Imperative and subjunctive
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This is a beginner's forum - see the Koine Greek forum for more advanced discussion of Greek texts. Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up.
When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
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Imperative and subjunctive
In Luke 10 : 4 - μὴ βαστάζετε βαλλάντιον, μὴ πήραν, μὴ ὑποδήματα, καὶ μηδένα κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἀσπάσησθε - the imperative mood is followed by, I think, a subjunctive of prohibition. Is there significance to the meaning in the use of the subjunctive in the second part of the sentence. Why not just use an imperative again? Is there an added force to the prohibition this way, as if greeting someone was especially bad?
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Re: Imperative and subjunctive
Prohibitions in NT Greek are normally expressed either with the aorist subjunctive or the present imperative. It appears to be a purely grammatical issue.
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Re: Imperative and subjunctive
Alan, FWIW, I think what is more interesting is the use of the present and the aorist. It seems to me that the prohibitive present imperative commands a stop to a customary activity, whereas the prohibitive aorist subjunctive prohibits the action as a whole from ever beginning. Stop this and do not do that.Allan Rumsch wrote:In Luke 10 : 4 - μὴ βαστάζετε βαλλάντιον, μὴ πήραν, μὴ ὑποδήματα, καὶ μηδένα κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἀσπάσησθε - the imperative mood is followed by, I think, a subjunctive of prohibition. Is there significance to the meaning in the use of the subjunctive in the second part of the sentence. Why not just use an imperative again? Is there an added force to the prohibition this way, as if greeting someone was especially bad?
Scott Lawson
Re: Imperative and subjunctive
Is there a difference between the English commands "Do not ever touch it again." and "May you never touch it again." and "You shall never touch it again."? I personally feel that though there might be slight differences, it is more in manner than in meaning. Likewise for the imperatives and subjunctives used for prohibitions in Greek in my opinion.Allan Rumsch wrote:In Luke 10 : 4 - μὴ βαστάζετε βαλλάντιον, μὴ πήραν, μὴ ὑποδήματα, καὶ μηδένα κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἀσπάσησθε - the imperative mood is followed by, I think, a subjunctive of prohibition. Is there significance to the meaning in the use of the subjunctive in the second part of the sentence. Why not just use an imperative again? Is there an added force to the prohibition this way, as if greeting someone was especially bad?
Why do you say that the present imperative represents an injunction to stop an ongoing or customary activity? Examples of plain prohibitions with no connotation that what is prohibited was ongoing or customary are:Scott Lawson wrote:Alan, FWIW, I think what is more interesting is the use of the present and the aorist. It seems to me that the prohibitive present imperative commands a stop to a customary activity, whereas the prohibitive aorist subjunctive prohibits the action as a whole from ever beginning. Stop this and do not do that.
[Matt 23:3] παντα ουν οσα εαν ειπωσιν υμιν ποιησατε και τηρειτε κατα δε τα εργα αυτων μη ποιειτε λεγουσιν γαρ και ου ποιουσιν
[Matt 24:6] μελλησετε δε ακουειν πολεμους και ακοας πολεμων ορατε μη θροεισθε δει γαρ γενεσθαι αλλ ουπω εστιν το τελος
[Mark 13:11] και οταν αγωσιν υμας παραδιδοντες μη προμεριμνατε τι λαλησητε αλλ ο εαν δοθη υμιν εν εκεινη τη ωρα τουτο λαλειτε ου γαρ εστε υμεις οι λαλουντες αλλα το πνευμα το αγιον
[Mark 13:21] και τοτε εαν τις υμιν ειπη ιδε ωδε ο χριστος ιδε εκει μη πιστευετε
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Imperative and subjunctive
David, I acknowledge (as per Smyth) that in many cases μή with the present imperative does not refer to the interruption of an action already begun, but to an action still in the more or less distant future against which the speaker urges resistance. Sometimes the referece to the future is directly or indirectly indicated by the context.David Lim wrote:Why do you say that the present imperative represents an injunction to stop an ongoing or customary activity? Examples of plain prohibitions with no connotation that what is prohibited was ongoing or customary are:
[Matt 23:3] παντα ουν οσα εαν ειπωσιν υμιν ποιησατε και τηρειτε κατα δε τα εργα αυτων μη ποιειτε λεγουσιν γαρ και ου ποιουσιν
[Matt 24:6] μελλησετε δε ακουειν πολεμους και ακοας πολεμων ορατε μη θροεισθε δει γαρ γενεσθαι αλλ ουπω εστιν το τελος
[Mark 13:11] και οταν αγωσιν υμας παραδιδοντες μη προμεριμνατε τι λαλησητε αλλ ο εαν δοθη υμιν εν εκεινη τη ωρα τουτο λαλειτε ου γαρ εστε υμεις οι λαλουντες αλλα το πνευμα το αγιον
[Mark 13:21] και τοτε εαν τις υμιν ειπη ιδε ωδε ο χριστος ιδε εκει μη πιστευετε
Scott Lawson