From RGray at montreat.edu Sun Apr 2 15:36:22 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 15:36:22 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? Message-ID: Karey, Thanks for the suggestion. You are benefiting from living in a substantial city, rather than Asheville, NC. Jonathan Potter found it with Random House. BIP (Books in Print) had it, which I don't subscribe to. BIP has the 1998 printing. I hope that is still in stock. I needed a regular publisher to supply a college bookstore for students to purchase for a course. Rich Gray -----Original Message----- From: Karey Perkins [mailto:karey at kareyperkins.com] Sent: Fri 3/31/2006 9:07 AM To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' Cc: Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? The Borders bookstore near my home (in Atlanta) regularly carries ALL of Percy's books in stock, even the non-fiction, and especially keeps The Moviegoer stocked. Karey -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:04 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? I definitely know it is in print - I just bought a new copy last year to replace the worn out one I had had since 1975! You can get it on Amazon.com. Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:28 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? I cannot find The Moviegoer in print. Can anyone find it? Rich Gray -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5622 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdp at scn.org Sun Apr 2 20:44:42 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:44:42 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12305a9c0604021744l7c82772csc33ce6fc8fd97154@mail.gmail.com> The day The Moviegoer goes out of print will be a dark day. I hope I don't live to see it. Jonathan On 4/2/06, Gray, Rich wrote: > > Karey, > > Thanks for the suggestion. You are benefiting from living in a > substantial city, rather than Asheville, NC. > > Jonathan Potter found it with Random House. BIP (Books in Print) had it, > which I don't subscribe to. BIP has the 1998 printing. I hope that is > still in stock. > > I needed a regular publisher to supply a college bookstore for students to > purchase for a course. > > Rich Gray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karey Perkins [mailto:karey at kareyperkins.com] > Sent: Fri 3/31/2006 9:07 AM > To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > Cc: > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > > > The Borders bookstore near my home (in Atlanta) regularly carries > ALL of > Percy's books in stock, even the non-fiction, and especially keeps > The > Moviegoer stocked. > > Karey > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:04 AM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > I definitely know it is in print - I just bought a new copy last > year to > replace the worn out one I had had since 1975! You can get it on > Amazon.com. > > Steven L. Dye, MA > Director > Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > Lexington, KY 40511 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:28 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > I cannot find The Moviegoer in print. Can anyone find it? > > Rich Gray > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Wed Apr 5 00:47:43 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:47:43 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? In-Reply-To: <12305a9c0604021744l7c82772csc33ce6fc8fd97154@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Let's hope none of us do! The 17-year-olds I teach loved it--many thought it was the best book they'd ever read. As long as it keeps speaking to a new generation, we just might be okay. --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Jonathan Potter" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:44:42 -0700 > >The day The Moviegoer goes out of print will be a dark day. I hope I don't >live to see it. > >Jonathan > > >On 4/2/06, Gray, Rich wrote: > > > > Karey, > > > > Thanks for the suggestion. You are benefiting from living in a > > substantial city, rather than Asheville, NC. > > > > Jonathan Potter found it with Random House. BIP (Books in Print) had >it, > > which I don't subscribe to. BIP has the 1998 printing. I hope that is > > still in stock. > > > > I needed a regular publisher to supply a college bookstore for students >to > > purchase for a course. > > > > Rich Gray > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Karey Perkins [mailto:karey at kareyperkins.com] > > Sent: Fri 3/31/2006 9:07 AM > > To: 'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion' > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > > > > > > > The Borders bookstore near my home (in Atlanta) regularly carries > > ALL of > > Percy's books in stock, even the non-fiction, and especially >keeps > > The > > Moviegoer stocked. > > > > Karey > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, >Steve > > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:04 AM > > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > > > I definitely know it is in print - I just bought a new copy last > > year to > > replace the worn out one I had had since 1975! You can get it on > > Amazon.com. > > > > Steven L. Dye, MA > > Director > > Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, >Rich > > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:28 AM > > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: [percy-l] Is The Moviegoer in print? > > > > I cannot find The Moviegoer in print. Can anyone find it? > > > > Rich Gray > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 09:42:31 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:42:31 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F660C3@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> For anyone who may be interested, there is an interesting article in last weekend's New York Times Sunday Magazine about "A Depression Switch?" - I immediately thought of Percy and Tom More. Percy would be amused by this latest "scientific" attempt to cure depression (malaise).... Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of MorrisJD at aol.com Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:25 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] LITR Is there any ongoing discussion? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Thu Apr 6 10:30:33 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:30:33 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: _____ From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is there any common thread? In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must be a purpose for these priests. As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy readers see any of these priests as realistic. Rich Gray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 10:34:59 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:34:59 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F660F0@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see the responses you get! Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR _____ From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is there any common thread? In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must be a purpose for these priests. As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy readers see any of these priests as realistic. Rich Gray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nikkibar at aol.com Thu Apr 6 12:09:44 2006 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:09:44 EDT Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <1a9.49f9b90e.31669748@aol.com> There is no priest in Moviegoer. The other memorable priest in the Percy canon is the Percival (Parsifal), the listening ear in Lancelot, to whom the story is being told by the narrative voice; I can think of no other priests in any pf the other novels.Father Smith's Confession is the key to whole meaning of Thanatos. It is unimportant whether he is true to life or not as he serves as raisoneur for the novel. One could do an interesting monograph on Fr. Smith as being one of a long line of such wounded raisoneurs from the tradition of Graham Greene. He is kissing cousins to the Benjamin/Lazarus figure in Walter Miller Jr's Canticle For Leibowitz (one of Walker's favorite books). Nikki Barranger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nikkibar at aol.com Thu Apr 6 12:11:40 2006 From: Nikkibar at aol.com (Nikkibar at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:11:40 EDT Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <31a.1ee3de8.316697bc@aol.com> can you supply us with a url to the article -- for those of us out here in the boonies? Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 12:30:31 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:30:31 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6613C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> nytimes.com/magazine title of the article from April 2, 2006..."A Depression Switch?" by David Dobbs Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nikkibar at aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:12 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR can you supply us with a url to the article -- for those of us out here in the boonies? Nikki -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttbrader at cox.net Thu Apr 6 13:00:39 2006 From: ttbrader at cox.net (Teresa) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:00:39 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6613C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> References: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6613C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <44354937.2040905@cox.net> I haven't read the whole article yet, but, boy, does that immediately bring LitR's lapsometer to mind. Percy was nothing if not prescient! Teresa Dye, Steve wrote: > nytimes.com/magazine title of the article from April 2, > 2006..."A Depression Switch?" by David Dobbs > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 13:21:53 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:21:53 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F66156@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> Yeah, especially when I read the part about "planting electrodes in a region near the center of the brain called Area 25. .....Dr. Helen Mayberg, a neurologist, had detected in depressed patients what she suspected was a crucial dysfunction in Area 25's activity. She hypothesized that the electrodes might MODULATE the area and ease the depression". I feel like sending a copy of Love in the Ruins to this Dr. Mayberg. Sound familiar, Doc? Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Teresa Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:01 PM To: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] LITR I haven't read the whole article yet, but, boy, does that immediately bring LitR's lapsometer to mind. Percy was nothing if not prescient! Teresa Dye, Steve wrote: nytimes.com/magazine title of the article from April 2, 2006..."A Depression Switch?" by David Dobbs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Thu Apr 6 13:23:07 2006 From: Robert_Pauley at oxy.com (Robert_Pauley at oxy.com) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67409D88E67@olawexc8.naoxy.com> A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come "into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms are hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. Basically, Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. Peace. ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see the responses you get! Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR ________________________________ From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is there any common thread? In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must be a purpose for these priests. As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy readers see any of these priests as realistic. Rich Gray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 13:29:53 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:29:53 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6615C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> Nice synopsis of the Second Coming - I also thought it was a great "love story" in its own way and would have been one of the two (Love in the Ruins the other) that could have been effectively transferred to the "big screen"...Harrison Ford/Jack Nicholson and Scarlett Johannsen???? Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert_Pauley at oxy.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:23 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come "into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms are hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. Basically, Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. Peace. _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see the responses you get! Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR _____ From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is there any common thread? In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must be a purpose for these priests. As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy readers see any of these priests as realistic. Rich Gray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Thu Apr 6 13:30:28 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:30:28 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6615E@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> The Percy list lives again!!! Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Teresa Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:01 PM To: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: [percy-l] LITR I haven't read the whole article yet, but, boy, does that immediately bring LitR's lapsometer to mind. Percy was nothing if not prescient! Teresa Dye, Steve wrote: nytimes.com/magazine title of the article from April 2, 2006..."A Depression Switch?" by David Dobbs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Thu Apr 6 13:46:02 2006 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:46:02 EDT Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <220.aab151b.3166adda@aol.com> A cineaste as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MorrisJD at aol.com Thu Apr 6 13:47:36 2006 From: MorrisJD at aol.com (MorrisJD at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:47:36 EDT Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <2aa.16d4a2e.3166ae38@aol.com> He's a genius, the asylum Toll. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Thu Apr 6 16:37:48 2006 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (Beck, David A) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:37:48 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <20060406163748.o5txjld06cg4s4wo@webmail.iu.edu> Fr. Smith is also in LITR. -David From jp at jlarsp.com Thu Apr 6 21:21:20 2006 From: jp at jlarsp.com (John Pearson) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:21:20 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6613C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> References: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F6613C@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> Message-ID: <54907cdaeb663ccf1361166aaeab0b51@jlarsp.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/magazine/02depression.html Not sure if anyone posted the actual URL, so here it is. And it's great to see the list spring to life! John Pearson Chicago, IL 60657 "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." Edward Abbey "News is what powerful people want to keep hidden. Everything else is just publicity." Bill Moyers On Apr 6, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Dye, Steve wrote: > > ? nytimes.com/magazine???? title of the article from April 2, 2006??A > Depression Switch?? by David Dobbs > ? > Steven L. Dye, MA > Director > Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > Lexington, KY 40511 > ? > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > Nikkibar at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:12 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > ? > can you supply us with a url to the article? -- for those of us out > here in the boonies? > > Nikki > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3324 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sldye at bluegrass.org Fri Apr 7 08:58:43 2006 From: sldye at bluegrass.org (Dye, Steve) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 08:58:43 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: <74C25147FD45F644AAB363F7A432E5F5F661F0@KingKong.Bluegrass.Board> I took the liberty of locating Dr. Mayberg at Emory and emailed her my thoughts about her research and the similarities with Percy, Tom More and Love in the Ruins. She was very nice about responding and said she was not at all familiar with any of it BUT she was ordering LITR. We'll see what happens with this. Fascinating to me! Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Pearson Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:21 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/magazine/02depression.html Not sure if anyone posted the actual URL, so here it is. And it's great to see the list spring to life! John Pearson Chicago, IL 60657 "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." Edward Abbey "News is what powerful people want to keep hidden. Everything else is just publicity." Bill Moyers On Apr 6, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Dye, Steve wrote: nytimes.com/magazine title of the article from April 2, 2006..."A Depression Switch?" by David Dobbs Steven L. Dye, MA Director Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. 1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 Lexington, KY 40511 -----Original Message----- From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Nikkibar at aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:12 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR can you supply us with a url to the article -- for those of us out here in the boonies? Nikki -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sun Apr 9 01:44:05 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:44:05 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67409D88E67@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and acts more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second was Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy face? Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but he's really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying attention to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the important questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican (as is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms are >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. Basically, >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > >Peace. > >________________________________ > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see >the responses you get! > >Steven L. Dye, MA >Director >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 >Lexington, KY 40511 > >-----Original Message----- >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >________________________________ > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is >there any common thread? > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must >be a purpose for these priests. > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > >Rich Gray >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jdp at scn.org Sun Apr 9 13:02:24 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: References: <7706697134D5C94781B111C8C298D67409D88E67@olawexc8.naoxy.com> Message-ID: <12305a9c0604091002n603ccca4rd8b441183db02ec@mail.gmail.com> I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing his arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was Anglican/Episcopalian. Jonathan Potter Spokane WA On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and acts > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second was > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy face? > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but he's > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying attention > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the important > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican (as > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >To: > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms are > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. Basically, > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > >Peace. > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see > >the responses you get! > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > >Director > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is > >there any common thread? > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > >Rich Gray > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sun Apr 9 17:40:38 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 14:40:38 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <12305a9c0604091002n603ccca4rd8b441183db02ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany desk with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." Both Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's rant: How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the same time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient! How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How pleasure-loving! How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than any other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame. Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous people on earth are so unhappy?" He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good one. It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from Last Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Jonathan Potter" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing >his >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was >Anglican/Episcopalian. > >Jonathan Potter >Spokane WA > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and >acts > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second >was > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy >face? > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but >he's > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying >attention > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the important > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican >(as > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > --Rhonda > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > >From: > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms >are > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. >Basically, > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see > > >the responses you get! > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > >Director > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is > > >there any common thread? > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > >-- > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jdp at scn.org Sun Apr 9 19:24:18 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:24:18 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: References: <12305a9c0604091002n603ccca4rd8b441183db02ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12305a9c0604091624t2a9b2579m2c485f5265511303@mail.gmail.com> You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole truth." To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48) I guess you could expand the original question about priests to consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. --Jonathan On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany desk > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." > Both > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's > rant: > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the > same > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient! > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How pleasure-loving! > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than > any > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame. > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and > more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good > one. > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from > Last > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing > >his > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > >Jonathan Potter > >Spokane WA > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and > >acts > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second > >was > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy > >face? > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but > >he's > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > >attention > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the > important > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican > >(as > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I > don't > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage > Will > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a > solidly > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an > effective > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms > >are > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey > flourishes > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. > >Basically, > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after > leaving > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > >Director > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There > must > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > >FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Sun Apr 9 19:56:23 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:56:23 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: Rhonda and Jonathan, I have been away for several days while you have been working on the question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful conversation. As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with Jack deferring to the institution's residents. Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological. Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. How does this sound? Rich -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Cc: Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole truth." To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48) I guess you could expand the original question about priests to consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. --Jonathan On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany desk with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." Both Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's rant: How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the same time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient! How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How pleasure-loving! How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than any other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame. Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous people on earth are so unhappy?" He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good one. It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from Last Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Jonathan Potter" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing >his >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was >Anglican/Episcopalian. > >Jonathan Potter >Spokane WA > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > wrote: > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and >acts > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second >was > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy >face? > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but >he's > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying >attention > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the important > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican >(as > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > --Rhonda > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > >From: > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > >To: > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I don't > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an effective > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms >are > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey flourishes > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. >Basically, > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see > > >the responses you get! > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > >Director > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is > > >there any common thread? > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > >-- > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- An archive of all list discussion is available at http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 15542 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dabeck at iupui.edu Sun Apr 9 20:32:21 2006 From: dabeck at iupui.edu (Beck, David A) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060409203221.yup1cqem804cowow@webmail.iu.edu> Rich, You wrote: > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John has definitely returned to his Catholic faith. What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a "dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But he didn't. In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on the surface). In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end, More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world." So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other doesn't have to be clergy. Does that make sense? -David Quoting "Gray, Rich" : > Rhonda and Jonathan, > > I have been away for several days while you have been working on the > question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful > conversation. > > As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more > insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. > > I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him > substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with > Jack deferring to the institution's residents. > > Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and > practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this > ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological. > > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > > How does this sound? > > Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] > Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Cc: > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee > ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > > I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two > collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the > interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell > whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong > track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may > lead him to the whole truth." > > To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, > latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological > revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It > involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest > [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the > younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48) > > I guess you could expand the original question about priests to > consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's > novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add > Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm > not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it > seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism -- > but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. > > --Jonathan > > > On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany desk > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." Both > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's rant: > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at > the same > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient! > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How pleasure-loving! > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more > than any > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame. > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and > more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a > good one. > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val > from Last > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing > >his > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > >Jonathan Potter > >Spokane WA > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > > wrote: > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and > >acts > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second > >was > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy > >face? > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but > >he's > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > >attention > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the > important > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican > >(as > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. > I don't > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an > effective > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms > >are > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey > flourishes > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. > >Basically, > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > >Director > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > >FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > From tfa at brickengraver.com Sun Apr 9 21:07:42 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:07:42 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002301c65c3b$2bbe8590$c801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Are we quite sure that Fr. Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopal priests? I need to get out my copy-- "its collection of Russian > ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes."--that sounds Roman to me- and my daughter just finished reading it and she said they were Romans. Percy thought Episcopal Priests a bit wishy-washy as I remember. Not so sure Percy would agree with "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats When talking about priests. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy > -----Original Message----- > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > RHONDA MCDONNELL > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:41 PM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what > it's worth, chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind > Jack Curl's mahogany desk with its collection of Russian > ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." Both Weatherbee and > Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but > I don't have the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter > 12, Fr. Weatherbee's rant: > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, > and at the same time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! > How restless! How impatient! > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How > pleasure-loving! > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we > have more than any other people, are more generous with what > we have, and yet are so selfish and unhappy? Why do we think > of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot believe my eyes at > what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame. > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is > why more and more people beat their children. Children > interfere with pleasure. Do you hate children? Why can't we > be grateful for our great blessings and thank God? . . . Why > is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer > (wasn't that his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl > type. The question beginning of this line of thought, > regarding Percy's priests, is a good one. > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, > can Val from Last Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of > passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, > >grabbing his > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read > it, but I'm > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > >Jonathan Potter > >Spokane WA > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the > jumpsuits and > >acts > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The > > > second > >was > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or > simple), holy > >face? > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft > > > but > >he's > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > >attention > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the > > > important questions. Worth noting is that the priests in > 2nd Coming > > > are Anglican > >(as > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of > > > passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second > Coming. I > > > >don't recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to > > > >encourage Will Barrett to join his church's men's group > outings and > > > >otherwise come "into the fold" was one, and represented the kind > > > >the extreme earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found > > > >simultaneously cloying and yet not unimportant to a > community. The > > > >second was an older, former renegade missionary who > jolts Will into > > > >his final, redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a > > > >giver." I found this Percy novel to be his most > accomplished and > > > >accessible: a solidly grounded meditation on suburban > malaise and > > > >self-delusion, an effective and prescient social satire (Will's > > > >daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms > >are > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull > off. It > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to > suicide to > > > >a saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey > > > >flourishes of so many other social satires of the time - > and afterward. > >Basically, > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his > head. I also > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after > > > >leaving him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > Dye, Steve > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be > interesting to > > > >see the responses you get! > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > >Director > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > Gray, Rich > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in > Percy's novels? > > > >Is there any common thread? > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo > Smith. There > > > >must be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if > Catholic Percy > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download > today - it's > >FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today > - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Apr 10 21:28:31 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:28:31 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <12305a9c0604091624t2a9b2579m2c485f5265511303@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You're right, Boomer is servicable, but he clearly doesn't "get it." Of course, neither does Will. Remember, he asks Sutter, "What happened back there?" And Sutter is the only one who knows--what does that say about Sutter? Perhaps that's why he's still around for Will to send his letter to in SC. --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Jonathan Potter" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:24:18 -0700 > >You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee ought >to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > >I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two >collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the >interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell whether >Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he >is >deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole >truth." > >To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, >latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological >revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It involves >Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee] >who >is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]." (More >Conversations, p. 48) > >I guess you could expand the original question about priests to consider >Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels. Val would >be one to consider for sure. And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer, >along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in >LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable >job with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears >earlier. > >--Jonathan > > >On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, > > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany >desk > > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." > > Both > > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy > > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't >have > > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's > > rant: > > > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the > > same > > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How >impatient! > > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How >pleasure-loving! > > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than > > any > > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so >selfish > > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot > > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with >shame. > > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more >and > > more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do >you > > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and >thank > > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most >generous > > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't >that > > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question > > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good > > one. > > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from > > Last > > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > > --Rhonda > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, >grabbing > > >his > > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm > > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > > > >Jonathan Potter > > >Spokane WA > > > > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and > > >acts > > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The >second > > >was > > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy > > >face? > > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft >but > > >he's > > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > > >attention > > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the > > important > > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are >Anglican > > >(as > > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I > > don't > > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage > > Will > > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I >found > > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a > > solidly > > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an > > effective > > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" >enthusiasms > > >are > > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to >a > > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey > > flourishes > > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. > > >Basically, > > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after > > leaving > > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to >see > > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > > >Director > > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org] > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? >Is > > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There > > must > > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > > >FREE! > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > -- > > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Apr 10 21:49:24 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:49:24 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich-- I hadn't thought of that scene from MG, but, thinking of it now, I agree with your assessment. Particularly when I think of Lonnie's presence. And, regarding the presence of grace, the moment near the end of the novel, when the man comes out of the church on Ash Wednesday, is another one of those moments of potential grace. By the way, I'm certain Weatherbee is Episcopalian--as priests, they, too, are at times called "Father." It's one of those holdovers from Catholicism and the Anglican church's odd beginning. --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Gray, Rich" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:56:23 -0400 > >Rhonda and Jonathan, > >I have been away for several days while you have been working on the >question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful >conversation. > >As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more >insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. > >I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him >substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with Jack >deferring to the institution's residents. > >Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and >practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this ancient-based >theology. His beliefs are sociological. > >Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. I >think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every novel. >For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an event at which a >priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can use a priest to show the >presence of grace, whereas without a priest, you must use symbolic >settings, characters praying, characters talking about their faith, and >scripture quoted or alluded to. > >How does this sound? > >Rich > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] > Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > Cc: > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee ought >to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > > I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two >collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the >interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell whether >Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he >is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole >truth." > > To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, >latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological >revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It involves >Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee] >who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]." >(More Conversations, p. 48) > > I guess you could expand the original question about priests to consider >Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels. Val would >be one to consider for sure. And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer, >along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG >in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job >with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. > > --Jonathan > > > On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany >desk > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." >Both > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's >rant: > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the >same > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient! > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How >pleasure-loving! > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than >any > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with >shame. > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and > more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most >generous > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good >one. > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from >Last > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing > >his > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > >Jonathan Potter > >Spokane WA > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > > wrote: > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and > >acts > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second > >was > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy > >face? > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but > >he's > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > >attention > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the >important > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are >Anglican > >(as > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. I >don't > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage >Will > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I >found > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a >solidly > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an >effective > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms > >are > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to >a > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey >flourishes > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. > >Basically, > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after >leaving > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to >see > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > >Director > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? >Is > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There >must > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's > >FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > ><< winmail.dat >> >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Mon Apr 10 21:54:45 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:54:45 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: <20060409203221.yup1cqem804cowow@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: David, It makes perfect sense to me. In fact, that's the place where Percy differed from Kierkegaard. Whereas Kierkegaard saw that transition to the religious as a solitary movement, made without temporal aid, Percy makes "the other" a necessary component of salvation--its like that vision of the maculate Christ is LITR (which, long ago, was the starting point of this conversation) --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: "Beck, David A" >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400 > >Rich, >You wrote: > > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > > >Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the >priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did >many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his >interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way >street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about >Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he >is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John >has definitely returned to his Catholic faith. >What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of >Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and >interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he >shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take >characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a >"dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But >he didn't. >In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by >someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain >novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in >Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on >the surface). >In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to >offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end, >More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world." >So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in >Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy >seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other >doesn't have to be clergy. >Does that make sense? >-David > >Quoting "Gray, Rich" : > > > Rhonda and Jonathan, > > > > I have been away for several days while you have been working on the > > question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful > > conversation. > > > > As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more > > insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. > > > > I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him > > substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with > > Jack deferring to the institution's residents. > > > > Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and > > practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this > > ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological. > > > > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > > > > How does this sound? > > > > Rich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] > > Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM > > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee > > ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > > > > I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two > > collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the > > interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell > > whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong > > track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may > > lead him to the whole truth." > > > > To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American, > > latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological > > revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It > > involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest > > [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the > > younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48) > > > > I guess you could expand the original question about priests to > > consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's > > novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add > > Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm > > not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it > > seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism -- > > but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. > > > > --Jonathan > > > > > > On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's worth, > > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany >desk > > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." >Both > > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why >Percy > > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't >have > > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's >rant: > > > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at > > the same > > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How >impatient! > > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How >pleasure-loving! > > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more > > than any > > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so >selfish > > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot > > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with >shame. > > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more >and > > more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do >you > > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and >thank > > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most >generous > > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't >that > > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question > > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a > > good one. > > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val > > from Last > > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > > --Rhonda > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, >grabbing > > >his > > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but >I'm > > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was > > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > > > >Jonathan Potter > > >Spokane WA > > > > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits >and > > >acts > > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The >second > > >was > > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is > > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), >holy > > >face? > > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft >but > > >he's > > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying > > >attention > > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the > > important > > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are >Anglican > > >(as > > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming. > > I don't > > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage >Will > > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise >come > > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme > > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found >simultaneously > > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was >an > > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final, > > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I >found > > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a >solidly > > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an > > effective > > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" >enthusiasms > > >are > > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull off. It > > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide >to a > > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey > > flourishes > > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward. > > >Basically, > > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head. I also > > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after >leaving > > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, >Steve > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to >see > > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > > >Director > > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? > Is > > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a main > > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There >must > > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy > > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - >it's > > >FREE! > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > -- > > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jdp at scn.org Tue Apr 11 02:09:46 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:09:46 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12305a9c0604102309o30bb8abcn98f76b546c15c7d3@mail.gmail.com> In *Pilgrim in the Ruins*, Jay Tolson discusses the Episcopalian factor in *The Second Coming*: "Put positively, Episcopalianism is Catholicism withouth absolutism; put negatively, it is Catholicism without spine, invertebrate Catholicism. Yet here enters the complexity of Percy as a novelist: he does not judge Barrett's religion as a lesser thing. In fact, Percy's novel seems generously to imply that the fuzzy accommodationism of the Episcopal communion may have something more to recommend it than the principled dogmatism of his own church. Not that Percy believes this. (Percy, one might say, is to Will barrett what Catholicism is to Episcopalianism.) But as a novelist, Percy cuts against his own grain, against the bias of his own belief, in order to play with possibilities beyond his knowing. This constitutes the dialectical, or dialogic, aspect of his fiction, and it is one reason why his novels are sometimes accused of being unresolved." (p. 425) On 4/10/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > Rich-- > > I hadn't thought of that scene from MG, but, thinking of it now, I agree > with your assessment. Particularly when I think of Lonnie's presence. And, > regarding the presence of grace, the moment near the end of the novel, > when > the man comes out of the church on Ash Wednesday, is another one of those > moments of potential grace. > > By the way, I'm certain Weatherbee is Episcopalian--as priests, they, too, > are at times called "Father." It's one of those holdovers from Catholicism > and the Anglican church's odd beginning. > > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Gray, Rich" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:56:23 -0400 > > > >Rhonda and Jonathan, > > > >I have been away for several days while you have been working on the > >question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful > >conversation. > > > >As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more > >insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. > > > >I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him > >substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with Jack > >deferring to the institution's residents. > > > >Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and > >practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this ancient-based > >theology. His beliefs are sociological. > > > >Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. I > >think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every novel. > >For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an event at which > a > >priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can use a priest to show > the > >presence of grace, whereas without a priest, you must use symbolic > >settings, characters praying, characters talking about their faith, and > >scripture quoted or alluded to. > > > >How does this sound? > > > >Rich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] > > Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM > > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. > Weatherbee ought > >to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > > > > I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the > two > >collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the > >interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell > whether > >Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he > >is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole > >truth." > > > > To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced > American, > >latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological > >revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It > involves > >Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee] > >who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]." > >(More Conversations, p. 48) > > > > I guess you could expand the original question about priests to > consider > >Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels. Val > would > >be one to consider for sure. And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer, > >along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in > LG > >in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable > job > >with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. > > > > --Jonathan > > > > > > On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what > it's worth, > > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack > Curl's mahogany > >desk > > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican > crucifixes." > >Both > > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't > remember is why Percy > > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, > but I don't have > > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. > Weatherbee's > >rant: > > > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on > earth, and at the > >same > > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! > How impatient! > > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How > >pleasure-loving! > > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we > have more than > >any > > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet > are so selfish > > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own > pleasure? I cannot > > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me > blush with > >shame. > > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That > is why more and > > more people beat their children. Children interfere with > pleasure. Do you > > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great > blessings and thank > > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best > dearest most > >generous > > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And > Boomer (wasn't that > > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The > question > > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's > priests, is a good > >one. > > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, > can Val from > >Last > > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > > --Rhonda > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical > Discussion" > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at > the end, grabbing > > >his > > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've > read it, but I'm > > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book > that was > > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > > > >Jonathan Potter > > >Spokane WA > > > > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the > jumpsuits and > > >acts > > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl > maybe? The second > > >was > > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of > Americans is > > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or > simple), holy > > >face? > > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems > to be daft but > > >he's > > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else > is paying > > >attention > > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks > him the > >important > > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd > Coming are > >Anglican > > >(as > > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical > Discussion" > > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > > >To: > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The > Second Coming. I > >don't > > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying > to encourage > >Will > > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and > otherwise come > > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the > extreme > > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found > simultaneously > > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The > second was an > > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into > his final, > > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a > giver." I > >found > > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and > accessible: a > >solidly > > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and > self-delusion, an > >effective > > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's > "new-age" enthusiasms > > >are > > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to > pull off. It > > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse > to suicide to > >a > > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind > of dopey > >flourishes > > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and > afterward. > > >Basically, > > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his > head. I also > > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will > Barrett after > >leaving > > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf > Of Dye, Steve > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be > interesting to > >see > > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > > >Director > > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in > Percy's novels? > >Is > > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows > into a main > > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo > Smith. There > >must > > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if > Catholic Percy > > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today - it's > > >FREE! > > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > -- > > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download > today - it's > >FREE! > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > ><< winmail.dat >> > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at scn.org Tue Apr 11 02:26:23 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:26:23 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] LITR In-Reply-To: References: <20060409203221.yup1cqem804cowow@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <12305a9c0604102326r14c805aeg6c36e2339872196b@mail.gmail.com> To bring it back around to what Rich was saying, I think there's a larger framework for Percy -- a sacramental framework -- within which the priest, "the other," the Jews, the natural world, Binx's dung beetle -- all function sacramentally as signs of God's grace, or triggers for awakening to the mysterious and gratuitous gift that existence is, and signs that point the wayfarer onward -- the footprint in the sand, the thread in the labyrinth, all those recurring Percy motifs that are ultimately woven into a sacramental fabric -- but writ large in the Incarnation, the Church, the magisterial tradition, the deposit of faith handed down from the apostles and transmitted by concrete acts and gestures: laying on of hands, ingesting Christ's body and blood, enjoying that Sears Best mattress and twining as the ivy twineth, etc. --Jonathan On 4/10/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > David, > > It makes perfect sense to me. In fact, that's the place where Percy > differed > from Kierkegaard. Whereas Kierkegaard saw that transition to the religious > as a solitary movement, made without temporal aid, Percy makes "the other" > a > necessary component of salvation--its like that vision of the maculate > Christ is LITR (which, long ago, was the starting point of this > conversation) > > --Rhonda > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > >From: "Beck, David A" > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > >To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400 > > > >Rich, > >You wrote: > > > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > > > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > > > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > > > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > > > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > > > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > > > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > > > > >Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the > >priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did > >many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his > >interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way > >street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about > >Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he > >is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John > >has definitely returned to his Catholic faith. > >What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of > >Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and > >interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he > >shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take > >characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a > >"dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But > >he didn't. > >In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by > >someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain > >novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in > >Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on > >the surface). > >In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to > >offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end, > >More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world." > >So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in > >Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy > >seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other > >doesn't have to be clergy. > >Does that make sense? > >-David > > > >Quoting "Gray, Rich" : > > > > > Rhonda and Jonathan, > > > > > > I have been away for several days while you have been working on the > > > question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful > > > conversation. > > > > > > As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more > > > insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels. > > > > > > I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him > > > substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with > > > Jack deferring to the institution's residents. > > > > > > Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and > > > practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this > > > ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological. > > > > > > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me. > > > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every > > > novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an > > > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can > > > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest, > > > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters > > > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to. > > > > > > How does this sound? > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp at scn.org] > > > Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM > > > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > Cc: > > > Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. > Weatherbee > > > ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things. > > > > > > I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the > two > > > collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the > > > interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell > > > whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong > > > track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may > > > lead him to the whole truth." > > > > > > To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced > American, > > > latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological > > > revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It > > > involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest > > > [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the > > > younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48) > > > > > > I guess you could expand the original question about priests to > > > consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's > > > novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add > > > Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm > > > not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it > > > seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism -- > > > but I can't remember whether he appears earlier. > > > > > > --Jonathan > > > > > > > > > On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote: > > > > > > You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what > it's worth, > > > chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack > Curl's mahogany > >desk > > > with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican > crucifixes." > >Both > > > Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't > remember is why > >Percy > > > made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, > but I don't > >have > > > the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. > Weatherbee's > >rant: > > > > > > How can we be the best earest most generous people on > earth, and at > > > the same > > > time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! > How > >impatient! > > > How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How > >pleasure-loving! > > > How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we > have more > > > than any > > > other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet > are so > >selfish > > > and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own > pleasure? I cannot > > > believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me > blush with > >shame. > > > Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That > is why more > >and > > > more people beat their children. Children interfere with > pleasure. Do > >you > > > hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great > blessings and > >thank > > > God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best > dearest most > >generous > > > people on earth are so unhappy?" > > > > > > He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And > Boomer (wasn't > >that > > > his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The > question > > > beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's > priests, is a > > > good one. > > > It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, > can Val > > > from Last > > > Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith? > > > --Rhonda > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jonathan Potter" > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical > Discussion" > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > > >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700 > > > > > > > >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at > the end, > >grabbing > > > >his > > > >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've > read it, but > >I'm > > > >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book > that was > > > >Anglican/Episcopalian. > > > > > > > >Jonathan Potter > > > >Spokane WA > > > > > > > > > > > >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the > jumpsuits > >and > > > >acts > > > > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl > maybe? The > >second > > > >was > > > > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of > Americans is > > > > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or > simple), > >holy > > > >face? > > > > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems > to be daft > >but > > > >he's > > > > > really the one that's onto something that no one else > is paying > > > >attention > > > > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks > him the > > > important > > > > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd > Coming are > >Anglican > > > >(as > > > > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot). > > > > > > > > > > --Rhonda > > > > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst > > > > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: > > > > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical > Discussion" > > > > > >< percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > > > >To: > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The > Second Coming. > > > I don't > > > > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying > to encourage > >Will > > > > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and > otherwise > >come > > > > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the > extreme > > > > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found > >simultaneously > > > > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The > second was > >an > > > > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into > his final, > > > > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a > giver." I > >found > > > > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and > accessible: a > >solidly > > > > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and > self-delusion, an > > > effective > > > > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's > "new-age" > >enthusiasms > > > >are > > > > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to > pull off. It > > > > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse > to suicide > >to a > > > > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind > of dopey > > > flourishes > > > > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and > afterward. > > > >Basically, > > > > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his > head. I also > > > > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will > Barrett after > >leaving > > > > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before. > > > > > > > > > > > >Peace. > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf > Of Dye, > >Steve > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM > > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be > interesting to > >see > > > > > >the responses you get! > > > > > > > > > > > >Steven L. Dye, MA > > > > > >Director > > > > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc. > > > > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338 > > > > > >Lexington, KY 40511 > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > >From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > > ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM > > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye at bluegrass.org ] > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM > > > > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion > > > > > > > > > > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in > Percy's novels? > > Is > > > > > >there any common thread? > > > > > > > > > > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows > into a main > > > > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo > Smith. There > >must > > > > > >be a purpose for these priests. > > > > > > > > > > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if > Catholic Percy > > > > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic. > > > > > > > > > > > >Rich Gray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today - > >it's > > > >FREE! > > > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > > > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download > today - it's > >FREE! > > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > -- > > > An archive of all list discussion is available at > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > > > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at > http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >An archive of all list discussion is available at > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From apridgen at pinehurst.net Tue Apr 11 12:34:38 2006 From: apridgen at pinehurst.net (Allen Pridgen) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:34:38 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: <443BDA9E.6040101@pinehurst.net> Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Tue Apr 11 13:16:54 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:16:54 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: Allen, It is great to hear from you again. Thanks so much for your information on Father Weatherbee. I will get ahold of your book and check it out. Any further ideas on "priests," Episcopal or Catholic? Rich _____ From: Allen Pridgen [mailto:apridgen at pinehurst.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:35 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu Tue Apr 11 14:10:28 2006 From: Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu (Collins, Bernard F. (Skip)) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:10:28 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the computer, "reading a book, Christianity Without God." B ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:17 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Allen, It is great to hear from you again. Thanks so much for your information on Father Weatherbee. I will get ahold of your book and check it out. Any further ideas on "priests," Episcopal or Catholic? Rich ________________________________ From: Allen Pridgen [mailto:apridgen at pinehurst.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:35 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwarren at boultcummings.com Tue Apr 11 14:49:43 2006 From: rwarren at boultcummings.com (Warren, Jr., Richard F) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:49:43 -0500 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: <39C8E95AD9A24F41A0178FB641077A5AB71BA1@BCCB-EXCHANGE.BCCB.COM> I recommend Allen's excellent book to the list. I have read most of the biographies and critical works on Percy's novels and this is one of the more helpful ones for me. From other posts to this list, I know that many others continue to engage Walker for one of the reasons that has kept me returning to him over the years which is his insight into the struggle that so many of his characters have reconciling their faith to the "new modern world." I read Allen's book a couple of years ago and was struck by his insight into the understanding of the world as a sacramental place in the Percy canon and his detailed readings of the novels. It is good enough that I plan to read it again and it will send you back to the novels as well. Richard Richard F. Warren Boult, Cummings, Conners & Berry, PLC 1600 Division Street, Suite 700 P.O. Box 340025 Nashville, Tennessee 37203 direct tel.: (615) 252-2337 direct fax: (615) 252-6337 Mobile tel: (615) 969-5327 e-mail: rwarren at boultcummings.com ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Allen Pridgen Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:35 AM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen ************************************************************ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete the contents of this message without disclosing the contents to anyone, using them for any purpose, or storing or copying the information on any medium. ************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Tue Apr 11 16:53:32 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:53:32 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: Bernard, Very helpful. Would Fr. Kev be a feint to throw readers off from classifying all priests as emblems of Christianity? In The Thanatos Syndrome doesn't Tom More make a passing remark to update us on Fr. Kev? I can't find it quickly. Rich _____ From: Collins, Bernard F. (Skip) [mailto:Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:10 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the computer, "reading a book, Christianity Without God." B _____ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:17 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Allen, It is great to hear from you again. Thanks so much for your information on Father Weatherbee. I will get ahold of your book and check it out. Any further ideas on "priests," Episcopal or Catholic? Rich _____ From: Allen Pridgen [mailto:apridgen at pinehurst.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:35 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu Tue Apr 11 23:23:03 2006 From: Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu (Collins, Bernard F. (Skip)) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:23:03 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: I suppose Percy intended Fr. Kev, (like the "nutty American nuns, female Clint Eastwoods who have it in for men and are out to get the Pope" mentioned in Lost in the Cosmos) to be emblematic of the rather strange situation Catholics are in vis-?-vis modernity. The tensions between Catholicism and the peculiarly American mode of self-worship, are bound to produce some weird outcomes. B ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:54 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Bernard, Very helpful. Would Fr. Kev be a feint to throw readers off from classifying all priests as emblems of Christianity? In The Thanatos Syndrome doesn't Tom More make a passing remark to update us on Fr. Kev? I can't find it quickly. Rich ________________________________ From: Collins, Bernard F. (Skip) [mailto:Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:10 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the computer, "reading a book, Christianity Without God." B ________________________________ From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:17 PM To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee Allen, It is great to hear from you again. Thanks so much for your information on Father Weatherbee. I will get ahold of your book and check it out. Any further ideas on "priests," Episcopal or Catholic? Rich ________________________________ From: Allen Pridgen [mailto:apridgen at pinehurst.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:35 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). Allen Pridgen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHForest at cs.com Wed Apr 12 04:02:42 2006 From: JHForest at cs.com (JHForest at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:02:42 EDT Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: <22f.9f84525.316e0e22@cs.com> Re Allen's book on Walker Percy, here's a very postive colmment about it that I found on the Amazon.com site: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1575910403/qid=1144828789/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/1 03-4441318-5175843?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 Jim Forest >> All about Walker Percy, Literature, and The Human Condition, January 19, 2002 Reviewer: Sarah Williams (Bristol, VA USA) - See all my reviews I came to this book for a good literary discussion, which I know Pridgen can produce in abundance. What I found is a sense of the connectedness of all things, a strong defense of the Percy premise that a self alone is ridiculous, and a better understanding of the relationship between the literary elements of author, text, critic, and reader. Pridgen's book Waker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes: the Search in the Desert is definitive on the subject of Walker Percy. I read or re-read the Percy novels and some of the Percy essays while reading Sacramental Landscapes for the first time. If you enjoyed The Last Gentleman but couldn't figure out the ending, or if you are still looking for words to connect the Will Barrett of that book to the Will Barrett in its sequel, search no more. Allen Pridgen has assembled the details of the character, along with the social, religious, ethical, and philosophical details of the novels. He gives the same fine analytical treatment to Love in the Ruins and The Thanatos Syndrome. If you are a reader, you know that some books you forget and others you carry with you forever. What you may not know, and in a busy modern world may never take time to understand, is why this is so. Sacramental Landscapes is a discussion of the reason that Percy's books print themselves in your mind and become a part of you. If you have taken time to try to understand this reason, you are probably a writer. Or you might be a person with an advanced degree in philosophy, religion, or literature. I am none of these except perhaps a little of a writer. What draws me to the Pridgen analysis of Percy is my heritage in Christian fundamentalism, my enduring interest in Mary as envisioned by the Catholic church in doctrine, sacrament, and legend, and my native tendency to see any occurrence of beauty or meaning as a magical effect of the energetic source that we all forever seek. Sacramental Landscapes: the Search in the Desert is as compelling as its subject matter, which includes Walker Percy, Christian theology and tradition, and what it means to be human. With thorough scholarly attention to Percy, to the texts of Percy's books and essays, to the cultural and religious assumptions embedded in the works, and to previous critical comment, the book is also a clear revelation of the multifaceted nature of the literary experience for those who participate as readers, writers, critics, students, and teachers. << In a message dated 4/11/2006 8:51:15 PM Romance Daylight Time, rwarren at boultcummings.com writes: > Subj: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee > Date:4/11/2006 8:51:15 PM Romance Daylight Time > From:rwarren at boultcummings.com > Reply-to:percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > To:percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Received from Internet: > > > I recommend Allen's excellent book to the list. I have read most of the > biographies and critical works on Percy's novels and this is one of the more > helpful ones for me. From other posts to this list, I know that many others > continue to engage Walker for one of the reasons that has kept me returning to > him over the years which is his insight into the struggle that so many of his > characters have reconciling their faith to the "new modern world." I read > Allen's book a couple of years ago and was struck by his insight into the > understanding of the world as a sacramental place in the Percy canon and his > detailed readings of the novels. It is good enough that I plan to read it again > and it will send you back to the novels as well. > > Richard > > Richard F. Warren > > Boult, Cummings, Conners &Berry, PLC > 1600 Division Street, Suite 700 > P.O. Box 340025 > Nashville, Tennessee 37203 > direct tel.: (615) 252-2337 > direct fax: (615) 252-6337 > Mobile tel: (615) 969-5327 > e-mail: rwarren at boultcummings.com > > From: percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:percy-l-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Allen Pridgen > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:35 AM > To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee > > Fr. Weatherbee retires from the sacramental world to spend his time playing > with toy trains, while more informed searchers like Father Smith are up in > the firetower looking for signs (with his azimuth -- Arabic for "the way"). > See my Walker Percy's Sacramental Landscapes (Susquehanna UP, 2000) for a > new way of looking at Fr. Weatherbee (137-42). > > Allen Pridgen * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHForest at cs.com Wed Apr 12 04:16:33 2006 From: JHForest at cs.com (JHForest at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:16:33 EDT Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: <371.1dc3b25.316e1161@cs.com> In a message dated 4/11/2006 8:10:58 PM Romance Daylight Time, Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu writes: > Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He > "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the computer, > "reading a book, Christianity Without God." > Fr Kev represents a form of post-Christianity in which social adaptation has the upper hand. Fr Kev has no obvious interest in the Gospel or Jesus Christ and has lost all sense of connection with his (former) Church. Jim * * * Jim and Nancy Forest Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands Jim's e-mail: jhforest at cs.com (alternative address: jhforest at gmail.com) Nancy's e-mail: forestflier at cs.com (alternative address: forestflier at gmail.com) Jim and Nancy Forest web site: www.incommunion.org/forest-flier/ Forest-Flier Editorial Services: www.incommunion.org/forest-flier/ffes/ Jim's photo web site: www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/ Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: www.incommunion.org * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Wed Apr 12 09:13:08 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:13:08 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] LITR Message-ID: As the first-named priest in Percy's work, Boomer could be considered a prototype priest for Percy. Boomer is routine and unable to communicate with the skepticism in the hospital room. Yet his dumbness can be his asset as a character -- he engages Will, Sutter, and Jaime symbolically and sacramentally, rather than rationally. In Percy's essay "Notes for a Novel about the End of the World" in The Message in the Bottle, p. 118, Percy writes: "How does [the Christian novelist] set about writing, having cast his lot with a discredited Christendom and having inherited a defunct vocabulary? He . . . calls on every ounce of cunning, craft, and guile he can muster from the darker regions of his soul. The fictional use of violence, shock, comedy, insult, the bizarre, are the everyday tools of his trade. . . . Flannery O'Connor . . . . replied that for the near-blind you have to draw very large, simple caricatures." Is Boomer -- and are priests generally in Percy -- simple caricatures? Rich -----Original Message----- From: RHONDA MCDONNELL [mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:29 PM To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR You're right, Boomer is servicable, but he clearly doesn't "get it." Of course, neither does Will. Remember, he asks Sutter, "What happened back there?" And Sutter is the only one who knows--what does that say about Sutter? Perhaps that's why he's still around for Will to send his letter to in SC. --Rhonda From rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com Sat Apr 15 00:09:09 2006 From: rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com (RHONDA MCDONNELL) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:09:09 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee In-Reply-To: <371.1dc3b25.316e1161@cs.com> Message-ID: This might be stating the obvious (or, who knows, it might be way off base), but after seeing the Kinsey biopic, I couldn't help but think that Fr. Kev Kevin was a send up of Kinsey, who apparently came from a fundamentalist background and ended up at some sort of vagina console of his own. --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: JHForest at cs.com >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:16:33 EDT > >In a message dated 4/11/2006 8:10:58 PM Romance Daylight Time, >Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu writes: > > Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He > > "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the >computer, > > "reading a book, Christianity Without God." > > > >Fr Kev represents a form of post-Christianity in which social adaptation >has >the upper hand. Fr Kev has no obvious interest in the Gospel or Jesus >Christ >and has lost all sense of connection with his (former) Church. > >Jim >* * * >Jim and Nancy Forest >Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands >Jim's e-mail: jhforest at cs.com (alternative address: jhforest at gmail.com) >Nancy's e-mail: forestflier at cs.com (alternative address: >forestflier at gmail.com) >Jim and Nancy Forest web site: www.incommunion.org/forest-flier/ >Forest-Flier Editorial Services: www.incommunion.org/forest-flier/ffes/ >Jim's photo web site: www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/ >Orthodox Peace Fellowship web site: www.incommunion.org >* * * >-- >An archive of all list discussion is available at >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From RGray at montreat.edu Sat Apr 15 22:43:42 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:43:42 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] weatherbee Message-ID: Is Kev Kevin still a priest, or has he left the priesthood in Love in the Ruins? Another priest is Fr. Placide in Thanatos Syndrome. He performs the routine tasks of a suburban pastor. He calls Tom More to attend to Fr. Reynaldo Smith, isolated in the firetower. Does Placide represent any themes, or is he simply part of the context? Rich -----Original Message----- From: RHONDA MCDONNELL [mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell at msn.com] Sent: Sat 4/15/2006 12:09 AM This might be stating the obvious (or, who knows, it might be way off base), but after seeing the Kinsey biopic, I couldn't help but think that Fr. Kev Kevin was a send up of Kinsey, who apparently came from a fundamentalist background and ended up at some sort of vagina console of his own. --Rhonda The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats >From: JHForest at cs.com >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" > >To: percy-l at lists.ibiblio.org >Subject: Re: [percy-l] weatherbee >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:16:33 EDT > >In a message dated 4/11/2006 8:10:58 PM Romance Daylight Time, >Bernard.Collins at jhuapl.edu writes: > > Has anyone mentioned the "Dutch schismatic" Fr. Kev Kevin in LITR? He > > "takes clinical notes, operates the vaginal console," and sits at the >computer, > > "reading a book, Christianity Without God." > > > >Fr Kev represents a form of post-Christianity in which social adaptation >has >the upper hand. Fr Kev has no obvious interest in the Gospel or Jesus >Christ >and has lost all sense of connection with his (former) Church. > >Jim >* * * >Jim and Nancy Forest -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5034 bytes Desc: not available URL: From RGray at montreat.edu Mon Apr 24 16:16:15 2006 From: RGray at montreat.edu (Gray, Rich) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:16:15 -0400 Subject: [percy-l] Moviegoer epilog Message-ID: In the Moviegoer epilog Binx tells his half-siblings that their brother Lonnie is about to die (from a virus infection). Therese asks, "Was he anointed?" Binx replies economically, "Yes." Was this anointing Last Rites or Extreme Unction - or are they the same? Rich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at scn.org Tue Apr 25 17:21:17 2006 From: jdp at scn.org (Jonathan Potter) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:21:17 -0700 Subject: [percy-l] Moviegoer epilog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12305a9c0604251421r6601f819veba1cba7ea504a10@mail.gmail.com> Same thing. Also (and more currently) known as the Sacrament of the Sick or the Anointing of the Sick. cf. http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/heal2.html On 4/24/06, Gray, Rich wrote: > > In the Moviegoer epilog Binx tells his half-siblings that their brother > Lonnie is about to die (from a virus infection). Therese asks, "Was he > anointed?" Binx replies economically, "Yes." > > > > Was this anointing Last Rites or Extreme Unction ? or are they the same? > > Rich > > -- > An archive of all list discussion is available at > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/ > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: