1 Sam 15:11

Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Post Reply
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1628
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

1 Sam 15:11

Post by Barry Hofstetter » July 8th, 2019, 11:47 am

Παρακέκλημαι ὅτι ἐβασίλευσα τὸν Σαοὺλ εἰς βασιλέα...

Any of our LXX mavens want to comment on the use of παρακαλέω to render נחם? It seems like such an unusual choice, and only attested in this sense in the LXX.
0 x


N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Ken M. Penner
Posts: 785
Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
Contact:

Re: 1 Sam 15:11

Post by Ken M. Penner » July 8th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 11:47 am
Παρακέκλημαι ὅτι ἐβασίλευσα τὸν Σαοὺλ εἰς βασιλέα...

Any of our LXX mavens want to comment on the use of παρακαλέω to render נחם? It seems like such an unusual choice, and only attested in this sense in the LXX.
παρακαλέω is the usual Greek for נחם (regret, console), fifty-eight times. μετανοέω is its translation only 15 times.
What about Judges 21:6
καὶ παρεκλήθησαν οἱ υἱοὶ Ισραηλ περὶ Βενιαμιν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτῶν
and 2 Kingdoms 24:16?
καὶ ἐξέτεινεν ὁ ἄγγελος τοῦ θεοῦ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ εἰς Ιερουσαλημ τοῦ διαφθεῖραι αὐτήν, καὶ παρεκλήθη κύριος ἐπὶ τῇ κακίᾳ
0 x
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1628
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: 1 Sam 15:11

Post by Barry Hofstetter » July 10th, 2019, 8:09 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:
July 8th, 2019, 1:28 pm

παρακαλέω is the usual Greek for נחם (regret, console), fifty-eight times. μετανοέω is its translation only 15 times.
What about Judges 21:6
καὶ παρεκλήθησαν οἱ υἱοὶ Ισραηλ περὶ Βενιαμιν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ αὐτῶν
and 2 Kingdoms 24:16?
καὶ ἐξέτεινεν ὁ ἄγγελος τοῦ θεοῦ τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ εἰς Ιερουσαλημ τοῦ διαφθεῖραι αὐτήν, καὶ παρεκλήθη κύριος ἐπὶ τῇ κακίᾳ
Interesting. This perhaps suggests that at least for the LXX translators παρακαλέω could bear this sense, even if it's not attested elsewhere in Greek literature. I also find it fascinating that נחמ is translated with μεταμέλομαι in vs. 35, just a short while later in the context.
0 x
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Ken M. Penner
Posts: 785
Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
Contact:

Re: 1 Sam 15:11

Post by Ken M. Penner » July 10th, 2019, 8:20 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:09 am
This perhaps suggests that at least for the LXX translators παρακαλέω could bear this sense, even if it's not attested elsewhere in Greek literature.
I wouldn't suggest that παρακαλέω could bear the sense of repentance for the LXX translators. I'd say he was translating without much thought for the meaning when he translated 1 Sam 15:11. Beginning students tend to do this, as did I. How many times have we been told that In the beginning, the Word was toward God? Translators sometimes get fatigued and write the gloss that their mind defaults to.
So we have an explanation for why this Greek word is used, and it doesn't involve the usual meaning of the word.
Unless we see παρακαλέω used in non-translation Greek literature in the sense of repentance, we shouldn't add this meaning to its lexical entry, as does LEH with "to relent Dt 32,36; id. [περί τινος] JgsA21,6; id. [πρός τινα] JgsB21,6; to regret, to repent 1 Sm 15,11; id. [ἐπί τινι] 2 Sm 24,16"
0 x
Ken M. Penner
St. Francis Xavier University

Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 1628
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: 1 Sam 15:11

Post by Barry Hofstetter » July 10th, 2019, 9:33 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:
July 10th, 2019, 8:20 am
I wouldn't suggest that παρακαλέω could bear the sense of repentance for the LXX translators. I'd say he was translating without much thought for the meaning when he translated 1 Sam 15:11. Beginning students tend to do this, as did I. How many times have we been told that In the beginning, the Word was toward God? Translators sometimes get fatigued and write the gloss that their mind defaults to.
So we have an explanation for why this Greek word is used, and it doesn't involve the usual meaning of the word.
Unless we see παρακαλέω used in non-translation Greek literature in the sense of repentance, we shouldn't add this meaning to its lexical entry, as does LEH with "to relent Dt 32,36; id. [περί τινος] JgsA21,6; id. [πρός τινα] JgsB21,6; to regret, to repent 1 Sm 15,11; id. [ἐπί τινι] 2 Sm 24,16"
Ah, now I get it. I was missing the fact that נחמ could also be used in the sense of "comfort, console." Your explanation makes good sense, so that it really is a translator competence issue.
0 x
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
Χαίρετε ἐν κυρίῳ πάντοτε· πάλιν ἐρῶ, χαίρετε

Post Reply

Return to “Septuagint and Pseudepigrapha”