1 Cor 14:8

1 Cor 14:8

Postby Ronaldo Ghenov » December 6th, 2012, 1:44 pm

I'm pondering 1 Corinthians 14:8's καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν.
I'm wondering if
καὶ = continuative + γὰρ = clarification + ἐὰν = introducing another protasis to be reflected upon
is unnecessarily isolating each conjunction and overlooking the idiomatic?
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Re: 1 Cor 14:8

Postby Louis L Sorenson » December 7th, 2012, 11:27 pm

Ronaldo,

Can you expand what you are saying. It is very terse and hard to really get for what you are really looking.
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Re: 1 Cor 14:8

Postby Iver Larsen » December 8th, 2012, 11:50 am

Ronaldo Ghenov wrote:I'm pondering 1 Corinthians 14:8's καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν.
I'm wondering if
καὶ = continuative + γὰρ = clarification + ἐὰν = introducing another protasis to be reflected upon
is unnecessarily isolating each conjunction and overlooking the idiomatic?


No, I think it is helpful to look at each of these individually. ἐὰν is a conjunction that links the conditional clause it introduces to the following main clause. I would not call γὰρ a conjunction, but a discourse particle. It functions above the sentence level. It means that the sentence it is part of gives further explanation to or support for the previous sentence or a word or phrase in the previous sentence. καὶ is not here a coordinating conjunction nor is it continuative. It gives emphasis to the following word or statement (but jumps over the γὰρ as if it had not been there). It is an adverb that emphasizes what follows the γὰρ and may be translated as "indeed, surely, also, even" depending on context. Here I would probably use indeed or surely. καὶ is always an intensifying adverb when it precedes γὰρ.
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Re: 1 Cor 14:8

Postby Stirling Bartholomew » December 8th, 2012, 1:53 pm

Iver Larsen wrote:
Ronaldo Ghenov wrote:I'm pondering 1 Corinthians 14:8's καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν.
I'm wondering if
καὶ = continuative + γὰρ = clarification + ἐὰν = introducing another protasis to be reflected upon
is unnecessarily isolating each conjunction and overlooking the idiomatic?


No, I think it is helpful to look at each of these individually. ἐὰν is a conjunction that links the conditional clause it introduces to the following main clause. I would not call γὰρ a conjunction, but a discourse particle. It functions above the sentence level. It means that the sentence it is part of gives further explanation to or support for the previous sentence or a word or phrase in the previous sentence. καὶ is not here a coordinating conjunction nor is it continuative. It gives emphasis to the following word or statement (but jumps over the γὰρ as if it had not been there). It is an adverb that emphasizes what follows the γὰρ and may be translated as "indeed, surely, also, even" depending on context. Here I would probably use indeed or surely. καὶ is always an intensifying adverb when it precedes γὰρ.


Yes to Iver.

Another way of saying this is to describe each word in terms of a constraint that it places on how we read the clause in relationship to its immediate context (adapted from Levinsohn 2000:69). γὰρ introduces supportive (backgrounded) material in relationship to what precedes. ἐὰν introduces a conditional usually followed by an apodosis. καὶ is a little more difficult. It might be understood as placing a concessive/adversative constraint on the conditional clause introduced by ἐὰν; even if ... Smyth 2369f. The terminology concessive/adversative could probably be improved on.
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Re: 1 Cor 14:8

Postby Ronaldo Ghenov » December 8th, 2012, 2:14 pm

Gentlemen, Thank you so much for your insight!
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Re: 1 Cor 14:8

Postby Stirling Bartholomew » December 8th, 2012, 2:34 pm

Stirling Bartholomew wrote:
Iver Larsen wrote:
Ronaldo Ghenov wrote:I'm pondering 1 Corinthians 14:8's καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν.
I'm wondering if
καὶ = continuative + γὰρ = clarification + ἐὰν = introducing another protasis to be reflected upon
is unnecessarily isolating each conjunction and overlooking the idiomatic?


καὶ is a little more difficult. It might be understood as placing a concessive/adversative constraint on the conditional clause introduced by ἐὰν; even if ... Smyth 2369f. The terminology concessive/adversative could probably be improved on.


In the passage under consideration 1 Cor 14:8 I don't think καὶ ... ἐὰν is concessive.

1Cor. 14:8 καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν ἄδηλον σάλπιγξ φωνὴν δῷ, τίς παρασκευάσεται εἰς πόλεμον;

It looks as if καὶ here does not form a constituent with ἐὰν. Whether καὶ is adverbial or a conjunction ... the tagged text I use agrees with Iver, calling it an adverb. If γὰρ is not a conjunction and καὶ is an adverb then how is the following clause joined to what precedes? Ultimately this is nothing more than a question about meta-language. Not very important.
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