Maybe I am cynical, but I don't think that second year students (save perhaps a truly elite few) are equipped for such a task.Roger McDaniel wrote:It is (as best I recall it) as Dr. Lovell frequently stated it in an exegesis class, and in private conversations where we discussed it further. I believe he held it as a "general principal", though not a "hard and fast rule". I believe that he was urging us as 1st or 2nd year Greek students to attempt to find the subtle difference if it WAS there, but not to strain for a difference that was NOT.
I wasn't asking because of any breach of forum etiquette; I was wondering the whether those were his exact words or the gist of what you understood him to be saying. No worries!Roger McDaniel wrote:I hope you will allow me some forebearance in failing to incorporate Greek text, as I am just beginning to use the forum and figure out the tools to even "quote"
This topic has been addressed one other time on the forum as far as I know...Roger McDaniel wrote:"What differences do you see in phrases and clauses that can mean essentially the same thing?"
I would cite my observations regarding John 21:15-17. I'm sure the forum has pretty much exhausted the discussion of the difference between Jesus' and Peter's use of agape vs phileo (again, please excuse my lack of fonts, I'll try to get a handle on that as soon as possible)
Joking aside, if I thought that there were some type of word play going on in this passage it would have more to do with my perception of the discussion. I am not saying that I think this way, but let's work from this framework for sake of common reference:
1) The author of the Gospel of John witnessed the exchange between Jesus and Peter.
2) What we read in the passage quoted below is an accurate record of what John originally wrote and that it gives us the exact words used by both men.
If I were to accept this as the background of the passage without reservation, then I would be more inclined to accept that the use of the verbs in red could be significant. However, this would be based largely upon my intuitive grasp of the English language which expects questions and answers to share similar language. For instance, if my wife asked me if I loved her she would likely expect either a "yes" or, perhaps, "yes, I love you." If I said, "Yes, I like you." She would likely be upset*! If instead, when asked that same question, I replied, "Yes, I am in love with you." The "subtle difference" could make her even happier than the reply she more likely anticipated. The problem, again, is that I will never have an intuitive grasp of Koine Greek.John 21:15 Ὅτε οὖν ἠρίστησαν λέγει τῷ Σίμωνι Πέτρῳ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· Σίμων Ἰωάννου, ἀγαπᾷς με πλέον τούτων; λέγει αὐτῷ· ναὶ κύριε, σὺ οἶδας ὅτι φιλῶ σε. λέγει αὐτῷ· βόσκε τὰ ἀρνία μου. 16 λέγει αὐτῷ πάλιν δεύτερον· Σίμων Ἰωάννου, ἀγαπᾷς με; λέγει αὐτῷ· ναὶ κύριε, σὺ οἶδας ὅτι φιλῶ σε. λέγει αὐτῷ· ποίμαινε τὰ πρόβατά μου. 17 λέγει αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· Σίμων Ἰωάννου, φιλεῖς με; ἐλυπήθη ὁ Πέτρος ὅτι εἶπεν αὐτῷ τὸ τρίτον· φιλεῖς με; καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ· κύριε, πάντα σὺ οἶδας, σὺ γινώσκεις ὅτι φιλῶ σε. λέγει αὐτῷ· βόσκε τὰ πρόβατά μου.
*Of course, it is also possible that she will recognize from other cues that I were joking and respond appropriately.