Matthew 5:3a

[Bill Ross 2]

Mat 5:3a μακάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι..

What might this mean?

Thank you.

[Jonathan Robie]

Mat 5:3a μακάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι..

What might this mean?

I'm not sure what your question is - are there particular words you are asking about, or are you struggling with aspects of the grammar?

How much Greek do you know?

[Bill Ross 2]

Just a bit.

I find this phrase completely incomprehensible, particularly the function of EN.

Is it obvious what it means, based on a good handle of the grammar? If so, what would be the grammatic principle that unlocks this?

Thanks.

[Jonathan Robie]

I find this phrase completely incomprehensible, particularly the function of EN.

Is it obvious what it means, based on a good handle of the grammar? If so, what would be the grammatic principle that unlocks this?

Where do you see εν? I think you really mean to ask why τῷ πνεύματι is dative?

See the "dative of respect" in Funk's grammar, section 892.5:

The dative of respect (or relation) is used to denote the standard or person to which the assertion is limited (cf. the accusative of specification or respect, which is sometimes the virtual equivalent of the dative of respect, §894.6).

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(54)	ἡμεῖς φύσει Ἰουδαῖοι	Gal 2:15
       We who are Jews by nature

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(55)	ἐὰν μὴ περιτιμηθῆτε τῷ ἔθει τῷ Μωϋσέως, ...	Acts 15:1
       Unless you are circumcised according to the
       custom of Moses, ...

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(56)	ἥμην δὲ ἀγνοούμενος τῷ προσώπῳ
       ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις τῆς Ἰουδαίας	Gal 1:22
       And I was unknown by sight to the churches
       of Judea

Example (56) provides the basis for comparing respect (τῷ προσώπῳ, by face) and relation (ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις, to the churches) : The former refers to that with respect to which the assertion holds, the latter denotes the person with respect to whom the assertion holds. Cf. Bl-D §197, Smyth §§1495, 1512, 1516.

Funk addresses this example specifically in section 703:

703. Adjective clusters with an attributive dative fall into a number of categories, depending on what the dative specifies. For convenience, noun clusters are also included here (§6990).

703.1 The dative may be a dative of respect (denoting the respect in which the attribution applies):

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(11)  oἱ πτωχοὶ / τῷ πνεύματι	Mt 5:3
      The poor in spirit (i.e., poor with respect to spirit)

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(12)  νεκροὺς [μὲν] / τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ	Rom 6:11
      dead to sin (i.e., dead with respect to sin)

[Iver Larsen]

When the meaning is not clear it is rarely a grammatical problem, but rather a problem with a literal rendering. Although the Greek word πτωχοὶ basically means "poor", the text was first spoken in Hebrew, and the corresponding Hebrew word is much wider in its usage. It can describe a person who is totally dependent on other people to fulfill whatever need they have. They recognize and acknowledge that they need help, in this case with reference to spiritual matters. A free and more understandable translation might be: Blessed are those who acknowledge their dependence on God.

Iver Larsen

[Jason Hare]

When the meaning is not clear it is rarely a grammatical problem, but rather a problem with a literal rendering. Although the Greek word πτωχοὶ basically means "poor", the text was first spoken in Hebrew, and the corresponding Hebrew word is much wider in its usage. It can describe a person who is totally dependent on other people to fulfill whatever need they have. They recognize and acknowledge that they need help, in this case with reference to spiritual matters. A free and more understandable translation might be: Blessed are those who acknowledge their dependence on God.

Iver Larsen

Which raises the question of why you think it was spoken originally in Hebrew and not in Aramaic, and additionally, what you think the original word was which carried all of this extra information. Are we talking about עני οr אביון or another word? Why the need to go back into Hebrew when we don't even have a copy of a Hebrew original?

Certainly the word πτωχός itself carries some heavy baggage in terms of one's dependance on others for sustenance and survival. It (πτωχός) is much stronger than just "I don't have much money in the bank." It is someone who is so poor that they are at the point of begging for survival.

[Mark Lightman]

Iver wrote

A free and more understandable translation might be: Blessed are those who acknowledge their dependence on God.

While I agree 100% with Iver here, I want to mention at this point that Ann Nyland in the Source New Testament renders this

"Happy, spiritually, are the financially poor."

That is, she seems to take τῷ πνεύματι not with οἱ πτωχοὶ but with μακάριοι. I think this is clever, and removes the apparent contradiction with Luke 6:20, which simply has οἱ πτωχοὶ, but I think it also misses Jesus' central point. It was a commonplace in Jewish thought at the time that riches and health and status were a sign of blessings from God. Jesus saw things differently.

But I really wanted to ask you, Iver, what you thought of Nyland's book. She has some very interesting things to say about the Greek, particularly in connection to the papyri, and/but does some outrageous things to the text to support her theology. I imagine you have discussed her on your blog. I don't remember her being discussed on B-Greek. I may post more about her as I read further.

τί φρονίζεις?

[Bill Ross 2]

Sorry, yes, as you said.

What it seems to be saying is "poor with regard to the THE πνεύμα"...

Doesn't that suggest "people are much better off without much πνεύμα"?

[Bill Ross 2]

About the Hebrew suggestion... I would not expect that unless it came by way of the a Greek text to Matthew.

[Jonathan Robie]

About the Hebrew suggestion... I would not expect that unless it came by way of the a Greek text to Matthew.

Ruminator - I sent you a PM this morning asking you to change your user name to fit our policy on user names and profiles.

Please do so.