Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
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When answering questions in this forum, keep it simple, and aim your responses to the level of the person asking the question.
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
Thank you Shirley, Stephen, etc. One final question before signing off this thread (don't mean to belabor the point):
Some one who has had very little Greek training recently stated (& I quote):
"Greek, as with many languages, uses masculine nouns to refer to classes or groups of people that consist of both men and women. 'Apostles' is a 'people group'." (Hence, the masculine usage).
This sounds like over-simplification to me (?). Ironically, this same writer pointed out that ἐκκλησίας is feminine - which is equally a "people group" (yet does not appear in the masculine contra his wooden statement)?
Your thoughts (again, I will not drag this out )?
Some one who has had very little Greek training recently stated (& I quote):
"Greek, as with many languages, uses masculine nouns to refer to classes or groups of people that consist of both men and women. 'Apostles' is a 'people group'." (Hence, the masculine usage).
This sounds like over-simplification to me (?). Ironically, this same writer pointed out that ἐκκλησίας is feminine - which is equally a "people group" (yet does not appear in the masculine contra his wooden statement)?
Your thoughts (again, I will not drag this out )?
Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
Greek does use the masculine plural to refer to mixed groups. Churches/assemblies are all female, so this rule doesn't apply. The masculine gender is the default gender. The feminine gender is used because the word is feminine, or because all members of the group specified are feminine. The feminine seems to have developed comparatively late in the history of PIE, and I am not sure we can say that the masculine ever lost its generic animate flavour.
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
ἀποσταλος is masculine because it ends in -οςR. Perkins wrote:Thank you Shirley, Stephen, etc. One final question before signing off this thread (don't mean to belabor the point):
Some one who has had very little Greek training recently stated (& I quote):
"Greek, as with many languages, uses masculine nouns to refer to classes or groups of people that consist of both men and women. 'Apostles' is a 'people group'." (Hence, the masculine usage).
This sounds like over-simplification to me (?). Ironically, this same writer pointed out that ἐκκλησίας is feminine - which is equally a "people group" (yet does not appear in the masculine contra his wooden statement)?
Your thoughts (again, I will not drag this out )?
ἐκκλησια is feminine because it ends in -α (the --ας ending is for the Accusative Plural)
Don't try to over-reason this out, because it will blow your mind when you get to towns such as Athens, Corinth, and Jerusalem
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
That's incorrect. οδος and νησος are just two examples of feminine nouns ending in ος.Shirley Rollinson wrote:ἀποσταλος is masculine because it ends in -ος
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
ἀπόστολος?
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
How does one say "Oops" in koineStephen Hughes wrote:ἀπόστολος?
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
I would say it's speaking Greek with an American accent, but I believe you're British.Shirley Rollinson wrote:How does one say "Oops" in koineStephen Hughes wrote:ἀπόστολος?
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
Here's another weird-gender word:
γυναικάριον, ου, τό - idle or silly woman.
Even though it's a ἅπαξ λεγόμενον, I'm memorizing it as I'm certain it'll come in handy soon enough.
γυναικάριον, ου, τό - idle or silly woman.
Even though it's a ἅπαξ λεγόμενον, I'm memorizing it as I'm certain it'll come in handy soon enough.
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
While not a weird-gender word, if there is a need to describe someone, who thinks it's an interruption to what he's doing (or watching) to give you the time of day (receive and return your greeting) is troublesome, then perhaps he may be described as μισοκαλήμερος (cf. καλήμερος).Danny King wrote:Here's another weird-gender word:
γυναικάριον, ου, τό - idle or silly woman.
Even though it's a ἅπαξ λεγόμενον, I'm memorizing it as I'm certain it'll come in handy soon enough.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Romans 16.7 - "Natural Gender" and "Arbitrary Gender"?
Perhaps it's considered weird because it's neuter and the referent is female. Not so weird to a Greek used to neuter diminutives.Stephen Hughes wrote:While not a weird-gender word, .Danny King wrote:Here's another weird-gender word:
γυναικάριον, ου, τό - idle or silly woman.
Even though it's a ἅπαξ λεγόμενον, I'm memorizing it as I'm certain it'll come in handy soon enough.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia