KOINE PHRASEBOOK

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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Paul-Nitz » January 3rd, 2013, 9:49 am

Here's the scenario... You're in a classroom and you say something wrong. You want to correct yourself. So, you say....

? συγγνώμην ἔχε ?
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby solomon_powell » January 3rd, 2013, 6:55 pm

Secondly, I really don't know where this Greek is from. If I get a hit from Euthyphro, that tells me naught all (without spending more time than I have researching who this Greek dude is). Is this 7th Century BC Greek or 1st Century? Is there a list of Koine Greek collections so that I could narrow my search and only see Koine hits?


I am encouraged by the desire for accuracy to the Koine period that this frustration represents. Be encouraged!

I will offer 3 things:


1) A master list for ancient texts, in alphabetical order, which aims to provide 2 main pieces of information about each text: 1) date of original composition. 2) language of original composition.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-eeaU ... G5ZTWFIZXM




Pared down from this master list...

2) A select list of Koine Period texts that were written originally in Koine, and apparently are extant in Koine in significant portions

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-eeaU ... jNFSnBOWGM



I then made a list of which of these select texts were cited most often by BDAG in his lexicon. I will not send you that, out of a desire to not overload you. But based on that and other factors, I compiled a list of "favorites" links to the some of the more helpful texts for finding citations. This was for use in internet explorer's browser.


3) A folder of shortcuts (URLs) to the koine-original, koine era texts that I've found most helpful for finding citations of usage, in order of their helpfulness, and nearly all including a side-by-side shortcut to a corresponding English translation

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B-eea ... JlNHc/edit


In actual usage, so as not to overload you, perhaps I could offer this statement on my actual usage of the above resources.

I use #1, the master list, when I have found a good citation on Perseus and want to check if it is usable. So I just open up this list and do a CONTROL + "F" search for the author.
I don't often use #2. Though I found it helpful in making #3.
And I use #3, the shortcuts, when I have a particular reference that I want to look up. For instance, maybe I'm looking up a verb in BDAG's lexicon and it cites 3 Macc 2:21. With a click of the button (on the relevent shortcuts), I can have both the Greek and an English translation in front of me in seconds. But, as I said, mostly I use that when I have particular references I want to look up. If found desireable, you could set up the same list of "favorites" (Internet Explorer) or "bookmarks" (Mozilla) using these URLs.


All the best in your efforts!
Solomon-
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Paul-Nitz » January 3rd, 2013, 7:15 pm

Solomon, I'm stunned. Thanks very much. Now I just need to get good enough in Greek that I can scan through these texts like a morning newspaper. Paul
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Paul-Nitz » January 9th, 2013, 9:54 am

Greeting: Χαιρε.
Answer: Χαίρω.

Is that right? Or is Liddell listing something really rare. I have no idea how to search Perseus for something like this.

κῆρυξ Ἀχαιῶν, χαῖρε. . Answ. χαίρω I accept the greeting, Aesch
Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon (646). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc..
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Paul-Nitz » January 12th, 2013, 9:33 am

Do these pass the "smell" test?

What does ~~ mean?
τί ἐστιν τὸ ρῆμα ~~ ;

The word ~~ means ~~ ?
τὸ ρῆμα ἐστι ~~ .

How do they say ~~ in Greek.
Πῶς λέγουσι ~~ Ἐλληνιστί.

They say ~~ in Greek.
λέγουσι ~~ Ἐλληνιστί.

…which translated is…
…ὅ ἐστι ἐρμηνευόμενον…

How do they translate the word ~~ ?
πῶς ἐρμηνεύονται τὸ ρῆμα ~~ .

They translate the word (with the word) ~~.
ἐρμηνεύονται τὸ ρῆμα ~~ .

How do we translate the word ~~ into Greek?
πῶς ἐρμηνευόμεθα τό ρῆμα ~~;

Tell us about yourself.
εἴπε ἡμᾶς τὰ περι σου. Eph 6:22
Paul D. Nitz - Lilongwe Malawi
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Ken M. Penner » January 12th, 2013, 12:53 pm

mean: σημαίνει.
E.g., τὸ δὲ Ἀμὴν τῇ Ἑβραΐδι φωνῇ τὸ Γένοιτο σημαίνει (Just., A I, 65, 4).
Tell us: εἴπε ἡμῖν
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby David Lim » January 13th, 2013, 4:04 am

Paul-Nitz wrote:Tell us about yourself.
εἴπε ἡμᾶς τὰ περι σου. Eph 6:22

As Ken said, it should be "ειπε ημιν" (Mark 13:4) or "ειπε προς ημας" (LXX Jer 19:14), but why "τα περι σου"? Shouldn't it be "περι σεαυτου" (John 1:22)?

Paul-Nitz wrote:How do they say ~~ in Greek.
Πῶς λέγουσι ~~ Ἐλληνιστί.

Would "πως λεγεται ..." (John 19:17) be better? And likewise in your other phrases where you use the active plural?
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Louis L Sorenson » January 13th, 2013, 4:11 am

A search of TLG-e found 81x of πῶς λέγουσιν and 117x of πῶς λέγεται. So both phrases are used in abundance.
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby David Lim » January 13th, 2013, 4:16 am

Louis L Sorenson wrote:A search of TLG-e found 81x of πῶς λέγουσιν and 117x of πῶς λέγεται. So both phrases are used in abundance.

I felt "πως λεγουσιν" was used more usually when referring to "how is it that they say ..." rather than when we want to say "how do we say ...". Do the search results on TLG have the meaning Paul wanted?
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Re: KOINE PHRASEBOOK

Postby Paul-Nitz » January 13th, 2013, 9:11 am

David Lim wrote: but why "τα περι σου"? Shouldn't it be "περι σεαυτου" (John 1:22)?

I took εἴπε ἡμᾶς τὰ περι σου from Eph 6:22, but περι σεαυτοῦ is simpler.

Ken M. Penner wrote:mean: σημαίνει.

That's what other's like Lightman are using, too. It's what they say in Modern Greek, as well. I could find only one occurence of it so I wondered how common it was, but that's maybe my ignorance of how to search. I did find many instances of defining things simply with εστιν.

Louis L Sorenson wrote:A search of TLG-e found 81x of πῶς λέγουσιν and 117x of πῶς λέγεται. So both phrases are used in abundance.

If it's easy to describe, tell me how to do that sort of a search. For example, how would you search for "περι σεαυτου" ?

Thanks to all, I've updated the phrasebook, temporarily still at
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_5w2D ... zlJSmN6T1k
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