Funk BIGHG

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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Peter Pankonin » June 22nd, 2011, 9:51 am

What do you think about adding the ubiquitous

previous TOC next

links at the top and bottom? It's a bit of a nuisance to have to click back to the TOC to go to the next page...
--
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby David Lim » June 23rd, 2011, 12:19 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Louis L Sorenson wrote:(1).....I would like to see a set of links at the top of each page.including the section range (or start range). That way people do not have to go the the complicated TOC to find the correct section. When we were editing the book on the editing site, there was a link section at the top of each page.


I added these. It's ugly, and it also shows up on a printed copy, which is unfortunate.

We can probably do something with CSS to improve this. I'd also like to be able to toggle the sections on or off.


http://hardforum.com/archive/index.php/t-1326467.html and http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_mediatypes.asp might help.
Anyway the bold numbers and links are definitely helpful for online viewing. Thanks! :)
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 9th, 2011, 10:42 am

I've gone through Funk and found a number of mostly insignificant errors, (about 300?) and am in the process of trying to figure out the software for doing the changes and committing them to a source control repository, thanks to Jonathan's help. Other than those changes, the big need is for some people to go through the Appendices (Pages 1-184 of volume III and get the parts that are not completed formatted into html.) These are mostly paradigms, word lists, etc.

One thing I think needs to be re-added to the html files is the page numbers. When sources quote the grammar, they usually use Funk's section numbers, but the page reference is also used. The book has a header across every page with the 1) section number range, 2) Chapter Title, and 3) print page number. (The appendices restart page numbering at 1). I suppose this is something that could be stored in the xml/html code without being visible. What are the best ideas for including the page numbers without messing up the view of the web presentation?
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Jonathan Robie » July 9th, 2011, 3:44 pm

Adding page numbers is a pretty big issue, I think. Right now, we have the freedom to change the page flow for different presentations and media, and that's flexibility I'd rather not lose.

How important are page numbers?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Stephen Carlson » July 9th, 2011, 4:59 pm

Jonathan Robie wrote:How important are page numbers?


Personally, I would just cite to the section and note in my "woks consulted" list that I'm using the electronic copy. The section number should be media independent, and I prefer media independent forms of citations.

If the information about the dead tree pagination is required, I'd just insert the page number in brackets like this [*5] at the appropriate place. It's done all the time in the legal field and it goes by the name of "star pagination."

Stephen
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke, New Testament)
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 9th, 2011, 5:18 pm

The issue is other books referring students to Funk. This is most often a section reference, but could be a page number.

Steven Carlson wrote
, I'd just insert the page number in brackets like this [*5] at the appropriate place. It's done all the time in the legal field and it goes by the name of "star pagination."


I think STAR PAGINATION would be an appropriate way to include it in the flow. I'd rather have it there than totally lose it. But then again, the Logos BDAG, etc. does not have page numbers, so perhaps I'm turning into a dinosaur by the compulsion of time not slowing down for me.
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby RickBrannan » July 11th, 2011, 9:33 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote: But then again, the Logos BDAG, etc. does not have page numbers


Actually, the Logos BDAG does have page numbers embedded. In Logos, these can be displayed inline with a "visual filter". In Logos 4, go to the three-interlinked-circles icon (the visual filters supported in the resource) in the resource window, and select the option to display page numbers.
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Logos Bible Software
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 11th, 2011, 10:24 pm

I've been looking at Worldcat.org at the editions of Funk's Beginning-Intermediate Grammar of Helenistic Greek. Is only the first volume (Sight and Sound; Nominal Sytem, and Verbal System) available in the 2nd edition? The Orange cover of the second edition (volume 1) looks like it has the same picture as another book I have seen (a black-figure pottery picture of "two scholars in front of their teachers, learning to write and play the pipes. At the far left sits a pedagogue, who brings the students to school").

Was a 2nd edition created for Volumes II and III?
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 12th, 2011, 7:25 am

I see now that there were all 3 editions done in the 2nd edition and published (2nd printing) in 1977, Sorry for the confusion. Does anyone know if any other additions were made to the second edition other than incorporating the corrigenda?
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Re: Funk BIGHG

Postby Louis L Sorenson » July 15th, 2011, 8:05 pm

I have several questions and suggestions regarding Funk's grammar.

1) I think it would be good to add glosses for the word lists and other Greek texts that do not have glosses. Smyth's "A Greek Grammar" includes glosses for everything. In a web format (vs. print) much more is able to be done without having the space restraints and cost of print volumes. Perhaps we could create a Funk-2 version of his grammar, including glosses to the Greek?

2) Funk in his introduction strongly suggests that his grammar is set up to be the basis for a more complete grammar of Koine Greek. Funk had a bigger vision of his "Hellenistic Grammar"

It had been my original intention to draw far more on texts outside the New Testament and Apostolic Fathers than has in fact been the case. If it proves possible to reduce a significant number of Greek sentences to a code that can be manipulated by a computer, it will be easily possible to work with a much larger body of data. In that case, the promise of the title (hellenistic Greek) will come to fulfillment; as it stands, it is more promise than achievement.There is, of course, a great risk in attempting a new organization of Greek grammar, based on a fresh collection of data. Those who are gracious enough to share the risk will hopefully make suggestions for improvement, note errors of all proportions, and contribute materially to the further editions which will hopefully follow.


He intended his content to be augmented, and adapted his numbering system accordingly....
The numbering system devised for this Grammar requires comment. It is basically a three digit system (§§001-999) with the possibility of infinite expansion: each major section has been assigned unused numbers, and indefinite subdivision is possible. In addition to the convenience in numbering the first edition, the system will permit subsequent editions to retain the same span of numbers for the same sections (e.g. Nominal Word Clusters will always be treated in §§680-779). Sections may be added or deleted without having to renumber the entire Grammar.


He also had a vision of his grammar going further....
In my own defense, I can only say that I finally decided it the better part of wisdom to publish the fruit of ten years of labor rather than wait upon additional years of work.
......
It had been my original intention to draw far more on texts outside the New Testament and Apostolic Fathers than has in fact been the case
.............
Those who are gracious enough to share the risk will hopefully make suggestions for improvement, note errors of all proportions, and contribute materially to the further editions which will hopefully follow.


3) Funk also saw the use/need for an abridged Student's version of his grammar

Many promising suggestions have been made for a revised edition. While it was not possible to undertake a revision at this time, eventually a thoroughly revised and augmented edition will be issued, together with an abbreviated student edition. Meanwhile, the patrons of this grammar are invited to share further in its improvement.


I wonder if the B-Greek community could provide such a δῶρον?


.............
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