Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

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Jonathan Robie
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Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 27th, 2019, 7:00 pm

Acts 9:15 wrote:εἶπεν δὲ πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ κύριος, Πορεύου, ὅτι σκεῦος ἐκλογῆς ἐστίν μοι οὗτος τοῦ βαστάσαι τὸ ὄνομά μου ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ
If there are three items in this list, something deep inside me wants a τε for βασιλέων, something like this:

ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων τε καὶ υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ

Or are there two as some translations imply? If so, I am not quite following the syntax of the phrase. What am I missing here?
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Barry Hofstetter » January 27th, 2019, 9:47 pm

Remember that in τε καί, the enclitic τε functions as the connector/coordinator for the preceding noun, lit. "both nations and kings. The addition τε functions as a simple connector, "and," so "both nations and kings and the sons of Israel." Now that sounds a bit odd in English since we don't really use "both" in a series of three, and so the translations.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Jonathan Robie
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Re: Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 28th, 2019, 6:39 am

Thanks, Barry - I can now see how I misread this τε καί, which still messes me up sometimes. I obviously need to spend a little time mastering this construction (blush) ...

So I should read it like this?

Code: Select all

ἐνώπιον
    τε
       ἐθνῶν καὶ βασιλέων 
    τε 
       υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ
Can I just think of each word in τε καί individually, taking into account that one is postpositive and the other is not, with καί binding more tightly than τε?
0 x
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1564
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Barry Hofstetter » January 28th, 2019, 10:13 am

Jonathan Robie wrote:
January 28th, 2019, 6:39 am
Thanks, Barry - I can now see how I misread this τε καί, which still messes me up sometimes. I obviously need to spend a little time mastering this construction (blush) ...

So I should read it like this?

Code: Select all

ἐνώπιον
    τε
       ἐθνῶν καὶ βασιλέων 
    τε 
       υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ
Can I just think of each word in τε καί individually, taking into account that one is postpositive and the other is not, with καί binding more tightly than τε?
Your diagram is good, but I don't know about "binding more tightly." I think this is just one way in Greek of expressing a series of three.
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N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Matthew Longhorn
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Re: Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Matthew Longhorn » January 29th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Posts like this really do help me in more ways than one. It is great seeing a problem posed, and good answers given. It is equally as great to see established board members and Greek readers asking them, not just us beginners. Gives some hope on those days that not everything seems as easy in translation as you assume it should be.
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Jonathan Robie
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Joined: May 5th, 2011, 5:34 pm
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Acts 9:15 ἐνώπιον ἐθνῶν τε καὶ βασιλέων υἱῶν τε Ἰσραήλ

Post by Jonathan Robie » January 29th, 2019, 7:29 pm

I went and looked for some other interesting cases combining τε and καί. (This is the way I learn and make up for holes in my knowledge ... active learning always helps me.) Here are a few with diagrams showing how I understood them. Feel free to correct ...

Rom.1.14 Ἕλλησίν τε καὶ Βαρβάροις, σοφοῖς τε καὶ ἀνοήτοις ὀφειλέτης εἰμί·

Code: Select all

+ τε 
	Ἕλλησίν καὶ Βαρβάροις, 
+ τε
	σοφοῖς καὶ ἀνοήτοις 
p ὀφειλέτης 
v εἰμί· 
Jas.3.7 πᾶσα γὰρ φύσις θηρίων τε καὶ πετεινῶν ἑρπετῶν τε καὶ ἐναλίων δαμάζεται καὶ δεδάμασται τῇ φύσει τῇ ἀνθρωπίνῃ

Code: Select all

γὰρ 
    s πᾶσα φύσις 
      τε 
           θηρίων καὶ πετεινῶν 
      τε 
           ἑρπετῶν καὶ ἐναλίων 
     v δαμάζεται καὶ δεδάμασται 
     + τῇ φύσει τῇ ἀνθρωπίνῃ, 
I'm working through more examples ...
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ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/

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