streets & Sanitation, dozens of trucks and two boats. These teams, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley told federal officials, could work in affected areas independently, bringing their own food, water and other supplies with them. But FEMA apparently wasn't interested. Despite the host of resources Chicago offered, and despite the televised lack of resources in New Orleans, as of late last week, FEMA had requested only one thing from Chicago -- a single tanker truck. "I was shocked," Daley said at a news conference on Friday. "We are ready to provide considerably more help than they have requested. We are just waiting for a call." Daley wasn't the only generous donor to be rebuffed. Throughout last week, various local and state governments, corporations and nonprofit organizations across the nation attempted to help in the relief effort, only to be snubbed by federal officials -- officials who were themselves providing precious little aid to those in need. Citing security concerns, the Department of Homeland Security barred the American Red Cross from entering New Orleans with food. Five hundred Floridian airboaters were ready to rescue people stranded in inundated homes, but FEMA turned them down. Twenty sheriff's deputies from Loudoun County, Va., suffered a similar fate. And Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish, La., said on "Meet the Press" on Sunday that FEMA declined to let him accept three tanker trucks of water donated by Wal-Mart, as well as 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel stored in a Coast Guard vessel docked in his district. During the 1990s, FEMA was routinely praised as one of the best-functioning federal agencies. Its response to the Midwestern floods of 1993, the Northridge earthquake of 1994, and 1995's Oklahoma City terrorist attack are considered models of emergency response. By contrast, its performance during Katrina is almost universally acknowledged to have been abysmally poor. At first, FEMA's post-Katrina failure appears baffling: What happened to the once-great FEMA? But George Haddow, who served as the deputy chief of staff at FEMA under James Lee Witt, Bill Clinton's FEMA director, thinks that FEMA's current flaws are all too understandable -- and are a direct consequence of the Bush administration's decision to pull the federal government out of the natural disaster-relief business and turn over more power to state and local officials. Indeed, the White House's new response to the political disaster prompted by Katrina -- one in which officials are attempting to blame authorities in Louisiana, rather than in Washington, for the slow aid -- underscores the Bush philosophy. According to Haddow, instead of working with local officials to try to minimize the impacts of an impending storm, the White House has decided its best strategy is to keep its distance from people on the ground. That way if anything goes wrong, the White House can "attack, attack, attack." We began to see some of these attacks over the weekend. Sunday's Washington Post cited an anonymous Bush administration official who explained that one reason that the federal government didn't intervene more quickly in Louisiana was because Kathleen Blanco, the state's Democratic governor, failed to declare a state of emergency there, a necessary step for federal help to flow. An article in Newsweek repeats the same claim. But there's a problem with the White House's excuse: It's patently false. As Josh Marshall points out, Blanco declared a state of emergency on Aug. 26 -- a day before Bush declared a federal emergency in Louisiana. (You can see Blanco's official declaration in PDF format here; the Washington Post has corrected its article.) On Aug. 28 -- the day before Katrina made landfall -- Blanco followed her declaration with an official letter (PDF) to Bush that requested all manner of emergency supplies her state would need for the aftermath. Haddow says that these requests should have been enough -- more than enough -- to prompt a full-scale federal response. Under the Clinton administration's FEMA, with Witt as the head, a storm of Katrina's magnitude would have prompted federal and state officials to actually meet in order to coordinate their response. "You were all working together to anticipate needs," Haddow says. "You're all sitting in the same room when the things happened -- the Midwest flood, the Northridge quake, the Oklahoma City bombing and all the disasters we responded to. We were in the same room together and nobody had to point fingers." Close coordination with state officials was key to the Clinton administration's capacity to act quickly in the heat of a disaster, Haddow says. "We had a really solid partnership, so we received solid, timely information from the ground. Then we managed that information and turned it into a mission assignment." In other words, when people on the ground needed something, they knew who in the federal government to ask, and when the federal government had extra resources at the ready -- cops from Chicago, say, or water from Wal-Mart -- it would know where to send them. Contrast that situation to what happened after Katrina, when both Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, and Michael Brown, the FEMA director, admitted to several reporters that they had no idea that people were starving at the New Orleans Convention Center, even though the grim scene there had been played and replayed on television all day. The Bush administration's distance from local disaster-relief officials is by design. From the moment Bush stepped into office, he's been determined to move away from the coordinated state/local/federal disaster-relief approach used by Clinton. Instead, as Joe Allbaugh, Bush's first FEMA dirctor, told a congressional panel in 2001, Bush wanted to pull the federal government out of the disaster-relief business and aimed to "restore the predominant role of state and local response to most disasters." The federal government became even less involved in natural disaster relief after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, when FEMA's mission was shifted toward responding to terrorist attacks. In 2002, Congress created the Department of Homeland Security, and FEMA -- which Clinton had elevated to a Cabinet-level agency -- was made one department in the massive bureaucracy. As a result, although George W. Bush has a nickname for FEMA director Brown ("Brownie"), Brown enjoys far less clout under Bush than Witt enjoyed under Clinton, which Haddow says is an "incalculable loss of influence" for FEMA. State and local disaster-relief officials have been complaining about the lack of federal involvement in emergency response for some time. Trina Sheets, the executive director of the National Emergency Management Association, which represents local emergency personnel, told Salon that "since the Department of Homeland Security was established there has been a steady degradation of the capabilities." Local officials protested earlier this year, when the Department of Homeland Security proposed an internal reorganization that would officially absolve FEMA of its disaster-preparedness functions and instead hand disaster relief to a new agency. Sheets says that her group has expressed its "concern" about the move in a meeting with Chertoff. Other local disaster-relief directors have been more critical. The day after Katrina struck New Orleans, Eric Holdeman, director of the King County, Wash., Office of Emergency Management, wrote an Op-Ed in the Washington Post denouncing the reorganization plan as a "a death blow to an agency that was already on life support." He added: "Those of us in the business of dealing with emergencies find ourselves with no national leadership and no mentors." Of particular concern to local officials is the administration's increasing focus on terrorism to the exclusion of natural disasters. A recent report by the Government Accountability Office showed that "almost 3 of every 4 grant dollars appropriated to the [Department of Homeland Security] for first responders in fiscal year 2005 were for 3 primary programs that had an explicit focus on terrorism." More than $2 billion in grant money is available to local governments looking to improve the way they respond to terrorist attacks, but only $180 million is available under the main grant program for natural disaster funding, Homeland Security's Emergency Management Performance Grant program. The administration had proposed cutting that amount to $170 million, even though NEMA had identified a $264 million national shortfall in natural-disaster funding. "We have testified before Congress countless times, we have sent letters to DHS, we have met with Secretary Chertoff as recently as three weeks ago, pleading for a balanced approach between terrorism and natural disasters," Sheets said. And balance, Haddow agrees, is what's needed. "You gotta do both," he says. "You've got to fight terrorism." But you've got to respond to hurricanes and earthquakes, too. And when Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on the Saturday before Katrina struck the Gulf, he made a promise to residents that he would respond, Haddow says. "People died because they couldn't get it right," he says. "People died because they didn't deliver on their promise." Additional reporting by Michael Scherer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 21:35:24 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:35:24 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricanes In-Reply-To: <001801c5b4c6$78b613d0$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> References: <20050908131603.BVSK5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> <001801c5b4c6$78b613d0$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: Dear Karey, Impeccable, in my opinion. All these things you point out sadly remind me of Doris Lessing's premonitory novels such as The Four-Gated City, Memoirs of a Survivor and Shikasta... All over the world, it seems, we are being governed by -to say the least- very inept people. Why this should be so I'll leave to others to explain -why the decent, good, intelligent, capable people let themselves be governed by the stupid or the corrupt (everywhere, absolutely everywhere, to the best of my knowledge) All best wishes, Julio On 9/8/05, Karey wrote: > > We need to examine what went wrong, where, with whom, and why, despite any > feelings that may be hurt in the process or any ill will this might engender > to those involved, those in power, or those anywhere: > "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." (George > Santayana) > A document a few years ago: "Osama bin Laden determined to attack within > the United States" didn't get the attention or action it deserved from the > administration, with tragic results. The reasons it was ignored were never > explored at length or rectified. And now, despite a plethora of evidence and > articles that the devastation of New Orleans would be inevitable if a > category 5 hurricane hit, this didn't get the attention or action it > deserved either. As a friend of mine says, this information - widely > available to the public as well as the administration for many years - might > as well have been entitled: "Hurricane Katrina determined to attack New > Orleans." History is repeated. > Why did FEMA fail? Why did the Bush administration claim no state of > emergency was declared by the governor of Louisiana when the PDF copy of her > Aug 26 declaration and the Aug 28 memo is actually available to the American > public on the web? Why did the Washington Post and Newsweek reporters report > from an "anonymous White House source") that no state of emergency was > declared (when even piddling uninformed citizens such as myself saw that > memo contradicting their reports? Why do WP and Newsweek feel compelled to > protect an anonymous source that feeds them lies? Why has a group of FEMA > medical personnel from Atlanta been moved all over the country, a different > state each night, to help evacuees - but have yet to find or reach a single > evacuee? Are they that hard to find? What are the answers to Teresa's > questions? These are questions that deserve to be investigated and answered > - that absolutely MUST be investigated and answered for the safety and > well-being of the American people - not just our physical safety, but our > economic well-being. The cornucopia of incompetencies (if that's all they > were) is endless - and Teresa's questions are just the starting point - or > perhaps, the answers to those particular questions are at the bottom of the > investigation. > The problem isn't that the city didn't have an evacuation plan to get > carless or poor people out - many would have stayed anyway, as we are seeing > now on the news: they won't even leave NOW for a variety of reasons. And > people were actually safe in the Superdome and convention center during the > hurricane. It's how it was dealt with afterwards; it's much bigger than > that. Or rather - it was how it was dealt with YEARS before it happened. > Here's a question that is just one answer to these questions, but by no > means the complete answer: Why does George W. Bush fire or drive away every > competent person who works for and advises him (Colin Powell; former FEMA > director, James Lee Witt; ambassador/diplomat/expert Robert Wilson, husband > of ousted CIA spy Valerie Plume, who investigated the African/Iraqi WMD > issues) to surround himself with "yes" men - no matter how incompetent they > may be? Does anyone wonder why this administration is incompetent? > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tommy Armstrong > *To:* 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > *Sent:* Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [percy-l] hurricanes > > Agreement = 100% > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > *From:* percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto: > percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert_Pauley at oxy.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:55 AM > *To:* juliorivas at gmail.com; percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > *Subject:* Re: [percy-l] hurricanes > > You have seen through my clever and condescending manipulations of > surnames, Mr. Rivas-Pita. Hat's off. Or may I call you Julio? I don't wish > to exclude you from the "fraternity." > > But really you may be assured these surnames you find so troubling are > either an excess formality on my part, ignorance or uncertainty about what > to call people I've never met. So I admit to inconsistency. In any case, > you may call me Robert. > > "Third-world" was used as a synonym for inefficiency and corruption, not > as a defamation of unnamed countries. I agree that such conditions may > obtain anywhere, including the United States, as we have seen in New > Orleans. This is to be deplored. What may be even worse here, however, > beyond the breakdown of efficiency and transparency, is a "first-world" > phenomenon involving a sick collusion between the media and those skilled and > audacious enough to exploit it, that is to say, when the corrupt make > preemptive attention-grabbing attacks in order to distract from their own corruptions > and derelictions, and the media lap it up. They lap it up because it serves > their need for antagonism and controversy as a "substantive" narrative to > their ghoulish and pandering images (a narrative they're perfectly happy > to see degenerate a la Maury Povich). Once this narrative departs from the > course they would like to see it follow, they lose interest. This collusi > ve spectacle serves the ulterior political agenda of both. > > Mostly I lament the slow death of Good Faith. I mean the spirit to unite > in the aftermath of a disaster, the resolve and stamina to examine > thoroughly and fairly, but at the proper time, what went wrong and who > failed their civic charge, and the collectively apolitical determination to > make things right no matter the public relations consequences. I think this > did exist once, to some extent. The reason this should exist is because corruption > and incompetence are very bad for free society, far worse than any storm. > > Unfortunately, I don't see a return of good faith for now. Instead I have > a dismal vision of how this all will play out: a deepening mire of > recrimination, with shrill charges and counter-charges, each citing one or > another "official report" as evidence of their own righteousness and the > other's malfeasance. Meanwhile, corruption and incompetence will whistle > merrily along. > > , OSB, 1924-1996) > > ------------------------------ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wpercy2 at ibiblio.org Fri Sep 9 04:41:33 2005 From: wpercy2 at ibiblio.org (Henry P. Mills) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 03:41:33 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Percy-L, Is anyone able to provide Mr. Sammut any information on how to locate this article? Henry Mills > From: "John Sammut" > Reply-To: "John Sammut" > Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400 > To: > Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown > > Do you have a copy of the full Atlantic article "Countdown to a Meltdown"? > > If so, would you mind emailing it to me? > > Looks like a very interesting and important article. > > Thank you in advance. > > John Sammut > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "John Sammut" Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400 Size: 2714 URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 07:09:12 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:09:12 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have it -sent it to the list, in fact, but was told it was too long to be posted here. I've sent it to several members who requested it, and will of course send it to Mr. Sammut. Julio On 9/9/05, Henry P. Mills wrote: > > Dear Percy-L, > > Is anyone able to provide Mr. Sammut any information on how to locate this > article? > > Henry Mills > > > *From: *"John Sammut" <*jsammut at verizon.net*> > *Reply-To: *"John Sammut" <*jsammut at verizon.net*> > *Date: *Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400 > *To: *<*percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org*> > *Subject: *[percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown > > Do you have a copy of the full Atlantic article "Countdown to a Meltdown"? > > If so, would you mind emailing it to me? > > Looks like a very interesting and important article. > > Thank you in advance. > > John Sammut > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "John Sammut" > To: > Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:44:10 -0400 > Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown > Do you have a copy of the full Atlantic article "Countdown to a Meltdown"? > If so, would you mind emailing it to me? > Looks like a very interesting and important article. > Thank you in advance. > John Sammut > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Fri Sep 9 11:07:04 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:07:04 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050909150638.RONJ15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I think I read all the articles cited by Karey--and agree that it was a huge screw up. Plenty of blame to go around and obviously a lot of praise also, especially since the aid from FEMA, the DOD, and the country at large has kicked in. But it was still the local state and city's responsibilities to effect the evacuation and the pre-planning and position of resources to carry it out. They did not do their homework and they flunked the test. There are very real and important reasons why the first line of defense should be local and state, and then support should be from the Federal Government. The Feds should not simply be able to come in, declare an emergency, and then take over the operation. It seems that a vast number of people in this country see this as its proper role--but it is not--the request for aid needs to be done from the state to the feds, not letting the feds summarily dictate. Many companies had Emergency Management Plans for evacuation and safeguard of their resources in event of such a disaster, and many worked well. The City of New Orleans should have had one also. The State of Louisiana should have required them to have one. If their plan was to pass the logistics up to FEMA and the DOHS, then that was a bad plan, and when it did not work, their backup should have kicked in. There are questions and concerns also of the posse comitatus Act of 1879. "The Act embodies the traditional American principle of separating civilian and military authority and currently forbids the use of the Army and Air Force to enforce civilian laws." http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html This is not France or England or Canada where there is a national police force. We are still a federation of states, and those powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government in the constitution are retained by the individual states. >From the Newsweek Article cited. "Nagin himself had problems of his own. He had opened up the Superdome to thousands of people-but nobody seemed to have had a plan to care for them or to get them out of there. There were promises of buses that never came. Some 500 National Guardsmen showed up to keep order, but the nervous young soldiers waved their weapons about. People began to complain that they were being held in a prison. Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco seemed uncertain and sluggish, hesitant to declare martial law or a state of emergency, which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help. Washington, too, was slow to react to the crisis. The Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, was reluctant for the military to take a lead role in disaster relief, a job traditionally performed by FEMA and by the National Guard, which is commanded by state governors. President Bush could have "federalized" the National Guard in an instant. That's what his father, President George H.W. Bush, did after the Los Angeles riots in 1992. Back then, the Justice Department sent Robert Mueller, a jut-jawed ex-Marine (who is now FBI director), to take charge, showing, in effect, that the cavalry had arrived. FEMA's current head, Michael Brown, has appeared over his head and even a little clueless in news interviews. He is far from the sort of take-charge presence New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani conveyed after 9/11." Tommy Armstrong You can get all A's and still flunk life. Walker Percy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttbrader at yahoo.com Fri Sep 9 16:48:58 2005 From: ttbrader at yahoo.com (Teresa Brader) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <20050909150638.RONJ15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <20050909204858.71407.qmail@web52907.mail.yahoo.com> She declared a state of emergency on August 26. Is that not soon enough? Teresa > >From the Newsweek Article cited. > "... Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco seemed > uncertain and sluggish, hesitant to declare martial > law or a state of emergency, which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help. ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From tfa at brickengraver.com Fri Sep 9 18:04:09 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:04:09 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <20050909204858.71407.qmail@web52907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050909220351.YVHC14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> The declaration of the state of emergency was only the first step. She was declaring a state of emergency for the State of Louisiana. Read it. That declaration gave her as governor to delclare martial law and do such things as she deemed fit to "preserve the lives and property of the citizens of the State of Louisiana" She did not do so and I contend did not act to fulfill the mission of "preserving the lives..." This puts the "director of the state (my emphasis) office of Homeland Security, essentially in charge under the Governor of the State. We are not talking about any request to the Federal Government at this point. Now it is true that perhaps the President could have pre-empted the state with the powers of the NRP--but to do so would have been essentially subjugating the States Office of Security and Emergency Preparedness to that of the Federal government. And Ms. Blanco subsequently stated that she was against such a command structure. The state National Guard is under her command, but never can be the Military forces of the US. The President cannot simply send in the 82nd Airborne or the Marines to enforce civil state and local laws. In fact, I think this might have been the first use as such in American History--might be wrong. Federal troops were sent to Little Rock, but that was to enforce federal laws that the local establishment refused to enforce. But no matter how you look at it there was an incredible "cluster screwup" as a good redneck would call it. Blame is everywhere to be found--but to rest it solely on an incompetent administration is only looking at the tip of the iceberg. The 80% of the iceberg that remains below water are local and state authorities, criminals, incompetents, and mostly just unprepared normal people. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Teresa Brader Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:49 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown She declared a state of emergency on August 26. Is that not soon enough? Teresa > >From the Newsweek Article cited. > "... Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco seemed uncertain and > sluggish, hesitant to declare martial law or a state of emergency, > which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help. ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 37373 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17883 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25335 bytes Desc: not available URL: From armstron at ohiou.edu Sat Sep 10 08:25:53 2005 From: armstron at ohiou.edu (Ken Armstrong) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:25:53 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <20050909220351.YVHC14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> References: <20050909220351.YVHC14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupst airs> Message-ID: <3015C07BC57BF7E3E56955EC@athens-dialup-170-12.ispnetbilling.com> --On Friday, September 09, 2005 6:04 PM -0400 Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > But no matter how you look at it there was an incredible "cluster > screwup" as a good redneck would call it. Blame is everywhere to be > found--but to rest it solely on an incompetent administration is only > looking at the tip of the iceberg. The 80% of the iceberg that remains > below water are local and state authorities, criminals, incompetents, and > mostly just unprepared normal people. You're in denial. If the 800 pound federal gorilla had done the right thing, it would have dwarfed the 60 pound state chimp. Those with the most power and the huge resources needed to step up, dump the rules, and move immediately. Not only did they not take the action the situation called for, they stood on bureaucratic procedures, saying incredibly stupid things like the people in the superdome weren't a fact until they became a fact through bureaucratic procedure. The niceties that you delineate may be perfectly true, but are largely irrelevant in relation to the federal "response" to actual events. Everyone was incompetent? This is true and needs to be acknowledged. But to those with the greatest resources goes the greatest responsibility. Thanks to the character of the oversight provided by Michael Brown, the federal response was retarded, and this situation could not tolerate a retarded response. Ken Armstrong From padraig at well.com Sat Sep 10 11:23:19 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:23:19 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <3015C07BC57BF7E3E56955EC@athens-dialup-170-12.ispnetbilling.com> References: <20050909220351.YVHC14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupst airs> <3015C07BC57BF7E3E56955EC@athens-dialup-170-12.ispnetbilling.com> Message-ID: <3EEC85E1-E1EF-495D-B331-4E6813C7A7D6@well.com> Ken, While I agree with what you say mostly, I would hope a list such as this would avoid this kind of rhetoric. I know my developmentally disabled uncle would have given the shirt off his back to anyone in pain so I have difficulty calling the federal lack of response "retarded." Negligent and pain-causing, yes, but not "retarded." Patrick On Sep 10, 2005, at 5:25 AM, Ken Armstrong wrote: > Thanks to the character of the oversight provided > by Michael Brown, the federal response was retarded, and this > situation > could not tolerate a retarded response. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttbrader at yahoo.com Sat Sep 10 13:45:20 2005 From: ttbrader at yahoo.com (Teresa Brader) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <3015C07BC57BF7E3E56955EC@athens-dialup-170-12.ispnetbilling.com> Message-ID: <20050910174520.41662.qmail@web52904.mail.yahoo.com> Going along with this, if the levees and barriers had been fixed like they should have been with the federal government money that should have been allocated years ago, the city would not have so many enormous problems right now. The city itself was only flooded after the levee was breached -- a levee that is under federal jurisdiction. Teresa --- Ken Armstrong wrote: > You're in denial. If the 800 pound federal gorilla > had done the right > thing, it would have dwarfed the 60 pound state > chimp. Those with the most > power and the huge resources needed to step up, dump > the rules, and move > immediately. Not only did they not take the action > the situation called > for, they stood on bureaucratic procedures, saying > incredibly stupid things > like the people in the superdome weren't a fact > until they became a fact > through bureaucratic procedure. The niceties that > you delineate may be > perfectly true, but are largely irrelevant in > relation to the federal > "response" to actual events. Everyone was > incompetent? This is true and > needs to be acknowledged. But to those with the > greatest resources goes the > greatest responsibility. Thanks to the character of > the oversight provided > by Michael Brown, the federal response was retarded, > and this situation > could not tolerate a retarded response. > > Ken Armstrong > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From ttbrader at yahoo.com Sat Sep 10 13:53:22 2005 From: ttbrader at yahoo.com (Teresa Brader) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <3EEC85E1-E1EF-495D-B331-4E6813C7A7D6@well.com> Message-ID: <20050910175322.42627.qmail@web52904.mail.yahoo.com> Perhaps I shouldn't try and speak for Ken, but I took his use of the word 'retarded' to be used in its original meaning: 'to slow up, especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment'. Teresa --- Patrick Lynch wrote: > Ken, > While I agree with what you say mostly, I would hope > a list such as > this would avoid this kind of rhetoric. I know my > developmentally > disabled uncle would have given the shirt off his > back to anyone in > pain so I have difficulty calling the federal lack > of response > "retarded." Negligent and pain-causing, yes, but not > "retarded." > Patrick > > On Sep 10, 2005, at 5:25 AM, Ken Armstrong wrote: > > > Thanks to the character of the oversight provided > > by Michael Brown, the federal response was > retarded, and this > > situation > > could not tolerate a retarded response. ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From tfa at brickengraver.com Sat Sep 10 14:27:36 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:27:36 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <3015C07BC57BF7E3E56955EC@athens-dialup-170-12.ispnetbilling.com> Message-ID: <20050910182733.KHQG15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> OK -- It obviously seems that we have a major difference of opinion on the structure of the United States and the responsibilities of the various levels of government. This has been an historical argument since before the union was formed. It seems an irreconcilable rift in philosophies between two points of view. That being said, I really do respect the arguments of the other side, I just respectfully disagree, as the clich? goes. And, I for one am going to look forward instead of backward--and hope that from this fiasco, a good deal of good will come out. I know the pumps and levees will be fixed. That there will be intense scrutiny to rebuild a city with new values. I just heard an interview on NPR of two evacuees that were dispersed to other places in the US and they said they had no intention of going back to that crime and drug laden city. The city had done nothing for them. At least for them, it was a positive, and their lives will probably much better off as a result--at least they think that their lives will be. Americans of all persuasions are notorious for taking action, but only after a crisis forces that action. There is an incredible lack of a "preventative maintenance" mentality across all segments of society, and especially government at ALL levels. Perhaps, this event was large enough to help change that philosophy. Ken says: "Those with the most power and the huge resources needed to step up, dump the rules, and move immediately." Scary, very scary. Dumping rules is almost always scary. Especially ones set up to protect the chimps from the gorillas. I do not want some darn gorilla telling me how to live and making the decision of what is in my best interest. I might accept their advice on how I might be able to do things better, but will not just coming in and forcing me to do it their way. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land From karey at kareyperkins.com Sat Sep 10 15:03:08 2005 From: karey at kareyperkins.com (Karey) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:03:08 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown References: <20050910182733.KHQG15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <002301c5b63a$48ce5f90$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> >From snopes.com (which, you may know, is the authoritative source for de-bunking "urban legends"): a.. On Friday (26 August), Governor Blanco did indeed declare a state of emergency for the state of Louisiana in advance of Katrina's making landfall in the Gulf Coast. a.. On Saturday (27 August), Governor Blanco asked President Bush to declare a state of emergency at the federal level for the state of Louisiana. a.. The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day (Saturday) by declaring the emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency." More at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp FEMA had the authorization to move in. The city did not have the resources to address the problem which was far greater than a hurricane (and that should have been addressed at the federal level years earlier). ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown OK -- It obviously seems that we have a major difference of opinion on the structure of the United States and the responsibilities of the various levels of government. This has been an historical argument since before the union was formed. It seems an irreconcilable rift in philosophies between two points of view. That being said, I really do respect the arguments of the other side, I just respectfully disagree, as the clich? goes. And, I for one am going to look forward instead of backward--and hope that from this fiasco, a good deal of good will come out. I know the pumps and levees will be fixed. That there will be intense scrutiny to rebuild a city with new values. I just heard an interview on NPR of two evacuees that were dispersed to other places in the US and they said they had no intention of going back to that crime and drug laden city. The city had done nothing for them. At least for them, it was a positive, and their lives will probably much better off as a result--at least they think that their lives will be. Americans of all persuasions are notorious for taking action, but only after a crisis forces that action. There is an incredible lack of a "preventative maintenance" mentality across all segments of society, and especially government at ALL levels. Perhaps, this event was large enough to help change that philosophy. Ken says: "Those with the most power and the huge resources needed to step up, dump the rules, and move immediately." Scary, very scary. Dumping rules is almost always scary. Especially ones set up to protect the chimps from the gorillas. I do not want some darn gorilla telling me how to live and making the decision of what is in my best interest. I might accept their advice on how I might be able to do things better, but will not just coming in and forcing me to do it their way. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 16:09:47 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:09:47 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown In-Reply-To: <002301c5b63a$48ce5f90$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> References: <20050910182733.KHQG15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> <002301c5b63a$48ce5f90$0201000a@220acadf9550KP> Message-ID: Hi all! Just got this from a friend from other list, and thought you might want to have a look at it: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mitchell Ginsberg Date: Sep 10, 2005 4:02 PM Subject: a view on Washington To: Mitchell Ginsberg I wonder if this is resonating at all in the USA? if it striking a chord of discontent, or simply the wishful dream of someone whose sense of what will happen is a bit shaky? I have less of an idea than he does, I take it! Mitchell http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091005X.shtml ==================== All best wishes, Julio On 9/10/05, Karey wrote: > > From snopes.com (which, you may know, is the > authoritative source for de-bunking "urban legends"): > On Friday (26 August), Governor Blanco did indeed declarea state of emergency for the state of Louisiana in advance of Katrina's > making landfall in the Gulf Coast. > > On Saturday (27 August), Governor Blanco askedPresident Bush to declare a state of emergency at the federal level for the > state of Louisiana. > > The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day > (Saturday) by declaringthe emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at > its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts > of the emergency." > More at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp > FEMA had the authorization to move in. The city did not have the > resources to address the problem which was far greater than a hurricane (and > that should have been addressed at the federal level years earlier). > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tommy Armstrong > *To:* 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > *Sent:* Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: [percy-l] Countdown to a Meltdown > > > OK -- It obviously seems that we have a major difference of opinion on the > structure of the United States and the responsibilities of the various > levels of government. This has been an historical argument since before > the > union was formed. It seems an irreconcilable rift in philosophies between > two points of view. That being said, I really do respect the arguments of > the other side, I just respectfully disagree, as the clich? goes. > > And, I for one am going to look forward instead of backward--and hope that > from this fiasco, a good deal of good will come out. I know the pumps and > levees will be fixed. That there will be intense scrutiny to rebuild a > city > with new values. I just heard an interview on NPR of two evacuees that > were > dispersed to other places in the US and they said they had no intention of > going back to that crime and drug laden city. The city had done nothing > for > them. At least for them, it was a positive, and their lives will probably > much better off as a result--at least they think that their lives will be. > > > Americans of all persuasions are notorious for taking action, but only > after > a crisis forces that action. There is an incredible lack of a > "preventative > maintenance" mentality across all segments of society, and especially > government at ALL levels. Perhaps, this event was large enough to help > change that philosophy. > > Ken says: > "Those with the most power and the huge resources needed to step up, dump > the rules, and move immediately." > > Scary, very scary. Dumping rules is almost always scary. Especially ones > set > up to protect the chimps from the gorillas. > > I do not want some darn gorilla telling me how to live and making the > decision of what is in my best interest. I might accept their advice on > how > I might be able to do things better, but will not just coming in and > forcing > me to do it their way. > > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpmills3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 11 11:02:37 2005 From: hpmills3 at austin.rr.com (Henry Mills) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:02:37 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community Message-ID: Moratorium As Percy-L manager, I submit this email to the community announcing a moratorium on all further hurricane commentary or political commentary that is not discussed relative to the work or thought of Walker Percy. This statement is not to exclude the introduction of outside subjects and perspectives as they may seem relevant to Percy discussion. Rather, it is simpy to underscore that Percy?s thought or its relationship to a topic should be the base of all list commentary, including discussion of current events. If any member of the community does not agree with this intent or focus, they are cordially invited to unsubscribe. Henry Mills Percy-L Manager -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Sun Sep 11 12:52:36 2005 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:52:36 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community Message-ID: <15b.58ff449f.3055bad4@aol.com> First time the list has come alive in months, with dialogue that Percy would have found germane to the moment and, I'm betting, to his own thought, particularly on white-black relations in NOLA. Questionable call, Mr. Moderator. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 12:58:34 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:58:34 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community In-Reply-To: <15b.58ff449f.3055bad4@aol.com> References: <15b.58ff449f.3055bad4@aol.com> Message-ID: In complete agreement, Morris. This list had been "dead" for many months, to the best of my knowledge, and I fully agree with you about the relevancy of the most important issues lately discussed. All best wishes, Julio On 9/11/05, MorrisJD at aol.com wrote: > > First time the list has come alive in months, with dialogue that Percy > would have found germane to the moment and, I'm betting, to his own thought, > particularly on white-black relations in NOLA. Questionable call, Mr. > Moderator. > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Sep 11 13:11:23 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:11:23 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050911171114.SZRF15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> well it has come to life a bit and met people from from Venezuala to Calif to Texas etc. --Julio did start something with his first post wheter it was accurate or not. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "To be born and to live is to be dislocated.Pascal" _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 12:59 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community In complete agreement, Morris. This list had been "dead" for many months, to the best of my knowledge, and I fully agree with you about the relevancy of the most important issues lately discussed. All best wishes, Julio On 9/11/05, MorrisJD at aol.com wrote: First time the list has come alive in months, with dialogue that Percy would have found germane to the moment and, I'm betting, to his own thought, particularly on white-black relations in NOLA. Questionable call, Mr. Moderator. -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Sun Sep 11 13:59:44 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:59:44 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1126461584.43247090b99b8@webmail.iu.edu> THANK YOU, HENRY!! Quoting Henry Mills : > Moratorium > > As Percy-L manager, I submit this email to the community announcing a > moratorium on all further hurricane commentary or political commentary that > is not discussed relative to the work or thought of Walker Percy. This > statement is not to exclude the introduction of outside subjects and > perspectives as they may seem relevant to Percy discussion. Rather, it is > simpy to underscore that Percy?s thought or its relationship to a topic > should be the base of all list commentary, including discussion of current > events. If any member of the community does not agree with this intent or > focus, they are cordially invited to unsubscribe. > > Henry Mills > Percy-L Manager > > From Nikkibar at aol.com Sun Sep 11 16:59:32 2005 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:59:32 EDT Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" Message-ID: Dear Dave, It would be helpful if you would bounce all of my recent notes to the list for the info of anyone interested. Net access is still very dicey and uncertain. if anyone has any reliable information about the best vegetable oil to spread on a swimming pool to kill mosquito larvae without wrecking the eventual reconstruction of the pool, I'd be glad of a recommendation. At this point West Nile virus is a concern. Send direct to _nikkibar at aol.com_ (mailto:nikkibar at aol.com) with West Nile rec. in the subject box. Thanks Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daveduty at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 11 19:27:12 2005 From: daveduty at austin.rr.com (Dave Duty) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:27:12 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4324BD50.10209@austin.rr.com> As per Nikki's request -- below are two personal email he sent me in regards to my queries about his safety as a result of Hurricane Katrina: Dear Dave, Sorry to be so slow in responding but our power has been knocked out and just come back at my office. We're still here and with a whole skin and all the pets are well. You would not recognize Red Bluff however. You're two of the last few lucky ones who got to see the place in the full flush of its horticultural grandure before devastation set in. But we're gradually little by little putting things back together. It has now been two weeks of 98% humidity and 90 + degrees of heat. It is what ms dickenson would call "all we need of hell." The extent of the destruction of Red Bluff is just beginning to sink in and this evening I must go home and pour cornopil on the pool and snake-pond to keep the skeeters at bay. The pets have been remarkably resiliant though they're as depressed as we are. And then there's that consoling man Bush looking forward to a bosky sundowner on the porch of Trent Lott's Phoenix like new contemplated house. When Walker wrote of the good feelings produced by oncoming hurricanes, I don't think he had category 5 in his mind's eye. We stayed through it all but the Percy family left town for this one and it is now impossible to reach their house by car and will remain so for another week or more. The snarl of chainsaws is ubiquitous. Thanks for all your good wishes, however. Nikki and Carol Pepper Blue, Morgan Whiteney, Isambard Brunell, Tundifur Mudpaws and the tribe of itenerant racoons. Dear Dave, Our problem wasn't flooding and I don't think flooding would have threatened Bunt. What was utterly demoralizing was the crash of tall pine trees that demolished houses. Bunt is in Jackson Miss I understand and her driveway is blocked by many trees and I'v e no idea how bad the house may have been injured although the Moore's next door appeared sound. That was the French provinical that Walker lived in when writing the books and that they later gave to Ann and David, thir daughter and son in law, when he and Bunt moved into the newer and smaller Cajun Cottage that they built next door. The devastation is hard to imagine and even photos don't capture the extent of it. We are without power and water although there are parts of Covington (like my office where I am typing this) which have both. Security-wise we are all ok although I have a loaded rifle by my bedside and we lock the cars when we leave them. The horror stories which I understand filled the media just after the storm do not apply to us. We have had an utter news blackout because of our power losses and have depended on NPR to keep us informed. Carol (ever the firm knothead) refuses to believe anything they say, however, and I must admit that may of the reports we get from eyewitnesses are so frequently in conlict with each other and the media as well, that we are somewhat bewildered about what to believe. Your kind offer of help is truly appreciated but I think that the utility companies will soon have things up and running here and that there isn't anything that we need that you can assist with. If you want to reread the appropriate WP book, I would go for Love In the Ruins. As ever. Nikki Nikkibar at aol.com wrote: > Dear Dave, > > It would be helpful if you would bounce all of my recent notes to the > list for the info of anyone interested. Net access is still very dicey > and uncertain. if anyone has any reliable information about the best > vegetable oil to spread on a swimming pool to kill mosquito larvae > without wrecking the eventual reconstruction of the pool, I'd be glad > of a recommendation. At this point West Nile virus is a concern. Send > direct to nikkibar at aol.com with West Nile > rec. in the subject box. > > Thanks > > Nikki > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 20:20:37 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:20:37 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: <4324BD50.10209@austin.rr.com> References: <4324BD50.10209@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: Dear Nikki and Carol, Great to know you two and your pets are all in one piece, and that you've managed to keep a healthy sense of humor! :) (which, with 98 per cent humidity and 90 plus temperatures is no small feat, not counting the rest of hell...) Love from Caracas, Julio On 9/11/05, Dave Duty wrote: > > As per Nikki's request -- below are two personal email he sent me in > regards to my queries about his safety as a result of Hurricane Katrina: > > Dear Dave, > Sorry to be so slow in responding but our power has been knocked out and > just come back at my office. > We're still here and with a whole skin and all the pets are well. You > would not recognize Red Bluff however. You're two of the last few lucky ones > who got to see the place in the full flush of its horticultural grandure > before devastation set in. But we're gradually little by little putting > things back together. > It has now been two weeks of 98% humidity and 90 + degrees of heat. It is > what ms dickenson would call "all we need of hell." The extent of the > destruction of Red Bluff is just beginning to sink in and this evening I > must go home and pour cornopil on the pool and snake-pond to keep the > skeeters at bay. > The pets have been remarkably resiliant though they're as depressed as we > are. > And then there's that consoling man Bush looking forward to a bosky > sundowner on the porch of Trent Lott's Phoenix like new contemplated house. > When Walker wrote of the good feelings produced by oncoming hurricanes, I > don't think he had category 5 in his mind's eye. We stayed through it all > but the Percy family left town for this one and it is now impossible to > reach their house by car and will remain so for another week or more. The > snarl of chainsaws is ubiquitous. Thanks for all your good wishes, however. > Nikki and Carol > Pepper Blue, Morgan Whiteney, Isambard Brunell, Tundifur Mudpaws and the > tribe of itenerant racoons. > > > > > > > > Dear Dave, > Our problem wasn't flooding and I don't think flooding would have > threatened Bunt. What was utterly demoralizing was the crash of tall pine > trees that demolished houses. Bunt is in Jackson Miss I understand and her > driveway is blocked by many trees and I'v e no idea how bad the house may > have been injured although the Moore's next door appeared sound. That was > the French provinical that Walker lived in when writing the books and that > they later gave to Ann and David, thir daughter and son in law, when he and > Bunt moved into the newer and smaller Cajun Cottage that they built next > door. The devastation is hard to imagine and even photos don't capture the > extent of it. We are without power and water although there are parts of > Covington (like my office where I am typing this) which have both. > Security-wise we are all ok although I have a loaded rifle by my bedside > and we lock the cars when we leave them. The horror stories which I > understand filled the media just after the storm do not apply to us. We have > had an utter news blackout because of our power losses and have depended on > NPR to keep us informed. Carol (ever the firm knothead) refuses to believe > anything they say, however, and I must admit that may of the reports we get > from eyewitnesses are so frequently in conlict with each other and the media > as well, that we are somewhat bewildered about what to believe. > Your kind offer of help is truly appreciated but I think that the utility > companies will soon have things up and running here and that there isn't > anything that we need that you can assist with. If you want to reread the > appropriate WP book, I would go for *Love In the Ruins.* > ** > *As ever.* > ** > *Nikki* > > > > > > > Nikkibar at aol.com wrote: > > Dear Dave, > It would be helpful if you would bounce all of my recent notes to the > list for the info of anyone interested. Net access is still very dicey and > uncertain. if anyone has any reliable information about the best vegetable > oil to spread on a swimming pool to kill mosquito larvae without wrecking > the eventual reconstruction of the pool, I'd be glad of a recommendation. At > this point West Nile virus is a concern. Send direct to nikkibar at aol.comwith West Nile rec. in the subject box. > Thanks > Nikki > > ------------------------------ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nikkibar at aol.com Sun Sep 11 22:13:50 2005 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:13:50 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Specifics of New Orleans Damage Message-ID: <200.9d5b51f.30563e5e@aol.com> The uptown section of New Orleans is in pretty good shape, at least by report. Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Mon Sep 12 18:38:05 2005 From: Robert_Pauley at oxy.com (Robert_Pauley at oxy.com) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:38:05 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community Message-ID: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A03B@olawexc8.naoxy.com> I agree. Respectfully, the call is peremptory and unnecessary, I think. Conversations were lively yet civil for the most part on a hitherto moribund list. In my opinion Walker Percy himself would not have had much use for either non-stop talk of Walker Percy or long spells of no talk at all. -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of MorrisJD at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:53 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Notice to Percy-L Community First time the list has come alive in months, with dialogue that Percy would have found germane to the moment and, I'm betting, to his own thought, particularly on white-black relations in NOLA. Questionable call, Mr. Moderator. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wpercy2 at ibiblio.org Mon Sep 12 20:34:08 2005 From: wpercy2 at ibiblio.org (Henry P. Mills) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:34:08 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Message to the Percy-L Community Message-ID: Dear Percy-L, I submit the below notice a second time for those who may have missed it during its first posting yesterday. Thank you to the members of the community who have written to me expressing concern about the recent digressions of the list away from any association with Percy-related topics as well as the frequently demeaning ways in which they were presented. From my impressions of reading the work of Percy and what I know of the man, civility and respect were values that ultimately extended both from his person and literary corpus. Such are the values of this community no matter how suitable or timely a given topic may be. Henry Mills --------------- Moratorium As Percy-L manager, I submit this email to the community announcing a moratorium on all further hurricane commentary or political commentary that is not discussed relative to the work or thought of Walker Percy. This statement is not to exclude the introduction of outside subjects and perspectives as they may seem relevant to Percy discussion. Rather, it is simply to underscore that Percy?s thought or its relationship to a topic should be the base of all list commentary, including discussion of current events. If any member of the community does not agree with this intent or focus, they are cordially invited to unsubscribe. Henry Mills Percy-L Manager -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gypsyjimmy1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 13 13:03:09 2005 From: gypsyjimmy1 at yahoo.com (Jim Wesson) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Message to the Percy-L Community In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050913170310.19088.qmail@web50108.mail.yahoo.com> well done. i spoke with Percy many times over the phone (several times after a few too many!) and he was the epitome of graciousness and politeness.a true gentleman. jim --- "Henry P. Mills" wrote: > Dear Percy-L, > > I submit the below notice a second time for those > who may have missed it > during its first posting yesterday. Thank you to > the members of the > community who have written to me expressing concern > about the recent > digressions of the list away from any association > with Percy-related topics > as well as the frequently demeaning ways in which > they were presented. From > my impressions of reading the work of Percy and what > I know of the man, > civility and respect were values that ultimately > extended both from his > person and literary corpus. Such are the values of > this community no matter > how suitable or timely a given topic may be. > > Henry Mills > > > --------------- > Moratorium > > As Percy-L manager, I submit this email to the > community announcing a > moratorium on all further hurricane commentary or > political commentary that > is not discussed relative to the work or thought of > Walker Percy. This > statement is not to exclude the introduction of > outside subjects and > perspectives as they may seem relevant to Percy > discussion. Rather, it is > simply to underscore that Percy?s thought or its > relationship to a topic > should be the base of all list commentary, including > discussion of current > events. If any member of the community does not > agree with this intent or > focus, they are cordially invited to unsubscribe. > > Henry Mills > Percy-L Manager > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Tue Sep 13 23:28:03 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:28:03 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] "What's so great about this Percy guy, anyway?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Wed Sep 14 21:24:29 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:24:29 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] american experience Message-ID: <1126747469.4328cd4d66cee@webmail.iu.edu> I don't know if anyone saw this week's American Experience, entitled "Fatal Flood" on PBS, but it is really good (and timely). They give a good profile on Leroy and Will Percy. -David From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Wed Sep 14 21:36:56 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:36:56 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] american experience In-Reply-To: <1126747469.4328cd4d66cee@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at scn.org Sat Sep 17 12:54:47 2005 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:54:47 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Reading SK's Stages on Life's Way References: Message-ID: <003001c5bba8$83765f80$6500a8c0@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> Message to the Percy-L CommunityDear Percy-L friends: Over at Korrektiv (http://korrektiv.blogspot.com) we are slowly muddling our way through a non-scholarly reading of Kierkegaard's Stages on Life's Way -- with occasional sidelong glances towards Percy. Please come on over and join in the discussion. Best regards, Jonathan Potter Spokane, WA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Sat Sep 17 13:53:28 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:53:28 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? In-Reply-To: <003001c5bba8$83765f80$6500a8c0@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050917175328.ZOLB15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Potter Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:55 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] Reading SK's Stages on Life's Way Dear Percy-L friends: Over at Korrektiv (http://korrektiv.blogspot.com) we are slowly muddling our way through a non-scholarly reading of Kierkegaard's Stages on Life's Way -- with occasional sidelong glances towards Percy. Please come on over and join in the discussion. Best regards, Jonathan Potter Spokane, WA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhul at gwm.sc.edu Mon Sep 19 08:55:37 2005 From: rhul at gwm.sc.edu (Lawrence Rhu) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:55:37 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? Message-ID: Hello to all, I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Potter Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:55 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] Reading SK's Stages on Life's Way Dear Percy-L friends: Over at Korrektiv (http://korrektiv.blogspot.com) we are slowly muddling our way through a non-scholarly reading of Kierkegaard's Stages on Life's Way -- with occasional sidelong glances towards Percy. Please come on over and join in the discussion. Best regards, Jonathan Potter Spokane, WA From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Sep 19 10:55:16 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:55:16 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050919145505.FQTT14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot more smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably learn a great deal. What do you think Mr. Modrator? Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject line, a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the operative phrases here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the novels were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously take longer than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their pagination between different editions, but it did make for an easier discussion if most were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross reference to the quotation under discussion. If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the book under discussion into a master document. The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game as long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, definitions, historical material, etc. etc. For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? Hello to all, I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From sldye at bluegrass.org Mon Sep 19 11:04:10 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:04:10 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A0BA@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot more smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably learn a great deal. What do you think Mr. Modrator? Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject line, a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the operative phrases here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the novels were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously take longer than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their pagination between different editions, but it did make for an easier discussion if most were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross reference to the quotation under discussion. If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the book under discussion into a master document. The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game as long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, definitions, historical material, etc. etc. For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? Hello to all, I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From RGray at montreat.edu Mon Sep 19 12:11:00 2005 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:11:00 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a book-at-a-time discussion. Rich Gray -----Original Message----- From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot more smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably learn a great deal. What do you think Mr. Modrator? Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject line, a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the operative phrases here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the novels were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously take longer than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their pagination between different editions, but it did make for an easier discussion if most were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross reference to the quotation under discussion. If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the book under discussion into a master document. The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game as long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, definitions, historical material, etc. etc. For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? Hello to all, I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From padraig at well.com Mon Sep 19 13:28:05 2005 From: padraig at well.com (Patrick Lynch) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:28:05 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <806BCC50-96E3-4E2A-A4C4-81849C31C877@well.com> I am all for LITR! Let's us read. Patrick On Sep 19, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Gray, Rich wrote: > After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's > suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a > book-at-a-time discussion. > > Rich Gray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is > the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject > matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything > Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I > first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the > Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the > pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would > not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my > life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New > Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of > "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that > "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l- > bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM > To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot > more > smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably > learn a > great deal. > > What do you think Mr. Modrator? > > Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard > subject line, > a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the > operative phrases > here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the > novels > were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously > take longer > than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their > pagination > between different editions, but it did make for an easier > discussion if most > were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross > reference to > the quotation under discussion. > > If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about > the book > under discussion into a master document. > > The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair > game as > long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, > definitions, historical material, etc. etc. > > For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse > to come > down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of > himself to > rescue you." > W Percy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? > > Hello to all, > > I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a > reasonable > pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non- > fiction, that > strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. > > Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference > papers > about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC > (Columbia) in > February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the > Attractions of > Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly > relevant. > Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the > two More > novels and other relevant writings by Percy? > > Larry > > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature > University of > South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > > >>>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> >>>> > I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the > Percy List. > I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group > read" of > all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I > remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a > kind of a > standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so > that > email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who > wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that > thread. > > I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would > "force" me to > go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from > all the > able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. > > Just a thought. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > _____ > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > From rhul at gwm.sc.edu Mon Sep 19 14:59:54 2005 From: rhul at gwm.sc.edu (Lawrence Rhu) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:59:54 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: Count me in. I'd love to reread LITR (hopefully, as a starter in a progress through other Percy books), hear what people think about it, and share my thoughts with them when time allows and they seem worth an airing. Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> padraig at well.com 09/19/05 1:28 PM >>> I am all for LITR! Let's us read. Patrick On Sep 19, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Gray, Rich wrote: > After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's > suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a > book-at-a-time discussion. > > Rich Gray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is > the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject > matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything > Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I > first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the > Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the > pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would > not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my > life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New > Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of > "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that > "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l- > bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM > To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot > more > smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably > learn a > great deal. > > What do you think Mr. Modrator? > > Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard > subject line, > a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the > operative phrases > here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the > novels > were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously > take longer > than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their > pagination > between different editions, but it did make for an easier > discussion if most > were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross > reference to > the quotation under discussion. > > If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about > the book > under discussion into a master document. > > The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair > game as > long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, > definitions, historical material, etc. etc. > > For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse > to come > down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of > himself to > rescue you." > W Percy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? > > Hello to all, > > I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a > reasonable > pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non- > fiction, that > strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. > > Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference > papers > about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC > (Columbia) in > February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the > Attractions of > Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly > relevant. > Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the > two More > novels and other relevant writings by Percy? > > Larry > > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature > University of > South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > > >>>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> >>>> > I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the > Percy List. > I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group > read" of > all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I > remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a > kind of a > standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so > that > email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who > wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that > thread. > > I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would > "force" me to > go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from > all the > able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. > > Just a thought. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > _____ > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at http:// > lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From ttbrader at mindspring.com Mon Sep 19 17:21:52 2005 From: ttbrader at mindspring.com (Teresa) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:21:52 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A0BA@batman.Bluegrass.Board> References: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A0BA@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <432F2BF0.4010707@mindspring.com> I'm in! Teresa Dye, Steve wrote: >Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! > From gregt at dwilliams.net Mon Sep 19 17:33:53 2005 From: gregt at dwilliams.net (Greg Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:33:53 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <432F2BF0.4010707@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I think that LITR is perhaps more timely than most of Percy's fiction. No other writer deals so incisively with what has become familiar to us all since 1971 - the "Red"- knot-head and "Blue"- leftpapa. That the center is not holding has been much more evident the past several years than it was in 1971 (or 1981, or 1991 for that matter). Dye, Steve wrote: >Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! > -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From gypsyjimmy1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 19 17:35:32 2005 From: gypsyjimmy1 at yahoo.com (Jim Wesson) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050919213532.3506.qmail@web50108.mail.yahoo.com> it's a great idea. jim --- Lawrence Rhu wrote: > Count me in. I'd love to reread LITR (hopefully, as > a starter in a progress through other Percy books), > hear what people think about it, and share my > thoughts with them when time allows and they seem > worth an airing. > > Larry > > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative > Literature > University of South Carolina > Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > > >>> padraig at well.com 09/19/05 1:28 PM >>> > I am all for LITR! Let's us read. > Patrick > > On Sep 19, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Gray, Rich wrote: > > > After confessing to lurking, I want to second > Steve and Tommy's > > suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine > beginning to a > > book-at-a-time discussion. > > > > Rich Gray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > > > Having been a member of this list for several > years now, this is > > the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly > beats recent subject > > matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have > read everything > > Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The > Moviegoer", which I > > first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon > "Love in the > > Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and > read it by the > > pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal > Street. It would > > not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy > has changed my > > life. The first thing I thought of as I watched > the events in New > > Orleans transpire that first few days was that it > was right out of > > "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that > recently I had felt that > > "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l- > > bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy > Armstrong > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM > > To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical > Discussion' > > Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > > > I would very much like to do this--especially > since there are a lot > > more > > smarter people on this list than myself, and would > very probably > > learn a > > great deal. > > > > What do you think Mr. Modrator? > > > > Come up with some very simple ground rules such as > a standard > > subject line, > > a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is > one of the > > operative phrases > > here, and the list could give their suggestions. > With POB all the > > novels > > were about the same length, but with Percy, some > would obviously > > take longer > > than others. I am not sure about the novels of > Percy and their > > pagination > > between different editions, but it did make for an > easier > > discussion if most > > were using the same edition or at least if there > was a cross > > reference to > > the quotation under discussion. > > > > If it really got good, one could then compile all > the posts about > > the book > > under discussion into a master document. > > > > The way it worked with POB was that pretty much > anything was fair > > game as > > long as it came from the novel that was being > read. Links to maps, > > definitions, historical material, etc. etc. > > > > For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in > the Ruins. > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > PO Box 484 > > Lillington, NC 27546 > > http://www.brickengraver.com > > > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and > like a cat refuse > > to come > > down, then someone who loves you has to make as > big a fool of > > himself to > > rescue you." > > W Percy > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM > > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been > done? > > > > Hello to all, > > > > I think is would very interesting to work through > the novels at a > > reasonable > > pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As > for the non- > > fiction, that > > strikes me as harder to organize for such a > discussion group. > > > > Also, for any of you out there who are looking to > write conference > > papers > > about Percy, there is an annual comp lit > conference at USC > > (Columbia) in > > February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of > Evil and the > > Attractions of > > Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom > More particlarly > > relevant. > > Would any of you be interested in putting together > a panel on the > > two More > > novels and other relevant writings by Percy? > > > > Larry > > > > Lawrence F. Rhu > > Associate Professor of English and Comparative > Literature > > University of > > South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 > > Tel: 803 777 0144 > > Fax: 803 777 9064 > > Email: rhul at sc.edu > > > > > >>>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> > >>>> > > I was just wondering if anything like that had > been done on the > > Percy List. > > I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and > they did a "group > > read" of > > all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 > each two months if I > > remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this > list. We used a > > kind of a > > standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master > and Commander" so > > that > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From wpercy2 at ibiblio.org Mon Sep 19 20:33:44 2005 From: wpercy2 at ibiblio.org (Henry P. Mills) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:33:44 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Slow Reading List In-Reply-To: <20050919145505.FQTT14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: Tommy et al, Using Percy-L as a forum for a slow reading list of one of Percy's novels is certainly appropriate and germane to the interests of the community. Those not able to read along can still benefit from the discussion. >From past experience I know that such discussions generally work best when one or more persons works to keep the discussion moving forward anytime there is an extended lull, for instance, by introducing another topic. That person can be appointed, the role can be passed between members, or the group can promote and maintain its own well-being. All discussion will of course be automatically archived. My only suggestion would be that those participating make certain that LITR appears in the title of each message, and perhaps the chapter being discussed. That will make discussion much easier to identify and follow. As with Percy-L, the discussion should follow and adhere to the values of the list as earlier related, namely civil discourse of the kind you would expect of readers of Percy. Henry Mills > From: Tommy Armstrong > Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:55:16 -0400 > To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'" > > Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot more > smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably learn a > great deal. > > What do you think Mr. Modrator? > > Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject line, > a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the operative phrases > here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the novels > were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously take longer > than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their pagination > between different editions, but it did make for an easier discussion if most > were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross reference to > the quotation under discussion. > > If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the book > under discussion into a master document. > > The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game as > long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, > definitions, historical material, etc. etc. > > For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come > down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to > rescue you." > W Percy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? > > Hello to all, > > I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable > pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that > strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. > > Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers > about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in > February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of > Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. > Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More > novels and other relevant writings by Percy? > > Larry > > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of > South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > >>>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> > I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. > I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of > all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I > remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a > standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that > email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who > wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that > thread. > > I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to > go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the > able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. > > Just a thought. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > _____ > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From mfrentz_2 at comcast.net Mon Sep 19 22:53:18 2005 From: mfrentz_2 at comcast.net (mfrentz_2 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [percy-l] WSJ.com - 'Love in the Ruins' Recalls Destruction in Gulf Coast Message-ID: <21608300.1127184798185.JavaMail.tomcat@localhost> *Please note, the sender's email address has not been verified. >From today's on-line WSJ (not sure if the link will work given it's being sent to the list, but FYI anyway). Best wishes to all, Mike ******************** If you are having trouble with any of the links in this message, or if the URL's are not appearing as links, please follow the instructions at the bottom of this email. Title: WSJ.com - 'Love in the Ruins' Recalls Destruction in Gulf Coast This article will be available to non-subscribers of the Online Journal for up to seven days after it is e-mailed. Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to access the sent link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=898945509&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to SAVE THIS link: http://www.savethis.clickability.com/st/saveThisPopupApp?clickMap=saveFromET&partnerID=150&etMailToID=898945509&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to forward this link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=forward&etMailToID=898945509&partnerID=150&pt=Y ******************** Email pages from any Web site you visit - add the EMAIL THIS button to your browser, copy and paste the following into your Web browser: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=browserButtons&pt=Y" ********************* Instructions: ----------------------------------------- If your e-mail program doesn't recognize Web addresses: 1. With your mouse, highlight the Web Address above. Be sure to highlight the entire Web address, even if it spans more than one line in your email. 2. Select Copy from the Edit menu at the top of your screen. 3. Launch your Web browser. 4. Paste the address into your Web browser by selecting Paste from the Edit menu. 5. Click Go or press Enter or Return on your keyboard. ******************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Sep 19 23:00:58 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:00:58 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <20050919145505.FQTT14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Sep 19 23:19:52 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:19:52 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] In light of LITR Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blostopher at nyc.rr.com Tue Sep 20 03:01:50 2005 From: blostopher at nyc.rr.com (Blostopher) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 03:01:50 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been lurking as well, but a discussion of Love in the Ruins just might bring me out of the shadows . . . I agree - a timely book. Christopher Blosser On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Gray, Rich wrote: > After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's > suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a > book-at-a-time discussion. > > Rich Gray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the > best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject > matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy > has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first > read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a > bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was > then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an > exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first > thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire > that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". > The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had > become somewhat "pass?"! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Sep 20 09:11:01 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:11:01 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Slow Reading List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050920131043.ZEEQ14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Kewl--So I think to sum up we have decided that LITR is a go for a group read. How about a chapter a week starting October 1st. Everyone have the first chapter read by Oct 1 and discussion begins. Posts then start (or before)with a subject line "LITR Chapter 1" (no quotes) and the thread begins. If you are using Outlook or other email clients, one can then filter everything with LITR in its subject into a separate folder and then arrange subject alphabetically. So for example when "Chapter 2" comes around, it would sort below "Chapter 1". One would then use these subject lines for comments on specific comments about that chapter. And then of course there would be posts not specicfically associated with a certain chapter--Just start that subject with LITR. Now does anyone have the formula for the Gin Fizzes that he was drinking in the opening chapter? I need to stock up on any ingredients before I start. Tommy Armstrong Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. Robert Heinlein -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Henry P. Mills Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:34 PM To: percy-l Subject: [percy-l] LITR Slow Reading List Tommy et al, Using Percy-L as a forum for a slow reading list of one of Percy's novels is certainly appropriate and germane to the interests of the community. Those not able to read along can still benefit from the discussion. >From past experience I know that such discussions generally work best >when one or more persons works to keep the discussion moving forward anytime there is an extended lull, for instance, by introducing another topic. That person can be appointed, the role can be passed between members, or the group can promote and maintain its own well-being. All discussion will of course be automatically archived. My only suggestion would be that those participating make certain that LITR appears in the title of each message, and perhaps the chapter being discussed. That will make discussion much easier to identify and follow. As with Percy-L, the discussion should follow and adhere to the values of the list as earlier related, namely civil discourse of the kind you would expect of readers of Percy. Henry Mills > From: Tommy Armstrong > Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:55:16 -0400 > To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'" > > Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? > > I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot > more smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably > learn a great deal. > > What do you think Mr. Modrator? > > Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject > line, a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the > operative phrases here, and the list could give their suggestions. > With POB all the novels were about the same length, but with Percy, > some would obviously take longer than others. I am not sure about the > novels of Percy and their pagination between different editions, but > it did make for an easier discussion if most were using the same > edition or at least if there was a cross reference to the quotation under discussion. > > If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the > book under discussion into a master document. > > The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game > as long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, > definitions, historical material, etc. etc. > > For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to > come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of > himself to rescue you." > W Percy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? > > Hello to all, > > I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a > reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the > non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. > > Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference > papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in > February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of > Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. > Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two > More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? > > Larry > > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University > of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > >>>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> > I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. > I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group > read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two > months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. > We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master > and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just > that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not > simply filtered out that thread. > > I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" > me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance > from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. > > Just a thought. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > _____ > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From sldye at bluegrass.org Tue Sep 20 10:01:35 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:01:35 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A33A@batman.Bluegrass.Board> I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at scn.org Tue Sep 20 11:21:46 2005 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:46 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? References: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A33A@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <00e901c5bdf7$052e4f60$839cbb92@EWU027842> This is great. I would like to follow along on the list but also post highlights on Korrektiv from time to time if y'all don't mind. Thanks, Jonathan Potter Spokane, WA http://korrektiv.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dye, Steve To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Sep 20 13:21:41 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:21:41 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A33A@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <20050920172122.TCEU15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Ain't the internet great. This is possibly the formula used, however more scholarly reasearch is in order to make sure that some other variant might have been imbibed. I will take this on as a "special project" as authenticity is always an operative imperative. I am currently exploring what exactly what "bar sugar" is. http://www.gumbopages.com/food/beverages/ramos-gin-fizz.html The Original Ramos Gin Fizz Invented in the 1880s by Henry C. Ramos, in his bar at Meyer's Restaurant, this is one of New Orleans' most famous drinks. The secret of its flavor and texture is orange flower water and egg whites. When Huey P. Long was governor of Louisiana he brought with him to New York's Roosevelt Hotel the bartender from the New Orleans Roosevelt just so he could have New Orleans gin fizzes whenever he was in New York. Yeah, sure, every man a king ... Orange flower water can be difficult to find, but is available in better liquor stores or Middle-Eastern markets. You can also obtain it from Martin's Wine Cellar in New Orleans, (800) 298-4274, 3827 Baronne Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. * 2 ounces gin * 3 drops orange flower water * 1 egg whites * 1 teaspoon bar sugar * 1 ounce lemon juice * 1/2 ounce lime juice * 1 ounce cream * Soda water Shake very vigorously for at least one minute. Strain into a tall thin glass, or a very large old fashioned glass, and top with some soda water. Stir. _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lierl at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 20 14:23:42 2005 From: lierl at sbcglobal.net (Joseph D. Lierl) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:23:42 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? References: <20050920172122.TCEU15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <003101c5be10$6e904530$4f072a0a@RESNOTE413> Here's a link to a recipe that has a direct Percy reference.... http://mgv.mim.edu.my/Articles/00270/96020416.Htm For those that just want the recipe from the link: 2 Walker Percy's Famous Ramos Gin Fizz The Ramos Fizz is made with one ounce of gin, one-half ounce of cream, one-and-a-half ounces of sour mix, two dashes of orange juice and one egg white. You shake this up with ice, strain it into a tall glass and fill it up with club soda. I've been lurking here for a long while, and love the idea of the group read! ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Ain't the internet great. This is possibly the formula used, however more scholarly reasearch is in order to make sure that some other variant might have been imbibed. I will take this on as a "special project" as authenticity is always an operative imperative. I am currently exploring what exactly what "bar sugar" is. http://www.gumbopages.com/food/beverages/ramos-gin-fizz.html The Original Ramos Gin Fizz Invented in the 1880s by Henry C. Ramos, in his bar at Meyer's Restaurant, this is one of New Orleans' most famous drinks. The secret of its flavor and texture is orange flower water and egg whites. When Huey P. Long was governor of Louisiana he brought with him to New York's Roosevelt Hotel the bartender from the New Orleans Roosevelt just so he could have New Orleans gin fizzes whenever he was in New York. Yeah, sure, every man a king ... Orange flower water can be difficult to find, but is available in better liquor stores or Middle-Eastern markets. You can also obtain it from Martin's Wine Cellar in New Orleans, (800) 298-4274, 3827 Baronne Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. a.. 2 ounces gin b.. 3 drops orange flower water c.. 1 egg whites d.. 1 teaspoon bar sugar e.. 1 ounce lemon juice f.. 1/2 ounce lime juice g.. 1 ounce cream h.. Soda water Shake very vigorously for at least one minute. Strain into a tall thin glass, or a very large old fashioned glass, and top with some soda water. Stir. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Sep 20 14:39:52 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:39:52 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <003101c5be10$6e904530$4f072a0a@RESNOTE413> Message-ID: <20050920183933.UUUX15278.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Now thats the kind of good info a learned group can come up with. Thanks--OJ is easier to get than Orange Flower Water. Tommy Armstrong Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. Robert Heinlein _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Joseph D. Lierl Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:24 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Here's a link to a recipe that has a direct Percy reference.... http://mgv.mim.edu.my/Articles/00270/96020416.Htm For those that just want the recipe from the link: 2 Walker Percy's Famous Ramos Gin Fizz The Ramos Fizz is made with one ounce of gin, one-half ounce of cream, one-and-a-half ounces of sour mix, two dashes of orange juice and one egg white. You shake this up with ice, strain it into a tall glass and fill it up with club soda. I've been lurking here for a long while, and love the idea of the group read! ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Armstrong To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Ain't the internet great. This is possibly the formula used, however more scholarly reasearch is in order to make sure that some other variant might have been imbibed. I will take this on as a "special project" as authenticity is always an operative imperative. I am currently exploring what exactly what "bar sugar" is. http://www.gumbopages.com/food/beverages/ramos-gin-fizz.html The Original Ramos Gin Fizz Invented in the 1880s by Henry C. Ramos, in his bar at Meyer's Restaurant, this is one of New Orleans' most famous drinks. The secret of its flavor and texture is orange flower water and egg whites. When Huey P. Long was governor of Louisiana he brought with him to New York's Roosevelt Hotel the bartender from the New Orleans Roosevelt just so he could have New Orleans gin fizzes whenever he was in New York. Yeah, sure, every man a king ... Orange flower water can be difficult to find, but is available in better liquor stores or Middle-Eastern markets. You can also obtain it from Martin's Wine Cellar in New Orleans, (800) 298-4274, 3827 Baronne Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. * 2 ounces gin * 3 drops orange flower water * 1 egg whites * 1 teaspoon bar sugar * 1 ounce lemon juice * 1/2 ounce lime juice * 1 ounce cream * Soda water Shake very vigorously for at least one minute. Strain into a tall thin glass, or a very large old fashioned glass, and top with some soda water. Stir. _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Tue Sep 20 15:52:19 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:52:19 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0128A53A@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Look out for the hives, though.... -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:22 PM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? Ain't the internet great. This is possibly the formula used, however more scholarly reasearch is in order to make sure that some other variant might have been imbibed. I will take this on as a "special project" as authenticity is always an operative imperative. I am currently exploring what exactly what "bar sugar" is. http://www.gumbopages.com/food/beverages/ramos-gin-fizz.html The Original Ramos Gin Fizz Invented in the 1880s by Henry C. Ramos, in his bar at Meyer's Restaurant, this is one of New Orleans' most famous drinks. The secret of its flavor and texture is orange flower water and egg whites. When Huey P. Long was governor of Louisiana he brought with him to New York's Roosevelt Hotel the bartender from the New Orleans Roosevelt just so he could have New Orleans gin fizzes whenever he was in New York. Yeah, sure, every man a king ... Orange flower water can be difficult to find, but is available in better liquor stores or Middle-Eastern markets. You can also obtain it from Martin's Wine Cellar in New Orleans, (800) 298-4274, 3827 Baronne Street, New Orleans, Louisiana. * 2 ounces gin * 3 drops orange flower water * 1 egg whites * 1 teaspoon bar sugar * 1 ounce lemon juice * 1/2 ounce lime juice * 1 ounce cream * Soda water Shake very vigorously for at least one minute. Strain into a tall thin glass, or a very large old fashioned glass, and top with some soda water. Stir. _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] [BULK] Re: Group Read Suggestions?? I really like the energy on this list now for Love in the Ruins! Let's do it! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:01 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [BULK] Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Importance: Low Count me in for LITR--I agree that 5 years ago it seemed dated, but now it's fresher than ever. Rhonda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nikkibar at aol.com Sat Sep 24 13:16:53 2005 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:16:53 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness Message-ID: <9a.2e1ba620.3066e405@aol.com> For the last few weeks I have not been following the list traffic, having my hands full with Katrina problems. I dunno who Mr. Pauley and Mr. Mitchell are, but their mean spirited criticisms of the New Orleans City administration should not go uncontradicted. The present city administration is not by any means omnipotent or omniscient, but they are neither corrupt nor incompetent. For years we ( and by we I mean me personally, the Louisiana Government Administrations since 1927 and innumerable New Orleans City Administrations) have been trying to get the Federal Government and the Corps of Engineers to upgrade the levee and flood-wall protection system and for years they have been pooh poohing the pleas and saying that we were simply trying to porkbarrel our way to undeserved wealth. This comment is not by way of blame shifting of the kind that is presently going on over the acute emergency issues where the feds are blaming Blanco and Ngin and Blanco and Nagin are blaming the Feds. No, here I am discussing the CHRONIC problem that is at the root of the destruction of the city in the flood protection area -- and that is what is started all the other woes downhill with the gangs and all the other acute woes. The fact is that the Feds (by whom I include Congress and the Executive branch) and the Corps have sole and exclusive control over these functions and they guard their prerogatives very jealously. As a matter of fact the City administration did rather a superb job of managing the evacuation, and would have come up aces had not that flood wall failed. So please be a bit more circumspect before attributing incompetence and corruption to folks you know nothing about. Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kfw at ntelos.net Sat Sep 24 13:33:53 2005 From: kfw at ntelos.net (Ken Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:33:53 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness References: <9a.2e1ba620.3066e405@aol.com> Message-ID: <005101c5c12e$2ab57a80$33370cd8@servant> Nikki, are the levees federal property then? I can imagine some of your exasperation and your pain right now, but I don't understand why after decades of asking for federal help, the city and state didn't take matters into their own hands. And do you know why the city didn't mobilize those school buses? Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Nikkibar at aol.com To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness For the last few weeks I have not been following the list traffic, having my hands full with Katrina problems. I dunno who Mr. Pauley and Mr. Mitchell are, but their mean spirited criticisms of the New Orleans City administration should not go uncontradicted. The present city administration is not by any means omnipotent or omniscient, but they are neither corrupt nor incompetent. For years we ( and by we I mean me personally, the Louisiana Government Administrations since 1927 and innumerable New Orleans City Administrations) have been trying to get the Federal Government and the Corps of Engineers to upgrade the levee and flood-wall protection system and for years they have been pooh poohing the pleas and saying that we were simply trying to porkbarrel our way to undeserved wealth. This comment is not by way of blame shifting of the kind that is presently going on over the acute emergency issues where the feds are blaming Blanco and Ngin and Blanco and Nagin are blaming the Feds. No, here I am discussing the CHRONIC problem that is at the root of the destruction of the city in the flood protection area -- and that is what is started all the other woes downhill with the gangs and all the other acute woes. The fact is that the Feds (by whom I include Congress and the Executive branch) and the Corps have sole and exclusive control over these functions and they guard their prerogatives very jealously. As a matter of fact the City administration did rather a superb job of managing the evacuation, and would have come up aces had not that flood wall failed. So please be a bit more circumspect before attributing incompetence and corruption to folks you know nothing about. Nikki Barranger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nikkibar at aol.com Sat Sep 24 14:19:10 2005 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:19:10 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness Message-ID: <12f.664542ca.3066f29e@aol.com> I have heard two bits of info about the school bus fiasco. the First is that a number of them got drowned along with a number of military high water vehicles that were overtaken by quickly rising waters. The second is that the rumors of the sniping by gangs had spread to the ranks of the bus drivers and that they were afraid to risk their lives by going in. I cannot say if either or both are true as the information network to the northshore fifty miles north of the ciry has been blocked out almost completely because of our power losses and road blockages. I have an extensive journal that I've kept on the tense days following the storm which I will share with anyone interested (if you are prepared to drop a hat) but which I do not post en masse in defference to Henry's admonitions. Regarding the question of why us Louisiana folks haven't told the Feds to go to hell by taking matters into their own hands, the matter is somewhat more complex. The redesign of a levee system to protect the New Orleans saucer is an extrememly complicated business and has been managed by the Corps rather well, all things considered. It is also monstrously expensive and would consume our entire Gross State Product for a decade. The Corps have spent years figuring out what should be done, and have always stood ready to do it. We have been begging for the money and it has been repeatedly denied by the Congress and the Executive Branch. OUR Congressmen (yea even the Republican ones like Vitter and Breaux) have been all for it, but we littlechaps do not vote in the elections which return assholes like Hastert and Frist and DeLay to office. And, contrary to the views contemporaneously expressed by the media regarding our recent civil unrest (so I understand for I wasn't able to see them myself), we tend to be a law abiding group -- prone neither to secession nor the assisination of assholes. Even attempts to take a tractor up to the top of the levee with a load of dirt would be met by swift arrest. Hell, They won't even let you ride a bike up there. So just how would you suggest that we proceed? Perhaps now Congress will get the message that if they want to have a Port of New Orleans, they had better have a levee system that bloody well works! And while they're at it, perhaps they'll get the message that it would be a good idea to sign on to the Kyoto Treaty to minimize (insofar as possible -- which may admittedly not be much) the global warming that is contributing to the sudden rash of serial hurricanes. Does that respond to the questions adequately? If so, you have my permission to forward this on to your Congressperson and Senators. If not, sharpen the inquiry and I'll try to do better. Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowry.charles at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 14:25:17 2005 From: lowry.charles at gmail.com (Charles Lowry) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:25:17 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness In-Reply-To: <12f.664542ca.3066f29e@aol.com> References: <12f.664542ca.3066f29e@aol.com> Message-ID: And we were doing so well with starting up the LITR group... Isn't this the sort of thing, from either side, that we were going to try to avoid? That is not to say that these are unimportant questions or unworthy of examination, but wasn't the consensus "not here"? Chuck Lowry Brooklyn, New York -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kfw at ntelos.net Sat Sep 24 15:12:27 2005 From: kfw at ntelos.net (Ken Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:12:27 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness References: <12f.664542ca.3066f29e@aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01c5c13b$ee917af0$33370cd8@servant> > Does that respond to the questions adequately? Yes, and thank you, and though I'm sure it sounds like a feeble thing, my heart goes out to you all. Like many of us, I'm praying that some good will come from this tragedy. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wriddick at usa.net Sat Sep 24 17:30:05 2005 From: wriddick at usa.net (Wade Riddick) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:30:05 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness In-Reply-To: <9a.2e1ba620.3066e405@aol.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Sun Sep 25 13:45:00 2005 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:45:00 EDT Subject: [percy-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <15a.59a5e685.30683c1c@aol.com> Chuck Lowry Brooklyn, New York wrote: And we were doing so well with starting up the LITR group... Isn't this the sort of thing, from either side, that we were going to try to avoid? That is not to say that these are unimportant questions or unworthy of examination, but wasn't the consensus "not here"? I've been watching this discussion closely since it began, and I don't recall a "consensus" of any sort emerging. I do recall the list master attempting to avoid further discussion of NOLA, but both left and right group members dissented from that effort. I think Nikki deserves to be heard, and if someone doesn't like it, don't read it. Meanwhile, what on earth does the LTR group on LITR have to do with the NOLA discussion thread? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Sun Sep 25 14:11:49 2005 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:11:49 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness Message-ID: On the same question, regarding buses and NOLA: _http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml_ (http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhul at gwm.sc.edu Sun Sep 25 18:18:02 2005 From: rhul at gwm.sc.edu (Lawrence Rhu) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:18:02 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] /LITR Message-ID: Dear All, I have been rereading LITR with great pleasure. On the matter of the center not holding, I am reminded how Binx used to enjoy going to the library and reading political journals. The animosity expressed toward opponents by pundits on different sides struck him as a rare sign of life in an otherwise haunted, if not simply dead, populace, zombies going through the motions of life. I think this has a lot to do with the passion and dismay that we have often been exposed to in exchanges on the list of late. ( I am a newcomer so I have no idea what it has been like before I started listening in in August.) I also think these mixed feelings raise very interesting issues about the limits of different kinds of discourse. Emerson's struggle with the Aboliltionists, whom he joined with some reluctance (and regular qualms) before the War between the States, is an example of this sort of dilemma that has recently mattered to me. If you believe that philosophy can bring peace, polemics, of course, narrow the possibilities; but without candor, we would have a kind of desolation of thought and of feeling that it would be a lie to call peace. How are other people doing with the novel? I always loved the first two novels the most, especially the second. Percy's initial success seemed to emboldem him to greater feats of candor and a willingness to risk his own vulnerability (even in a third person narrative). LITR previously struck me as an angry book (one of my friends calls it more viscerally engaged, a good point that usefully turns my feeling back on me) symptomatic of a country losing its capacity for public trust and civil conversation. It still does strike me that way, but it makes me laugh so often and strikes me now as using passionate conviction in a most generous and compelling way . Should I also sadly add "prophetic"? It's good to reread Yeats and know the recipe for Ramos gin fizzes. Reading Peter Kramer, as I have been doing for the first time, also makes LITR more interesting and me more conversible. I thank Cal Elliott for this and recommend his chapter, "Three Ways of Feeling Homesick," in Better Than Well as a good companion piece for reading LITR from perspectives that interest me such as bioethics and ideas of good and evil. Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> MorrisJD at aol.com 09/25/05 1:45 PM >>> Chuck Lowry Brooklyn, New York wrote: And we were doing so well with starting up the LITR group... Isn't this the sort of thing, from either side, that we were going to try to avoid? That is not to say that these are unimportant questions or unworthy of examination, but wasn't the consensus "not here"? I've been watching this discussion closely since it began, and I don't recall a "consensus" of any sort emerging. I do recall the list master attempting to avoid further discussion of NOLA, but both left and right group members dissented from that effort. I think Nikki deserves to be heard, and if someone doesn't like it, don't read it. Meanwhile, what on earth does the LTR group on LITR have to do with the NOLA discussion thread? From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sun Sep 25 19:32:07 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:32:07 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] /LITR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Sun Sep 25 19:45:04 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:45:04 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] /LITR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1127691904.4337368020de6@webmail.iu.edu> I strongly agree with Larry's recommendation of Elliott's book as a companion to LITR, especially the chapter, "Three Ways of Feeling Homesick." While it is hard for me to pick a favorite Percy book, if I had to choose I would probably pick LITR; perhaps because it was the first Percy book I read. As an undergraduate, I took a senior-level course on Religion and American Culture. On the first day of class, as a way of an intro, the prof, Tony Sherrill (who later was on my grad committee when I wrote my thesis on Percy), read the beginning of LITR, the roller coaster metaphor for America. I was hooked. I went out and bought the book and kept reading until I had finished everything Percy had published (at that time). (BTW, before his untimely death, Dr. Sherrill wrote a really good book entitled, Road-Book America: Contemporary Culture and the New Picaresque (University of Illinois Press, 2000). In the book he spends several pages on Percy, especially in the chapter, "Picaro's Recovery of the Sovereing Self." (A shameless plug for a good book and a good, but deceased friend.) I taught LITR several years ago in a freshman lit class. It went over pretty well, but several of the students commented on its "60-ish" feel. I think they were right, but somehow it seems very timely in 2005 (supported by some of the political discussions on this list). I'm looking forward to our discussion. -David Quoting Lawrence Rhu : > Dear All, > > I have been rereading LITR with great pleasure. On the matter of the center > not holding, I am reminded how Binx used to enjoy going to the library and > reading political journals. The animosity expressed toward opponents by > pundits on different sides struck him as a rare sign of life in an otherwise > haunted, if not simply dead, populace, zombies going through the motions of > life. > > I think this has a lot to do with the passion and dismay that we have often > been exposed to in exchanges on the list of late. ( I am a newcomer so I > have no idea what it has been like before I started listening in in August.) > > I also think these mixed feelings raise very interesting issues about the > limits of different kinds of discourse. Emerson's struggle with the > Aboliltionists, whom he joined with some reluctance (and regular qualms) > before the War between the States, is an example of this sort of dilemma that > has recently mattered to me. If you believe that philosophy can bring peace, > polemics, of course, narrow the possibilities; but without candor, we would > have a kind of desolation of thought and of feeling that it would be a lie to > call peace. > > How are other people doing with the novel? I always loved the first two > novels the most, especially the second. Percy's initial success seemed to > emboldem him to greater feats of candor and a willingness to risk his own > vulnerability (even in a third person narrative). LITR previously struck me > as an angry book (one of my friends calls it more viscerally engaged, a good > point that usefully turns my feeling back on me) symptomatic of a country > losing its capacity for public trust and civil conversation. It still does > strike me that way, but it makes me laugh so often and strikes me now as > using passionate conviction in a most generous and compelling way . Should I > also sadly add "prophetic"? > > It's good to reread Yeats and know the recipe for Ramos gin fizzes. Reading > Peter Kramer, as I have been doing for the first time, also makes LITR more > interesting and me more conversible. I thank Cal Elliott for this and > recommend his chapter, "Three Ways of Feeling Homesick," in Better Than Well > as a good companion piece for reading LITR from perspectives that interest me > such as bioethics and ideas of good and evil. > > Larry > Lawrence F. Rhu > Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature > University of South Carolina > Columbia, SC 29208 > Tel: 803 777 0144 > Fax: 803 777 9064 > Email: rhul at sc.edu > > >>> MorrisJD at aol.com 09/25/05 1:45 PM >>> > > Chuck Lowry > Brooklyn, New York > > wrote: > > > And we were doing so well with starting up the LITR group... > > Isn't this the sort of thing, from either side, that we were going to try to > > avoid? That is not to say that these are unimportant questions or unworthy > > of examination, but wasn't the consensus "not here"? > > > > I've been watching this discussion closely since it began, and I don't > recall a "consensus" of any sort emerging. I do recall the list master > attempting > to avoid further discussion of NOLA, but both left and right group members > dissented from that effort. I think Nikki deserves to be heard, and if > someone > doesn't like it, don't read it. > > Meanwhile, what on earth does the LTR group on LITR have to do with the NOLA > > discussion thread? > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > From sldye at bluegrass.org Mon Sep 26 11:22:46 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:22:46 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0133FCB5@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Excerpt from the September 12 issue of the New Yorker ("The Talk of the Town" section) - "It isn't just that New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country; the city has repeatedly been the scene of armed conflict, most notably during Reconstruction and the governorship of Huey Long. Walker Percy's 1971 novel "Love in the Ruins", set on the Gulf Coast outside New Orleans, imagined a scene not too far from (though not nearly as bad as) what we've seen for the past week, with armed bands roaming the countryside, columns of smoke rising on the horizon, and people hiding out in half-destroyed buildings. Thirty years earlier, in a memoir called "Lanterns on the Levee", Percy's cousin William Alexander Percy proudly conjured up the echt-Bourbon picture of himself facing down unruly homeless African-Americans in the wake of the 1927 flood"... -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Armstrong Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:55 AM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I would very much like to do this--especially since there are a lot more smarter people on this list than myself, and would very probably learn a great deal. What do you think Mr. Modrator? Come up with some very simple ground rules such as a standard subject line, a start time and schedule--"reasonable time" is one of the operative phrases here, and the list could give their suggestions. With POB all the novels were about the same length, but with Percy, some would obviously take longer than others. I am not sure about the novels of Percy and their pagination between different editions, but it did make for an easier discussion if most were using the same edition or at least if there was a cross reference to the quotation under discussion. If it really got good, one could then compile all the posts about the book under discussion into a master document. The way it worked with POB was that pretty much anything was fair game as long as it came from the novel that was being read. Links to maps, definitions, historical material, etc. etc. For example the recipe of a "Gin Fizz" in Love in the Ruins. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhu Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:56 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read --has it been done? Hello to all, I think is would very interesting to work through the novels at a reasonable pace as a sort of on-line/list reading group. As for the non-fiction, that strikes me as harder to organize for such a discussion group. Also, for any of you out there who are looking to write conference papers about Percy, there is an annual comp lit conference at USC (Columbia) in February. Its topic this year is "Cultures of Evil and the Attractions of Villainy," which may make the experience of Tom More particlarly relevant. Would any of you be interested in putting together a panel on the two More novels and other relevant writings by Percy? Larry Lawrence F. Rhu Associate Professor of English and Comparative Literature University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Tel: 803 777 0144 Fax: 803 777 9064 Email: rhul at sc.edu >>> tfa at brickengraver.com 09/17/05 1:53 PM >>> I was just wondering if anything like that had been done on the Percy List. I was once a member of a Patrick O'Brian list and they did a "group read" of all of the Canon of 22 books that POB wrote--1 each two months if I remember. Would this be an appropriate use of this list. We used a kind of a standard subject line, such as "GroupRead Master and Commander" so that email clients could easily easily sort on just that thread. People who wished to participate did, those that did not simply filtered out that thread. I for one would love some sort of a stuctured way that would "force" me to go back through the Percy Canon--especially with some guidance from all the able bodied seamen that inhabit this ship. Just a thought. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From ttbrader at mindspring.com Mon Sep 26 12:52:12 2005 From: ttbrader at mindspring.com (Teresa) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:52:12 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0133FCB5@batman.Bluegrass.Board> References: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0133FCB5@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <4338273C.50103@mindspring.com> I'd like the New Yorker to read this article: http://tinyurl.com/73zwq I knew most of what was reported in this article already from various things I was reading, but I have corroboration in one article now -- most of the violence that was reported happening in New Orleans by the national media after Hurricane Katrina *never* happened. (The local media on our battery operated TV never reported things like that. They were busy getting the real stuff out that people who were still around needed to know.) This makes me so mad, because most of the nat'l sources have not made any retractions. They were just reporting what they heard on the street and not following up on it. As if the squalid conditions and the indignities that people had to endure -- that really did exist -- were not bad enough to report on! Because of the rumors and false reporting, I'm sure some of the rescuers were deterred from what they needed to be doing. Teresa from Kenner -- 2 suburbs to the west of the city of N.O. Dye, Steve wrote: >(though not nearly as bad as) what we've seen for the past week, with >armed bands roaming the countryside, columns of smoke rising on the >horizon, and people hiding out in half-destroyed buildings. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Sep 26 14:08:16 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:08:16 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? In-Reply-To: <4338273C.50103@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20050926180753.KIUE5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> I find it very heartening that what was reported was false. It was really difficult for me to fathom that that level of violence was being allowed to happen within the dome and converntion center--or that such a large number of people were actually involved. But your comment: " most of the violence that was reported happening in New Orleans by the national media after Hurricane Katrina never happened." ..."They were just reporting what they heard on the street and not following up on it." I think is a bit too accusatory of the national media--after all their sources for much of this seem to be the Chief of Police and the Mayor and other ranking officials. In most circumstances, one would think them to be pretty reliable sources, especially when it paints a bad picture instead of a good one about their citizens, which would normally be the case. The way I read the article, the promulgation of rumor by the two highest local officials caused much suffering to those evacuees and prevented help from getting to them faster because of security reasons. If I interpreted it wrongly, let me know off list. Thanks Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Teresa Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 12:52 PM To: Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org :Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I'd like the New Yorker to read this article: http://tinyurl.com/73zwq I knew most of what was reported in this article already from various things I was reading, but I have corroboration in one article now -- most of the violence that was reported happening in New Orleans by the national media after Hurricane Katrina never happened. (The local media on our battery operated TV never reported things like that. They were busy getting the real stuff out that people who were still around needed to know.) This makes me so mad, because most of the nat'l sources have not made any retractions. They were just reporting what they heard on the street and not following up on it. As if the squalid conditions and the indignities that people had to endure -- that really did exist -- were not bad enough to report on! Because of the rumors and false reporting, I'm sure some of the rescuers were deterred from what they needed to be doing. Teresa from Kenner -- 2 suburbs to the west of the city of N.O. Dye, Steve wrote: (though not nearly as bad as) what we've seen for the past week, with armed bands roaming the countryside, columns of smoke rising on the horizon, and people hiding out in half-destroyed buildings. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttbrader at mindspring.com Mon Sep 26 14:54:40 2005 From: ttbrader at mindspring.com (Teresa) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:54:40 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] off topic but then back to LitR In-Reply-To: <20050926180753.KIUE5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> References: <20050926180753.KIUE5784.imta02a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <433843F0.4040709@mindspring.com> I do believe what you say is true to an extent. I am *very* disappointed in the mayor and police chief for this. Perhaps the stress was getting to them at the time or this was their way of getting help -- I don't know. I really can't and don't want to excuse it. But there were other things that were reported that seemed to come from the 'people on the streets' and not from any officials -- things that were disseminated before the police chief talked to Oprah etc. I heard these reports on CNN or MSNBC (when our local station gave its feed over to the national news outlets late at night) from their own reporters (who didn't give sources) and that was before the city officials had spoken on these things. With the statement you quoted from me, I was referring to other things I'd read and learned earlier than what I read in this latest article -- which, of course, you could not have known. I have no articles to quote to back this up, so I understand if that might be taken with a grain of salt. I know I chose to answer you on list, but this is all I will have to say on the matter. I figure the more people who know the truth (as far as the truth can be discerned, that is) about the situation itself, the better -- which is the only reason I wanted to dispute the comparison of this situation to LitR by the New Yorker. If anything, the situation reminds me of Jose Saramago's novel /Blindness/. Teresa Tommy Armstrong wrote: > I find it very heartening that what was reported was false. It was > really difficult for me to fathom that that level of violence was > being allowed to happen within the dome and converntion center--or > that such a large number of people were actually involved. > > But your comment: > " most of the violence that was reported happening in New Orleans by > the national media after Hurricane Katrina *never* happened." ..."They > were just reporting what they heard on the street and not following up > on it." > > I think is a bit too accusatory of the national media--after all their > sources for much of this seem to be the Chief of Police and the Mayor > and other ranking officials. In most circumstances, one would think > them to be pretty reliable sources, especially when it paints a bad > picture instead of a good one about their citizens, which would > normally be the case. The way I read the article, the promulgation of > rumor by the two highest local officials caused much suffering to > those evacuees and prevented help from getting to them faster because > of security reasons. If I interpreted it wrongly, let me know off list. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Mon Sep 26 19:06:58 2005 From: Robert_Pauley at oxy.com (Robert_Pauley at oxy.com) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:06:58 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness Message-ID: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A043@olawexc8.naoxy.com> I've no intention to divert the forum from its reinvigorated focus on Percy's works but as my name was cited in a recent thread, I feel obliged to make a short response. As to who I am: nobody, really (not that it matters)- merely an observer of civic life, and an admirer of Walker Percy. As to New Orleans, there is an ample body of evidence to support assertions of the city's storied corruption and incompetence. I include a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather well-regarded journal. I have said nothing new or scandalous. I do not dislike New Orleans, am very sorry for its misfortune, and wish it the best. Mostly I wish, as I do for every city as the case may be, that the brigands and varmints that run things so badly and dishonorably get tossed out and good, caring people get put in. Best, R. Pauley http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Wade Riddick Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:30 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell's smug, self righteousness -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From ttbrader at mindspring.com Tue Sep 27 01:35:37 2005 From: ttbrader at mindspring.com (Teresa) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:35:37 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell In-Reply-To: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A043@olawexc8.naoxy.com> References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67441A043@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <4338DA29.8050200@mindspring.com> from the link posted below: > thousands of looters systematically destroy what Katrina left unscathed > Thousands of opportunistic vultures have looted stores all over the city I've read of 'dozens' -- not thousands. > The New Orleans /Times-Picayune/ has posted photos on its website of > other police officers joining in the widespread theft from unattended > stores. The 2 photos I saw (one I still found on the website) were of police confiscating looted items. The caption did not read that the officers were looting the stores. Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: >a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather >well-regarded journal. > >http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wpercy2 at ibiblio.org Tue Sep 27 09:15:34 2005 From: wpercy2 at ibiblio.org (Henry P. Mills) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:15:34 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell In-Reply-To: <4338DA29.8050200@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Teresa, Posts to Percy-L should in some way be related to Walker Percy or his writings. Posts directed to particular individuals in turn should be considered if they are best suited for off-list discussion at anytime to the degree that they do not advance collective discussion. Thanks, Henry Mills Percy-L Manager From: Teresa Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:35:37 -0500 To: "Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org:Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell from the link posted below: > thousands of looters systematically destroy what Katrina left unscathed > Thousands of opportunistic vultures have looted stores all over the city I've read of 'dozens' -- not thousands. > The New Orleans Times-Picayune has posted photos on its website of other > police officers joining in the widespread theft from unattended stores. The 2 photos I saw (one I still found on the website) were of police confiscating looted items. The caption did not read that the officers were looting the stores. Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: > > a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather > well-regarded journal. > > http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Tue Sep 27 09:50:56 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:50:56 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0133FF2C@batman.Bluegrass.Board> Yes! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Henry P. Mills Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:16 AM To: percy-l Subject: Re: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Teresa, Posts to Percy-L should in some way be related to Walker Percy or his writings. Posts directed to particular individuals in turn should be considered if they are best suited for off-list discussion at anytime to the degree that they do not advance collective discussion. Thanks, Henry Mills Percy-L Manager _____ From: Teresa Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:35:37 -0500 To: "Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org:Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell from the link posted below: thousands of looters systematically destroy what Katrina left unscathed Thousands of opportunistic vultures have looted stores all over the city I've read of 'dozens' -- not thousands. The New Orleans Times-Picayune has posted photos on its website of other police officers joining in the widespread theft from unattended stores. The 2 photos I saw (one I still found on the website) were of police confiscating looted items. The caption did not read that the officers were looting the stores. Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather well-regarded journal. http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juliorivas at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 12:10:33 2005 From: juliorivas at gmail.com (J Rivas-Pita) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:10:33 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell In-Reply-To: References: <4338DA29.8050200@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Henry, Please unsubscribe me. I had something different in mind when I joined this list -certainly not that it would be crowded with Nazi-type characters or KKK supporters. Sincerely, Julio Rivas-Pita On 9/27/05, Henry P. Mills wrote: > > Teresa, > > Posts to Percy-L should in some way be related to Walker Percy or his > writings. Posts directed to particular individuals in turn should be > considered if they are best suited for off-list discussion at anytime to the > degree that they do not advance collective discussion. > > Thanks, > > Henry Mills > Percy-L Manager > > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *Teresa > *Reply-To: *"Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" < > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > *Date: *Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:35:37 -0500 > *To: *"Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org:Literary and Philosophical Discussion" < > percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > *Subject: *[percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell > > from the link posted below: > > thousands of looters systematically destroy what Katrina left unscathed > Thousands of opportunistic vultures have looted stores all over the city > > I've read of 'dozens' -- not thousands. > > The New Orleans *Times-Picayune* has posted photos on its website of other > police officers joining in the widespread theft from unattended stores. > > The 2 photos I saw (one I still found on the website) were of police > confiscating looted items. The caption did not read that the officers were > looting the stores. > > Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: > > > a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather > well-regarded journal. > > http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html > > > ------------------------------ > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Tue Sep 27 12:22:23 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:22:23 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD0133FFE2@batman.Bluegrass.Board> The system seems to be working..... -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:11 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Henry, Please unsubscribe me. I had something different in mind when I joined this list -certainly not that it would be crowded with Nazi-type characters or KKK supporters. Sincerely, Julio Rivas-Pita On 9/27/05, Henry P. Mills wrote: Teresa, Posts to Percy-L should in some way be related to Walker Percy or his writings. Posts directed to particular individuals in turn should be considered if they are best suited for off-list discussion at anytime to the degree that they do not advance collective discussion. Thanks, Henry Mills Percy-L Manager _____ From: Teresa Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" < percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:35:37 -0500 To: "Percy-L at lists.ibiblio.org :Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell from the link posted below: thousands of looters systematically destroy what Katrina left unscathed Thousands of opportunistic vultures have looted stores all over the city I've read of 'dozens' -- not thousands. The New Orleans Times-Picayune has posted photos on its website of other police officers joining in the widespread theft from unattended stores. The 2 photos I saw (one I still found on the website) were of police confiscating looted items. The caption did not read that the officers were looting the stores. Robert_Pauley at oxy.com wrote: a link here to particularly well-written summary piece from a rather well-regarded journal. http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_08_31_05ng.html _____ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) S? feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Tue Sep 27 13:34:38 2005 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:34:38 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Message-ID: <12d.65ab5958.306adcae@aol.com> Henry, what she wrote about is just what Percy wrote about in LITR. Your upraiding her doesn't make much sense in the circumstances. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Tue Sep 27 13:41:35 2005 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:41:35 EDT Subject: [percy-l] Pauley and Mitchell Message-ID: <8.71208826.306ade4f@aol.com> _sldye at bluegrass.org_ (mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org) wrote: The system seems to be working?.. Yes, and remarks like that add so very much, relating directly as they do to the work of Walker Percy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Tue Sep 27 14:05:04 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:05:04 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD01340069@batman.Bluegrass.Board> This list really seems to have taken a mean spirited turn, in my humble opinion. A "malaise" has overtaken it, it seems....anybody got a lapsometer? -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Blostopher Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I've been lurking as well, but a discussion of Love in the Ruins just might bring me out of the shadows . . . I agree - a timely book. Christopher Blosser On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Gray, Rich wrote: After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a book-at-a-time discussion. Rich Gray -----Original Message----- From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BMclaughlin at nazarene.org Tue Sep 27 14:15:39 2005 From: BMclaughlin at nazarene.org (Bryon McLaughlin) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:15:39 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Message-ID: Please remove me from this list. Thanks. Bryon McLaughlin Communications/WEB Manager USA/Canada Mission/Evangelism Department Church of the Nazarene bmclaughlin at nazarene.org (800) 306-9948 Have you visited? www.usamission.org www.digitalnazarene.org (Coming soon!) On the Incarnation: If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you. --Walker Percy ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:05 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? This list really seems to have taken a mean spirited turn, in my humble opinion. A "malaise" has overtaken it, it seems....anybody got a lapsometer? -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Blostopher Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:02 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? I've been lurking as well, but a discussion of Love in the Ruins just might bring me out of the shadows . . . I agree - a timely book. Christopher Blosser On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Gray, Rich wrote: After confessing to lurking, I want to second Steve and Tommy's suggestions. Love in the Ruins would make a fine beginning to a book-at-a-time discussion. Rich Gray -----Original Message----- From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:04 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Group Read Suggestions?? Having been a member of this list for several years now, this is the best suggestion I have heard. It certainly beats recent subject matter. I am one of the "lay" members but have read everything Percy has written (am currently re-reading "The Moviegoer", which I first read in 1973). I just happened to come upon "Love in the Ruins" at a bookstore in New Orleans in 1988 and read it by the pool at what was then the Clarion Hotel on Canal Street. It would not be an exaggeration to say that reading Percy has changed my life. The first thing I thought of as I watched the events in New Orleans transpire that first few days was that it was right out of "Love in the Ruins". The odd thing is that recently I had felt that "love in the Ruins" had become somewhat "pass?"! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Tue Sep 27 21:21:53 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:21:53 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot Message-ID: <1127870513.4339f031698ff@webmail.iu.edu> First, I want to applaud Henry, who has taken some undeserved shots, for trying to bring the list back to the literary/philosophical discussion for which it is intended. When those who disagree are labeled as Nazis and Klansmen, it's time to step in and bring some integrity (and maturity) back to the discussion. Maybe the tree needed to be pruned. Regardless, I appreciate his input (why can't members correspond with each other instead of the list? I carry on off-list conversations with several members of the list). But, since some want to discuss the hurricane, I thought I'd throw out this experience. In my fiction class, I have a "displaced" student from New Orleans, who, with her family, lost everything (she had two changes of clothes as of last week). She came to Indianapolis a few weeks ago, several weeks into the semester. Anyway, today I began my lecture on Percy and, in particular, Lancelot. It wasn't until I was into my spiel on Percy's "hurricane syndrome" that I realized I had just (possibly) stepped into a mess. I wasn't sure if I could convey the anticipation, the rush, the break from everydayness, without seeming pretty shallow (in her eyes anyway). She is pretty shy, so I didn't want to "push" her to respond, but I was interested in hearing her take on it. But last week, when she came to my office to get "caught up," we talked briefly about her situation. She said that they couldn't return, and so she didn't know the extent of damage to her home; she did say, however, that the area in which she lived was hit hard and not much was left standing (based on news reports). But she started to get choked up, so I backed off. She is way behind in class work, and I don't think she has been able to buy the books (I'm meeting with her tomorrow to work something out). Still, I wonder how she will see the whole hurricane effect and the hurricane in Lancelot. Any suggestions? -David From ttbrader at mindspring.com Wed Sep 28 00:54:04 2005 From: ttbrader at mindspring.com (Teresa) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:54:04 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot In-Reply-To: <1127870513.4339f031698ff@webmail.iu.edu> References: <1127870513.4339f031698ff@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <433A21EC.8010402@mindspring.com> I don't know how many hurricane scares your new student has been through in her lifetime, and I can only speak to this question from a personal viewpoint. That quote from /Lancelot /about enjoying hurricanes ... I understand it because of past experiences -- from when I was a child up until the one before Katrina, I guess. (I am 43 years old.) If your student has experienced past hurricane threats (before Katrina), she may understand the feeling Percy talks of. Katrina was different, though, and that may be all she can think of right now. When we first heard that Friday night/Saturday morning that a hurricane was headed our way, I admit that I felt a pleasurable anticipation of being snug inside with my husband while the bad weather rattled around outside. But as the news changed and New Orleans was put under mandatory evacuation (first time ever) that Sunday morning, the anticipation was pleasurable no longer. I felt dread. The dread deepened as the night lengthened. I have never felt that way with any other hurricane. I'd imagine that for your student, as with most everyone else around here -- whether they have not been back home or whether they have been able to come back, as I have -- her emotions are raw and right there, ready to spill out. I have not had one 'good' cry, but then my eyes well up instantly and I hurt at just about everything I see and hear nowadays. It may be the same for her. Not really a suggestion, I know ... Teresa dabeck at iupui.edu wrote: >Still, I wonder how she will see the whole hurricane effect and the hurricane in >Lancelot. > Any suggestions? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Wed Sep 28 02:12:24 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:12:24 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] off topic but then back to LitR In-Reply-To: <433843F0.4040709@mindspring.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Wed Sep 28 02:21:15 2005 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:21:15 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot In-Reply-To: <1127870513.4339f031698ff@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Sep 28 06:05:19 2005 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:05:19 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050928100518.QTOZ14345.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@compaqupstairs> Rhonda said: "NOT being fatally injured, NOT losing people you love, NOT having your home crash down around you" That really is the important thing. Hopefully, ten years from now the student will be able to look back to 2005--"the year of the hurricane" --and remember some good that came out of it. How she was scared, depressed, heartbroken, but still alive and glad she is. Hopefully her life might even be better "after the hurricane" than before--that is the job of America for the evacuees--to try and somehow make that a reality. And its usually those little things that happen that one looks back to --the little acts of kindness--that changes everything. One of course never knows what they will be, the thing that causes a a change in direction towards something , if not better than before, at least something not worse. These depend on individual acts by individuals--the government cannot do it --its an indvidual human to individual human thing--and that I think that is much of the philosophy of Percy. The government is incapable of "love" as is even the Red Cross or any other organization. Individuals human beings are the only entities that are capable of that. Its the job of America to help the victims "To become aware of the possibility of a " new "search". Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot The thing about feeling good in bad situations seems predicated upon NOT being fatally injured, NOT losing people you love, NOT having your home crash down around you--in other words, it's that supercharged feeling that, in part, is the result of being thankful for being alive in a world newly charged with meaning because of the imminence of danger--but in Percy, Lancelot excepted, it's a danger that doesn't cause permanent damage--remember Binx in the MG with Sharon when they have the fender bender and all the malaise is swept away? Or Will and some girl in the hurricane (was it a hurricane?) when they take the child into the diner and feed him chicken soup and, in the end, everyone is okay? Sort of like the end of War of the Worlds . . . --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats _____ From: dabeck at iupui.edu Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:21:53 -0500 > >First, I want to applaud Henry, who has taken some undeserved shots, for >trying to bring the list back to the literary/philosophical discussion for >which it is intended. When those who disagree are labeled as Nazis and >Klansmen, it's time to step in and bring some integrity (and maturity) back to >the discussion. Maybe the tree needed to be pruned. Regardless, I appreciate >his input (why can't members correspond with each other instead of the list? I >carry on off-list conversations with several members of the list). > But, since some want to discuss the hurricane, I thought I'd throw out this >experience. In my fiction class, I have a "displaced" student from New >Orleans, who, with her family, lost everything (she had two changes of clothes >as of last week). She came to Indianapolis a few weeks ago, several weeks into >the semester. > Anyway, today I began my lecture on Percy and, in particular, Lancelot. It >wasn't until I was into my spiel on Percy's "hurricane syndrome" that I >realized I had just (possibly) stepped into a mess. I wasn't sure if I could >convey the anticipation, the rush, the break from everydayness, without >seeming pretty shallow (in her eyes anyway). She is pretty shy, so I didn't >want to "push" her to respond, but I was interested in hearing her take on it. >But last week, when she came to my office to get "caught up," we talked >briefly about her situation. She said that they couldn't return, and so she >didn't know the extent of damage to her home; she did say, however, that the >area in which she lived was hit hard and not much was left standing (based on >news reports). But she started to get choked up, so I backed off. > She is way behind in class work, and I don't think she has been able to buy >the books (I'm meeting with her tomorrow to work something out). Still, I >wonder how she will see the whole hurricane effect and the hurricane in >Lancelot. > Any suggestions? >-David > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Wed Sep 28 10:29:05 2005 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:29:05 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot Message-ID: <60790682A484FF4080B3EA134C564CBD01340232@batman.Bluegrass.Board> I have no suggestions, but am fascinated by this message and the dilemma and how it relates to Percy. You certainly have my moral support, however. This has also made me think more about Lancelot. It is amazing how Percy remains "relevant"! -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of dabeck at iupui.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:22 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot First, I want to applaud Henry, who has taken some undeserved shots, for trying to bring the list back to the literary/philosophical discussion for which it is intended. When those who disagree are labeled as Nazis and Klansmen, it's time to step in and bring some integrity (and maturity) back to the discussion. Maybe the tree needed to be pruned. Regardless, I appreciate his input (why can't members correspond with each other instead of the list? I carry on off-list conversations with several members of the list). But, since some want to discuss the hurricane, I thought I'd throw out this experience. In my fiction class, I have a "displaced" student from New Orleans, who, with her family, lost everything (she had two changes of clothes as of last week). She came to Indianapolis a few weeks ago, several weeks into the semester. Anyway, today I began my lecture on Percy and, in particular, Lancelot. It wasn't until I was into my spiel on Percy's "hurricane syndrome" that I realized I had just (possibly) stepped into a mess. I wasn't sure if I could convey the anticipation, the rush, the break from everydayness, without seeming pretty shallow (in her eyes anyway). She is pretty shy, so I didn't want to "push" her to respond, but I was interested in hearing her take on it. But last week, when she came to my office to get "caught up," we talked briefly about her situation. She said that they couldn't return, and so she didn't know the extent of damage to her home; she did say, however, that the area in which she lived was hit hard and not much was left standing (based on news reports). But she started to get choked up, so I backed off. She is way behind in class work, and I don't think she has been able to buy the books (I'm meeting with her tomorrow to work something out). Still, I wonder how she will see the whole hurricane effect and the hurricane in Lancelot. Any suggestions? -David -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From dabeck at iupui.edu Wed Sep 28 13:30:26 2005 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (dabeck at iupui.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:30:26 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] hurricane in Lancelot In-Reply-To: <433A21EC.8010402@mindspring.com> References: <1127870513.4339f031698ff@webmail.iu.edu> <433A21EC.8010402@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <1127928625.433ad33204625@webmail.iu.edu> Thanks, Teresa for your first-hand insights. I appreciate it. They give me a better "feel" for the situation. -David Quoting Teresa : > I don't know how many hurricane scares your new student has been through > in her lifetime, and I can only speak to this question from a personal > viewpoint. > > That quote from /Lancelot /about enjoying hurricanes ... I understand it > because of past experiences -- from when I was a child up until the one > before Katrina, I guess. (I am 43 years old.) If your student has > experienced past hurricane threats (before Katrina), she may understand > the feeling Percy talks of. Katrina was different, though, and that may > be all she can think of right now. > > When we first heard that Friday night/Saturday morning that a hurricane > was headed our way, I admit that I felt a pleasurable anticipation of > being snug inside with my husband while the bad weather rattled around > outside. But as the news changed and New Orleans was put under > mandatory evacuation (first time ever) that Sunday morning, the > anticipation was pleasurable no longer. I felt dread. The dread > deepened as the night lengthened. I have never felt that way with any > other hurricane. > > I'd imagine that for your student, as with most everyone else around > here -- whether they have not been back home or whether they have been > able to come back, as I have -- her emotions are raw and right there, > ready to spill out. I have not had one 'good' cry, but then my eyes > well up instantly and I hurt at just about everything I see and hear > nowadays. It may be the same for her. > > Not really a suggestion, I know ... > > Teresa > > dabeck at iupui.edu wrote: > > >Still, I wonder how she will see the whole hurricane effect and the > hurricane in > >Lancelot. > > Any suggestions? > > > From Tpmonaghan at aol.com Thu Sep 29 11:05:08 2005 From: Tpmonaghan at aol.com (Tpmonaghan at aol.com) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:05:08 EDT Subject: [percy-l] remembering the Rotary in LITR Message-ID: <155.59f3eeae.306d5ca4@aol.com> _Rotarians bare all for good cause_ (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1493534/posts) _Concord Transcript ^_ (http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/local/states/california/counties/contra_costa_county/c ities_neighborhoods/concord/12770759.htm) | 9/29/5 | Kellie Applen Wearing nothing but his 12-string guitar, 65-year-old Paul King smiled wide for the camera, knowing full well his photograph would be seen by clients, friends -- even complete strangers. "It's no big thing," said King, one of a dozen members of Rotary Club of Concord who wear their birthday suits for an upcoming calendar. "We're having a ball ... an absolute ball, doing this. There are going to be some people who might be slightly offended, but the majority of people think it's a great idea," he said. It's an idea King and fellow Rotarian Memory Woodard, a Clayton resident, latched onto after reading an article in People magazine about a Rotary Club in New York whose members took it all off for a fund-raising calendar. The payoff was big and brought the group some celebrity, King said. "I said, 'Hey guys, this is where we need to go with this,'" said Woodard, one of two female Rotarians to pose in the calendar. "We are trying to put ourselves on the map and I think this will do it." Many of their fellow Rotarians loved the idea, so much so that there were more members who volunteered to go to the almost-"Full Monty," than there were months in the calendar. "We've got a bunch of hunks in our Rotary," said King, noting that those who could not make it into the 2006 calendar have been promised spots in the next one. King, who works in sales and plays guitar in his band the Folk and Oldies, is featured in the month of September. Woodard, an employee benefits broker is featured in April, covered only with strategically placed flowers and a shovel bearing the Rotary Club emblem. While she did not initially plan to model, Woodard said she changed her mind to show people that the organization is not just a men's club. She used the same rationale to persuade fellow Rotarians to include women in the calendar. Woodard said she has no regrets about posing and her husband is all for it, too. "(He) is so excited about it. He is telling everybody ... he loves the shock value," Woodard said, adding that she has yet to tell her two grown sons. Other Rotarians making the calendar include club president Michael Barrington; Rick Ernst, Bruce Hall, Bill Bobetsky, Lisa Gallup, Richard Kops, Alex Ozuna, Rick Vossekuil, Chris Moulis, Tony Akins, and Jeff Warrenburg, according to King. The club expects to sell the calendar for $20, beginning in November. All of the proceeds will go to charity, though the group hasn't decided which ones yet, King said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: