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Re: Vietnam War Anniversary



Ronnie,

Again, your post is way off-topic.  However, I will say that, according to
the "received wisdom" in the discipline of history you CANNOT
accurately predict how things will turn out in the future based on past
events.  For example, the "trendy" line these days is to assume that John
F. Kennedy would have pulled American troops out in 1964 had he been
reelected.  That's projecting thoughts into a dead man's mind.  The short
answer is that we do not and will probably never know what he might have
done.  It's safe to say his "degrees of freedom" would have been limited
to what was politically palatable at that time.

As one Marine Corps buddy brutally (but accurately) put it: "The only
thing we definitely know that went through John F. Kennedy's mind on
November 22, 1963 was a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Carcano round."

Apologies to all.  That's it for me!

Regards,

Mark D. Jaeger
Purdue University Libraries
Special Collections

On Tue, 2 May 2000, Ronnie Cunningham wrote:

> I don't believe that any study of history can be considered Monday morning
> quarterbacking.  Otherwise why would we study it at all.  It is important
> to continually look at Vietnam from many points of view: political,
> historical, military and,  importantly, the affects it had on American
> society for so many years (and, apparently, still has).  It continues to be
> a divisive subject, but one of which I'd like to know more.
>
> I suspect the Vietnam War had a similar affect on Australian society, too,
> and on any nation, on either side, that was involved in it.
>
> Thank you all for your comments.
>
> Ronnie Cunningham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Howard [SMTP:heritage@HALCYON.COM]
> Sent:   Tuesday, May 02, 2000 11:40 AM
> To:     ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject:        Re: Vietnam War Anniversary
>
> To all who responded to my original post, thank you for your comments and
> concerns.  I simply responded to Mr. Scott's message in an open forum, and
> didn't intend to offend anyone's political sensibilities. I've read with
> interest the various posts to this forum, and I'd assumed that the
> discussion of history was of interest to the keepers of the historical
> record.  In the future, I'll try to keep my comments light and on topic.
> Perhaps I'll even weight in on the always enlightening and decidedly on
> topic Friday Humor segments next time around.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Howard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Jaeger <markj@OMNI.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
> To: <ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Vietnam War Anniversary
>
>
> > Howard,
> >
> > First of all, this is all OFF-TOPIC.  If you wish to re-fight the Vietnam
> > War then you might want to join a Vietnam discussion list.  I happen to
> > think you are engaging in Monday-morning quarterbacking but, to
> paraphrase
> > that North Vietnamese officer at the Paris Peace Talks, "What you say may
> > be true; however, it is also irrelevant."
> >
> > Cordially,
> >
> > Mark D. Jaeger
> > Purdue University Libraries
> > Special Collections
> >
> > On Mon, 1 May 2000, Howard wrote:
> >
> > > Had the United States allowed elections to be held in Vietnam after the
> > > defeat of the French in 1954 as called for in the Geneva accords, the
> war
> > > would never have taken place.  But instead, American diplomats, lead by
> John
> > > Foster Dulles,  scuttled the elections (which Ho Chi Minh would have
> easily
> > > won, by every account) and then maneuvered to install a series of
> corrupt
> > > buffoons (Bao Dai, Diem, and various generals and political strongmen)
> in
> > > the newly created state of South Vietnam to do our bidding.
>   Therefore,
> the
> > > resulting carnage was a direct result of American Cold War political
> > > strategizing. And please site your source for the claim that more
> Vietnamese
> > > died after the fall of Saigon in 1975 than had died during the war.
> I've
> > > seen that figure tossed around for years, and no one has ever provided
> me
> > > with a source for that claim.
> > >
> > > Here is an interesting fact-at  the end of WWII, during a ceremony in
> Hanoi,
> > > Ho Chi Minh declared Vietnam to be a Republic.  In attendance were
> various
> > > American dignitaries, and American aircraft flew overhead.  Ho also
> quoted
> > > from the Declaration of Independence during his speech.  Talk about
> missed
> > > opportunities.
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Scott, Paul (FPM) <paul_scott@FPM.CO.HARRIS.TX.US>
> > > To: <ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:51 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Vietnam War Anniversary
> > >
> > >
> > > > While that "crazy Asian war" may have ended with the fall of Saigon,
> the
> > > > killing did not.
> > > >
> > > > The Stalinist and Maoist of North Vietnam and Cambodia killed more
> people
> > > > consolidating their victory than died during the war.
> > > >
> > > > Not everyone on this lists thinks that this is something that we
> should be
> > > > celebrating.
> > > > Paul R. Scott
> > > > Records Manager (and former Capt. USMCR)
> > > > Harris County, Texas
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: J. Frank Cook [SMTP:fcook@LIBRARY.WISC.EDU]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:38 PM
> > > > > To:   ARCHIVES@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> > > > > Subject:      Re: Vietnam War Anniversary
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick J. Prior
> > > > >
> > > > > I am sending this response to the list instead of just to you only
> > > because
> > > > > you did.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, he was a major figure in the anti-war movement here in Madison
> and I
> > > > > was just sharing the story about a good friend of mine -- mostly
> with
> > > > > Midwest Archives Conference members for whom I don't have a
> separate
> > > > > list.  He was never in the military to the best of my knowledge,
> just
> > > > > celebrating an end to "that crazy Asian War" as the popular song
> had
> > > it --
> > > > > and as a lot of us did 25 years ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 12:27 PM 5/1/00 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > >Frank,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I am having a hard time understanding this post.  Was Quinn
> somehow
> > > > > >involved in the final mad rush from Saigon in 1975?  Or was he an
> > > > > anti-war
> > > > > >protester?  Or both?  And what was he celebrating?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yours in Haste,
> > > > > >Patrick J. Prior
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On the 25th anniversary of the end of the war -- and also May
> Day -- it
> > > > > is
> > > > > >fitting to remember the contributions of one of our own to that
> effort.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Patrick M. Quinn, formerly of this shop and now archivist of
> > > Northwestern
> > > > > >University, was interviewed by the Madison evening newspaper, The
> > > Capital
> > > > > >Times, on Saturday, April 29th for their article on "The Fall of
> > > > > >Saigon."  The front page article concluded with:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >         "Patrick Quinn had been gone from Madison for a year, but
> the
> > > > > > calls from
> > > > > >UW friends from around the country flooded in as images of a
> helicopter
> > > > > >pulling away from the US. Embassy in Saigon flashed on the TV
> screen.
> > > > > >         Quinn, a key organizer in Madison's anti-war movement and
> the
> > > > > > assistant
> > > > > >archivist at the State Historical Society, moved on to
> Northwestern
> > > > > >University in 1974 [Patrick worked at the SHSW before coming to
> the
> > > > > >University Archives], where he became the head archivist.  He said
> he
> > > > > >'banged back that Old Style' beer in a private celebration with
> his
> > > > > family,
> > > > > >but said there weren't any public celebrations to join down there.
> > > > > >         The war, he noted, had been fading for years, but there
> had
> > > been
> > > > > > no real
> > > > > >conclusion until that moment."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
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