[Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

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Jason Hare
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[Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 6:42 pm

Post answers to sentence translations here. Pages 23–25.
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: [Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 7:04 pm

Sentences
  1. ἡ ἕως ἀεὶ καλή, καὶ ἐν μέσῃ τῇ ὁδῷ.
  2. τῶν ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ οἰκίᾳ οἱ μὲν νοῦν ἔχουσι, οἱ δὲ οὔ.
  3. οὐδέποτε ἀγαθόν, ὦ φίλε, τὸ δεσπότας τύψαι τοὺς ἵππους.
  4. νῦν οὐ θύσουσιν οἱ μὴ ἐν τῷ νεῷ.
  5. ὁ δοῦλος ὁ μετὰ τοῦ ποιητοῦ βιβλία ἀεὶ ἔφερεν ἐκ τῆς ἐπ᾿ ἄκρᾳ τῇ θαλάττῃ οἰκίας εἰς τούτον τὸν καλὸν νεών.
  6. τῷ ἵππον νέον τοῖς τῆς θαλάττης θεοῖς θῦσαι, ὁ ἐν τῇ μέσῃ οἰκίᾳ τὴν τῆς ἀδελφῆς μοῖραν πάλαι ἔμαθεν.
  7. οἱ ἀπὸ τῆς τῶν καλῶν ἵππων νήσου μόνοι αὖθις ἐσθίουσιν ἐν οἰκίᾳ παλαιᾷ ἐπ᾿ ἄκρᾳ τῇ θαλάττῃ.
  8. καὶ ἡ εἰρήνη, ὦ καλέ, καὶ ἡ ἐλευθερία καὶ ἡ ἀρετὴ τοῖς ἐλευθεροῖς φίλαι.
  9. ὁ ἐν μέσοις τοῖς ἀγγέλοις ἐθέλει τὴν τῶν θεῶν γλῶτταν εὖ μαθεῖν.
  10. οἱ καλοὶ καὶ ἀγαθοὶ πολλάκις ἠθέλησαν/ἤθελον ταύτην τὴν νέαν παιδεύεσθαι, ἡ δὲ νοῦν ἀγαθὸν οὐκ ἔχει.
  11. φίλοι τούτοις νεανίαις καὶ ἡ θάλαττα καὶ οἱ πλοῖ.
  12. παλαιά, ὦ νεανίαι, μόνα τὰ μὴ καινά.
  13. ἡ ἀνδρεία τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ τοῦ ποιητοῦ ἐπαίδευε καὶ τοὺς ἐν ἀγορᾷ δούλους.
  14. κακὸς (ἦν) ὁ τοῦ ἀγγέλου πλοῦς ὁ μόνος.
  15. τῷ μὴ ἀπὸ τοῦ ποιητοῦ φυγεῖν, οὗτος ὁ ἵππος τὴν ἀδρείαν πάλαι ἔμαθεν.
  16. τῷ ἐν τῷ τῶν θεῶν νεῷ βουλεύεσθαι κἀκεῖναι τὴν ἀρετὴν ἔμαθεν, καὶ τὴν ἐλευθερίαν νῦν ἔχουσιν.
  17. τοῖς μὴ ἐλευθεροῖς καὶ ἡ ἕως οὐ καλή.
  18. φίλα μόνοις αἰσχροῖς τὰ κακά.
  19. ἡ μέση ὁδὸς ἡ μετὰ τὸν νεὼν φέρει εἰς τὴν οἰκίαν τὴν τῶν τοῦ δεσπότου φίλοι.
  20. ὦ φίλε, ἡ τοῦ ἐλευθεροῦ ἀδελφὴ ἔμελλεν τοῦτο ἐδεῖσθαι.
  21. οὐ μόνοις τοῖς ἐλευθεροῖς τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ τὸ καλὸν φίλα.
  22. οἱ δοῦλοι, ὦ νεανία, οὐδέποτε πολῖται.
  23. μόνος ὁ αἰσχρὸς πολίτης τὴν ἀδελφὴν οὐδέποτε ἐπαιδεύσατο.
  24. οἱ νεανίαι οἱ ταῖς καλαῖς φίλοι πολλάκις οὐ βούλονται τὴν ἀρετὴν μαθεῖν τῷ εὖ παιδεύεσθαι.
  25. ὁ αἰσχρὸς καὶ νέος δοῦλος τὸ τούτου τοῦ ποιητοῦ βιβλίον εἰς τὴν θάλατταν ἔβαλεν.
  26. ὁ μετὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου πολίτης οὐδέποτε ἔμαθεν τὴν τῆς ἐλευθερᾶς γλῶτταν.
  27. ὦ φίλε, οὐκ ἀεὶ καλὴ ἡ εἰρήνη.
  28. ἀεὶ αἰσχρὸν τὸ πολίτην βαλεῖν λίθους.
  29. αὖθις οἱ φίλοι ἐμέλησεν τοῦτο ἤνεγκαν εἰς μέσον τὸ πεδίον.
  30. ὁ τοῦ πολίτου ἵππος πάλιν ἔφυγεν ἀπὸ τοῦ νεώ.
  31. οὐ πολίτης ὁ ἄγγελος οὗτος.
  32. αἱ μὴ αἰσχραὶ πολλάκις θύουσιν.
  33. αἰσχρὸν, ὦ ἀγαθὲ ἄνθρωπε, τὸ μηδέποτε μαθεῖν τὴν ἀρετήν.
  34. φίλη καὶ τούτοις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἡ νέα τῆς πολιτείας ἐλευθερία.
  35. ἡ μόνη τοῦ νέου ποιητοῦ ἀδελφὴ αὖθις πρὸς τούτον τὸν νεὼν ἥκει.
  36. οἱ ποιηταὶ νῦν μέλλουσι τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς τῶν πολιτῶν παιδεύσειν
  37. ἡ εἰρήνη οὐκ ἔστιν μοῖρα τῶν κακῶν πολιτῶν.
  38. ὁ ἐν ἀγορᾷ νεανίας νῦν θεός ἐστιν.
  39. οὐκ αἰσχρὸν τὸ τοὺς δούλους βαλεῖν λίθους.
  40. ὁ καλὸς πολίτης ἐμάνθανε τῷ βιβλία ἐν ἀγορᾷ πάλαι εὐρεῖν.
  41. νῦν ἀγαθὴ καὶ ἡ τῆς τοῦ ἀγγέλου γῆς πολιτεία.
  42. τὸ νεανίας ἐν τῷ νεῲ παιδεύειν, ὦ φίλε, πάντοτε ἀγαθόν.
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Jason A. Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: [Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

Post by Jason Hare » August 26th, 2019, 8:41 pm

I have to say, that felt like the longest 42 sentences in my life. Doing these exercises is slightly exhausting.
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EricSowell
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Re: [Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

Post by EricSowell » August 31st, 2019, 9:14 pm

I'm running late on this but will get it done in the next two or three days. Working through the first 21 sentences and then comparing them to yours today took me about an hour and fourty five minutes. So yeah. It's tiring. Here's my comments on 11-21. I think I made an average of about one mistake a sentence, so having yours to correct against was useful. More tomorrow.

11.
JH: φίλοι τούτοις νεανίαις καὶ ἡ θάλαττα καὶ οἱ πλοῖ.
ES: καὶ ἡ θαλάττη καὶ οἱ πλοῖ τούτοις τοῖς νεανίαις φίλοι.
articular τοῖς νεανίαις is required because of rule C.4

12.
JH: παλαιά, ὦ νεανίαι, μόνα τὰ μὴ καινά.
ES: μόνα τὰ μὴ νέα, ὦ νεανίας, παλαιά.
νεανίας should be singular

13.
JH: ἡ ἀνδρεία τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ τοῦ ποιητοῦ ἐπαίδευε καὶ τοὺς ἐν ἀγορᾷ δούλους.
ES: ἡ τῶν τοῦ ποιητοῦ ἀδελφῶν ἀνδρεία καὶ τοὺς ἐν ἀγορᾷ δούλους ἐπαίδευε.
ἀδελφός should be plural.

14
JH: κακὸς (ἦν) ὁ τοῦ ἀγγέλου πλοῦς ὁ μόνος.
ES: ὁ μόνος τοῦ ἀγγέλου πλοῦς κακός.

15.
JH: τῷ μὴ ἀπὸ τοῦ ποιητοῦ φυγεῖν, οὗτος ὁ ἵππος τὴν ἀδρείαν πάλαι ἔμαθεν.
ES: τῷ ἀπὸ ποιητοῦ μὴ φεύγειν/φύγειν, οὗτος ὁ νέος ἵππος τὴν ἀνδρείαν πάλαι ἔμαθεν.
ποιητοῦ should probably be anarthrous. You left out "young". Why φυγεῖν and not φύγειν in the second aorist?

16.
JH: τῷ ἐν τῷ τῶν θεῶν νεῷ βουλεύεσθαι κἀκεῖναι τὴν ἀρετὴν ἔμαθεν, καὶ τὴν ἐλευθερίαν νῦν ἔχουσιν.
ES: τῷ ἐν τῷ τῶν θεῶν νεῷ βουλεύεσθαι καὶ αὗται τὴν ἀρετὴν ἔμαθον, καὶ τὴν ἐλευθερίαν νῦν ἔχουσιν.
Would you get crasis with καὶ αὗται? Anyway, it should probably be οὗτος and not ἐκείνος. It should also be plural ἔμαθον.

17.
JH: τοῖς μὴ ἐλευθεροῖς καὶ ἡ ἕως οὐ καλή.
ES: οὐ καλὴ καὶ ἕως τοῖς μὴ ἐλευθέροις.
ἐλευθεροῖς should be accented on the penult. I'm not sure if ἕως should be articular or not.

18.
JH: φίλα μόνοις αἰσχροῖς τὰ κακά.
ES: φίλα τὰ κακὰ μόνοις τοῖς αἰσχροῖς.
Not sure if it is necessary, but I gave αἰσχροῖς and article make the predicate position clear. At least I think that's supposed to be in predicate position.

19.
JH: ἡ μέση ὁδὸς ἡ μετὰ τὸν νεὼν φέρει εἰς τὴν οἰκίαν τὴν τῶν τοῦ δεσπότου φίλοι.
ES: ἡ μέση ὁδὸς ἡ μετὰ τὸν νεὼν τῷ τῶν τοῦ δεσπότου φίλων οἴκῳ καὶ φέρει.
φίλοι should be genitive. Did you miss the "also"?

20.
JH: ὦ φίλε, ἡ τοῦ ἐλευθεροῦ ἀδελφὴ ἔμελλεν τοῦτο ἐδεῖσθαι.
ES: ὦ φίλε, ἡ τοῦ ἐλευθέρου ἀδελφὴ τοῦτο ἐδεῖσθαι ἔμελλεν/ἐμέλλησεν.
Accent of ἐλευθεροῦ should be on the penult.

21.
JH: οὐ μόνοις τοῖς ἐλευθεροῖς τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ τὸ καλὸν φίλα.
ES: φίλα τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ τὸ καλὸν οὐ μόνοις τοῖς ἐλευθέροις.
ἐλευθεροῖς should be accented on the penult.
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EricSowell
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Re: [Dickey] Ch 2: Sentences

Post by EricSowell » September 1st, 2019, 2:36 pm

This part added another hour and twenty minutes to the exercise.


22. Slaves, O young man, are never citizens.
JH: οἱ δοῦλοι, ὦ νεανία, οὐδέποτε πολῖται.
ES: οἱ δοῦλοι, ὦ νεανίας, οὐδέποτε πολίται.
I assume νεανία is a vocative form?

23. Only the shameful citizen never had his sister educated.
The same on this one.

24. Young men who are dear to beautiful women often do not wish to learn excellence by being well educated.
JH: οἱ νεανίαι οἱ ταῖς καλαῖς φίλοι πολλάκις οὐ βούλονται τὴν ἀρετὴν μαθεῖν τῷ εὖ παιδεύεσθαι.
ES: οἱ νεανίαι οἱ ταῖς καλαῖς φίλοι τὴν ἀρετὴν μανθάνειν οὐ πολλάκις ἐθέλουσι τῷ εὖ παιδεύεσθαι.
No comments

25. The shameful young slave threw that poet's book into the sea again.
JH: ὁ αἰσχρὸς καὶ νέος δοῦλος τὸ τούτου τοῦ ποιητοῦ βιβλίον εἰς τὴν θάλατταν ἔβαλεν.
ES: ὁ αἰσχρὸς δοῦλος ὁ νέος τὸ τούτου τοῦ ποιητοῦ βιβλίον εἰς τὴν θάλατταν πάλιν ἔβαλεν.
You are missing "again".

26. The citizen with the messenger never learned the free woman's language.
JH: ὁ μετὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου πολίτης οὐδέποτε ἔμαθεν τὴν τῆς ἐλευθερᾶς γλῶτταν.
ES: ὁ μετὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου πολίτης τὴν τῆς ἐλεύθερας γλῶτταν οὐδέποτε ἔμαθεν.
If the -ας on ἐλεύθερας is long, then the accent needs to be shifted to the penult.

27. O friend, peace is always good.
JH: ὦ φίλε, οὐκ ἀεὶ καλὴ ἡ εἰρήνη.
ES: ὦ φίλε, ἡ εἰρήνη ἀεὶ ἀγαθή.
You don't need οὐκ.

28. A citizen's throwing stones is always shameful.
JH: ἀεὶ αἰσχρὸν τὸ πολίτην βαλεῖν λίθους.
ES: ἀεὶ αἰσχρὸν τὸ ὑπὸ πολίτου λίθους βάλλειν.
Didn't think of doing this with a subject. Yours follows the instructions better, but I think mine technically works...

29. The friends again delayed carrying that into the middle of the land.
JH: αὖθις οἱ φίλοι ἐμέλησεν τοῦτο ἤνεγκαν εἰς μέσον τὸ πεδίον.
ES: οἱ φίλοι τοῦτο εἰς μέσαν τὴν γὴν πάλιν ἐνέγκειν ἀμέλλησαν.
ἐμέλησεν is from μέλει, not μέλλω.

30. The citizen's horse again fled from the new temple.
JH: ὁ τοῦ πολίτου ἵππος πάλιν ἔφυγεν ἀπὸ τοῦ νεώ.
ES: ὁ τοῦ πολίτου ἵππος ἀπὸ τοῦ νέου νεὼ αὖθις ἔφυγεν.
You left out "new".

31. This messenger is not a citizen.
JH: οὐ πολίτης ὁ ἄγγελος οὗτος.
ES: οὗτος ὁ ἄγγελος οὐ πολίτης.
Equivalent

32. Women who are not shameful wish to sacrifice often.
JH: αἱ μὴ αἰσχραὶ πολλάκις θύουσιν.
ES: αἱ μὴ αἰσχραὶ πολλάκις θύσαι βούλονται.
You are missing the wishing part of this.

33. Never learning excellence, Oh good man, is shameful.
JH: αἰσχρὸν, ὦ ἀγαθὲ ἄνθρωπε, τὸ μηδέποτε μαθεῖν τὴν ἀρετήν.
ES: τὸ μηδέποτε μανθάνειν τὴν ἀρετήν, ὦ ἀγαθέ, αἰσχρόν.
There's a couple graves that could be shifted to accute, and I think ἄνθρωπε is unnecessary. And I know we are generally supposed to put predicate adjectives before, but perhaps the intervening ὦ ἀγαθέ might allow us to put the αἰσχρόν after the infinitive construction. Any thoughts?

34. The government's new freedom is dear to these men too.
JH: φίλη καὶ τούτοις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἡ νέα τῆς πολιτείας ἐλευθερία
ES: ἡ τῆς πολιτείας ἐλευθερία ἡ νέα καὶ τούτοις φίλη.
I don't think τοῖς ἀνθρώποις are necessary.

35. The young poet's only sister has come to this temple again.
JH: ἡ μόνη τοῦ νέου ποιητοῦ ἀδελφὴ αὖθις πρὸς τούτον τὸν νεὼν ἥκει.
ES: ἡ μόνη τοῦ νέου ποιητοῦ ἀδελφὴ εἰς τοῦτον τὸν νεὼν πάλιν ἥκει.

36. These poets are now about to educate the good men among the citizens.
JH: οἱ ποιηταὶ νῦν μέλλουσι τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς τῶν πολιτῶν παιδεύσειν.
ES: οὗτοι οἱ ποιηταὶ τοὺς ἐν μέσοις τοῖς πολίτοις ἀγαθοὺς νῦν παιδεύειν μέλλουσιν.
Missing a οὗτοι. I'm not sure if my ἐν μέσοις τοῖς πολίτοις is the best way of doing this.

37. Peace is not the allotted portion of the bad citizens.
JH: ἡ εἰρήνη οὐκ ἔστιν μοῖρα τῶν κακῶν πολιτῶν.
ES: ἡ εἰρήνη οὐ ἡ τῶν κακῶν πολιτῶν μοῖρα.
I think both of these are valid.

38. The young man in the marketplace now is a god.
JH: ὁ ἐν ἀγορᾷ νεανίας νῦν θεός ἐστιν.
ES: ὁ νῦν ἐν ἀγορά νεανίας θεός.
I think both of these are valid, but with different a different emphasis.

39. It is not shameful for slaves to throw stones.
JH: οὐκ αἰσχρὸν τὸ τοὺς δούλους βαλεῖν λίθους.
ES: οὐκ αἰσχρὸν τὸ τοὺς δούλους λίθους βαλεῖν.
I think these both work.

40. The good citizen learned by finding books in the marketplace long ago.
JH: ὁ καλὸς πολίτης ἐμάνθανε τῷ βιβλία ἐν ἀγορᾷ πάλαι εὐρεῖν.
ES: τῷ βιβλία ἐν ἀγορᾷ πάλαι εὑρεῖν ὁ ἀγαθὸς πολίτης ἔμαθεν.
Equivalent.

41. The government of the messenger's land is good now too.
JH: νῦν ἀγαθὴ καὶ ἡ τῆς τοῦ ἀγγέλου γῆς πολιτεία.
ES: ἡ τῆς τοῦ ἀγγέλου γῆς πολιτεία καὶ νῦν ἀγαθή.
Equivalent.

42. Educating young men in a temple, of friend, is always good.
JH: τὸ νεανίας ἐν τῷ νεῲ παιδεύειν, ὦ φίλε, πάντοτε ἀγαθόν.
ES: τὸ νεανίας ἐν τῷ νεῲ παιδεύειν, ὦ φίλε, ἀεὶ ἀγαθόν.
Equivalent.
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