Acts 21:25

[Jason Hare]

I’m having a hard time understanding how you keep going on with this. I’m just at a loss. It means “to avoid.” That’s what it means. I don’t know why you keep on saying the same thing that is the OPPOSITE of what it means!

You don't seem to have checked dictionnaries.

Thayer (2.b) (https://biblehub.com/greek/5442.htm) and Middle Liddell (C.I,2,3,4,5) (https://lsj.gr/wiki/φυλάσσω) confirm my thought.

Matthew 19:20, Mark 10:20, Luke 18:21, Exodus 12:17, Leviticus 18:4, 20:8, 22, 26:3, "and many other passages".

You have astounded me.

If a meaning can exist, it doesn’t mean that you’re choosing the right meaning for a given passage. I would hope that you would be corrected, not astounded. I’m astounded that you are trying to argue for something that is clearly wrong by every standard, no matter what glosses you might find in a dictionary that would deal with a completely different contextual sense of a word.

This is from BDAG, and this specific verse is mentioned in the entry (all bold and italic formatting is in the original):

③ to be on one’s guard against, look out for, avoid mid. (Hom. et al.; LXX. Test12Patr; ParJer 2:5; Just.) w. acc. of pers. or thing avoided τινά (Aeschyl., Prom. 717; Appian, Bell. Civ. 2, 25 §96 τὸν Πομπήιον; 5, 8 §32: Ps.-Liban., Charact. Ep. p. 30, 12; Just., D. 82, 1) 2 Ti 4:15; IEph 7:1; ITr 7:1. τὶ (Hdt., Aristot. et al.; Jos., Bell. 4, 572) Ac 21:25; ITr 2:3. Also ἀπό τινος (PLond IV, 1349, 35; Dt 23:10; TestSim 4:5; 5:3) Lk 12:15; Hm 5, 1, 7; Hs 5, 3, 6. Foll. by ἵνα μή (B-D-F §392, 1b; cp. Gen 31:29; Just., A I, 14, 1 μή) 2 Pt 3:17.

Source: William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 1068.

Pulling random glosses from a dictionary that agree with an absurd reading of a text does not carry the same weight as actually finding the meaning that is relevant to a specific use in a specific context.

[Eeli Kaikkonen]

You don't seem to have checked dictionnaries.

OK, the verb is common and versatile. Indeed it can mean observe, keep etc. (not "keep for/by itself"!) under some circumstances. This is backed up by Thayer, not by LSJ. But does it mean that here? That's not something you can just choose. That's what Jason is saying. The resources in BibleHub have exactly this verse as an example for meaning "keep from", "abstain". Also the LSJ you linked to has that meaning under definition C II a ("avoid"), and actually LSJ doesn't have meaning "observe, keep" for the middle form of this word, contrary to what you seem to assume.

Check all possible modern translations, today it's easy, you can find for example ESV, NET, NIV, HCSB/CSB, NLT, NASB etc. in one place and compare them. Does any of them agree with your translation? If not, your chances for being right are slim to say the least. Or have you checked any good exegetical commentary?

I highly doubt to be not able to find a ressource (or some) saying what I've said concerning the middle voice..

I can see why you say that, and you may be partly correct. I may be too sensitive against wordings which may -- or may not -- reveal defective understanding of certain linguistic phenomena (and I make such wording and understanding mistakes, too). But you can show such resource, quote it exactly, and I'm pretty sure it -- namely that grammar resource -- doesn't mean what you think it means.

You said

φυλάσσω in the middle voice can mean "to keep for/by itself"

Did you actually find that in some lexicon/dictionary, if you read them carefully?

what mean/express the middle voice in general.

This is what I meant: that's not what the middle voice means "in general". Under some circumstances to do something "for/by itself" -- whatever that means for you, I'm not sure -- can be a correct interpretation for the middle voice. But it's not what the middle voice means "in general". And in any case that meaning can't just be added to any word whatsoever to turn the meaning of the same word in the active voice to make it to mean "to do that thing for/by itself". And that's exactly the reason why good lexicons/dictionaries have sections specifically for middle forms of words. If a meaning isn't found there, it probably doesn't exist for that word.

By the way, LSJ is a three edged sword, and two of them cuts yourself. First, you have to read it very carefully and even then it needs more than novice skills. Second, it's not the best resource for NT Greek even though it covers pretty much. Its scope is too broad to handle NT meanings and examples in any depth, and often it can be seen lacking in that area.

Thayer is old (partly dated). Often useful, though. There's a reason why the best resources often cost something. It's not a reason to not use free resources, but you have to understand that modern resources may supersede them in some respects.

[Devenios Doulenios]

I may have missed it, but I didn't see that anyone in this discussion mentioned a key part of the context: the previous verse, Acts 21:24, which is part of the discussion between Paul and James. After Paul reported to James and the elders of the Jerusalem church that many non-Jews (Gentiles) were converting to Christianity, the group rejoiced. They then referenced the fact that many Jews were also converting. They were concerned about potential trouble between Paul and these Jewish Christians, because they still observed or kept the laws of the Torah. The problem was that these Jewish Christians believed, wrongly, that Paul was teaching Jews not to observe the laws of the Torah, or practice other Jewish customs. To head off potential trouble and disagreement, Paul was advised to pay the expenses of four men who were completing a Jewish purification rite (probably a Nazirite vow).

James says that if Paul does so, the Jewish Christians will realize that the reports about Paul are false, and that he himself does obey the Torah law:

καὶ γνώσονται πάντες ὅτι ὧν κατήχηνται περὶ σοῦ οὐδέν ἐστιν, ἀλλὰ στοιχεῖς καὶ αὐτὸς φυλάσσων τὸν νόμον. (Tyndale House Greek NT)

The NIV (New International Version) reads here: "...Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law." Both texts taken from Bible Gateway site, biblegateway.com.

Pertinent phrases bolded; my emphasis.

Note that James uses in v. 24 the same verb φυλάσσω as he does in v 25. In v. 24 he uses it for keeping (obeying, following) the Torah law.

In v. 25, he means that the Gentile believers were expected only to follow the Torah law to the extent of avoiding or keeping themselves away from the practices he lists.

Not only is it a good practice to use a good dictionary for Greek, it is also a good practice to see how a particular word or phrase is used in context. See how it functions as part of a sentence, then a paragraph, then the chapter it is in, and so forth. Meaning and usage of words is affected by the contexts they appear in.

[Devenios Doulenios]

It is also good, when beginning the study of Greek or any other language, to remember some things to help yourself succeed.

1. Maintain a spirit of humility. There is much to learn, and it is wise to keep this in mind.

2. Make as few assumptions as possible about what you are learning and understanding. Initial conclusions when leaning the meanings and usage of a word or phrase are often wrong, or at least not entirely right. So, rather than stating categorically that such and such a word or a grammatical item means a particular thing, or works a certain way, ask questions to check your understanding.

3. Languages differ a lot in how they express ideas, both in terms of vocabulary choices and in grammar and sentence structure. Greek often does things differently than English, or whatever is your native language.

4. Be willing to ask questions and learn from others who are more advanced in their studies than you are.

5. Remember Koine Greek is a real language spoken by real people. It is not merely a tool for Biblical exegesis or for translation. It is not a code for your native language. Basic principles on language function apply to all languages, whether they are in active use by moderns, or if they are ancient languages. Avoid the mental outlook that ancient Greek (or any other ancient language) is "dead" and so the normal rules of language learning somehow do not apply.

6. Use the language actively, at least to some extent, so it becomes more real to you. It will be easier to have it sink into your heart and mind and permeate it, to become part of you, if you make the effort to do this. Listen to recordings, read aloud, use immersion videos like Alpha with Angela, talk to your pet in Greek if you have one. Or, if you have a patient friend or family member, talk to that person in Greek. Or talk to yourself in Greek. Or try writing a sentence or two describing what you see or are doing. Like, τι βλεπω; Βλεπω τον ηλιον. ο ηλιος φαινει. (What do I see? I see the sun. The sun is shining.)

[Shirley Rollinson]

It is also good, when beginning the study of Greek or any other language, to remember some things to help yourself succeed.

1. Maintain a spirit of humility. There is much to learn, and it is wise to keep this in mind.

2. Make as few assumptions as possible about what you are learning and understanding. Initial conclusions when leaning the meanings and usage of a word or phrase are often wrong, or at least not entirely right. So, rather than stating categorically that such and such a word or a grammatical item means a particular thing, or works a certain way, ask questions to check your understanding.

3. Languages differ a lot in how they express ideas, both in terms of vocabulary choices and in grammar and sentence structure. Greek often does things differently than English, or whatever is your native language.

4. Be willing to ask questions and learn from others who are more advanced in their studies than you are.

5. Remember Koine Greek is a real language spoken by real people. It is not merely a tool for Biblical exegesis or for translation. It is not a code for your native language. Basic principles on language function apply to all languages, whether they are in active use by moderns, or if they are ancient languages. Avoid the mental outlook that ancient Greek (or any other ancient language) is "dead" and so the normal rules of language learning somehow do not apply.

6. Use the language actively, at least to some extent, so it becomes more real to you. It will be easier to have it sink into your heart and mind and permeate it, to become part of you, if you make the effort to do this. Listen to recordings, read aloud, use immersion videos like Alpha with Angela, talk to your pet in Greek if you have one. Or, if you have a patient friend or family member, talk to that person in Greek. Or talk to yourself in Greek. Or try writing a sentence or two describing what you see or are doing. Like, τι βλεπω; Βλεπω τον ηλιον. ο ηλιος φαινει. (What do I see? I see the sun. The sun is shining.)

Thanks for getting us back on track.

[Jason Hare]

It is also good, when beginning the study of Greek or any other language, to remember some things to help yourself succeed.

1. Maintain a spirit of humility. There is much to learn, and it is wise to keep this in mind.

2. Make as few assumptions as possible about what you are learning and understanding. Initial conclusions when leaning the meanings and usage of a word or phrase are often wrong, or at least not entirely right. So, rather than stating categorically that such and such a word or a grammatical item means a particular thing, or works a certain way, ask questions to check your understanding.

3. Languages differ a lot in how they express ideas, both in terms of vocabulary choices and in grammar and sentence structure. Greek often does things differently than English, or whatever is your native language.

4. Be willing to ask questions and learn from others who are more advanced in their studies than you are.

5. Remember Koine Greek is a real language spoken by real people. It is not merely a tool for Biblical exegesis or for translation. It is not a code for your native language. Basic principles on language function apply to all languages, whether they are in active use by moderns, or if they are ancient languages. Avoid the mental outlook that ancient Greek (or any other ancient language) is "dead" and so the normal rules of language learning somehow do not apply.

6. Use the language actively, at least to some extent, so it becomes more real to you. It will be easier to have it sink into your heart and mind and permeate it, to become part of you, if you make the effort to do this. Listen to recordings, read aloud, use immersion videos like Alpha with Angela, talk to your pet in Greek if you have one. Or, if you have a patient friend or family member, talk to that person in Greek. Or talk to yourself in Greek. Or try writing a sentence or two describing what you see or are doing. Like, τι βλεπω; Βλεπω τον ηλιον. ο ηλιος φαινει. (What do I see? I see the sun. The sun is shining.)

Brilliant post, Dewayne!

[Devenios Doulenios]

Χαριν εχω σοι, ω φιλε!

[Devenios Doulenios]

Another thing that helps in language learning, particularly with an ancient language, is to learn by heart a text or a quotation that is meaningful to you. Sometime ago I did this in Greek and Hebrew with Psalm 1. Over the next few years, I will be translating the book of Psalms from Hebrew. I plan to memorize selected Psalms in Hebrew during that journey. Probably will do so in Greek as well.

Try that and see if it helps. I really benefited from doing it with Psalm 1.

[Devenios Doulenios]

και ευχαριστω σοι, ω φιλη!