[B-Greek] Time Reference in Jn 6:16-21, Matt. 14:22-27, Mk 6:45-62

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 3 21:41:05 EDT 2008


But that is precisely not the case.  It nowhere states that they were fishing; it doesn't matter which of the parallels you choose.  Both Matthew and Luke follow Mark's lead and proceed from the feeding of the 5,000 in a deserted place to the disciples departure sans Jesus to the appearance of Jesus on the water with nary a mention of fishing.  The only fish were in the menu during the feeding.

 george
gfsomsel


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Nikolaos Adamou <nikolaos.adamou at hotmail.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>; greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 9:10:31 PM
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] Time Reference in Jn 6:16-21, Matt. 14:22-27, Mk 6:45-62

The practical aspect of a fisherman's life in a traditional way is clear, fishing is done from midnight to about four o'clock.  Fish disappears to deeper waters as light comes up.  Since they were fishing, it has to be night. Because it is so obvious to the writers of the Gospels, did not need any further time specification.



________________________________
Nikolaos Adamou, Ph.D.                         ἀναπλ. καθ. Νικόλαος 'Αδάμου
Associate Professor of Business Management             Διοίκηση  Ἐπιχειρήσεων
BMCC / CUNY                                                                      Πανεπιστήμιο Πόλεως Νέας Ὑόρκης, Κολλέγιο Μανχάτταν



> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:20:04 -0700
> From: gfsomsel at yahoo.com
> To: kline_dekooning at earthlink.net; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Time Reference in Jn 6:16-21, Matt. 14:22-27, Mk 6:45-62
> 
> I see no way to determine that.  It doesn't say how long it took them to row 3 - 4 miles in Jn though the Mt // indicates that it would be longer than usual since they had an opposing wind.  Mk seems to indicate that the night had largely passed since it was the fourth quarter.  Would the darkness have begun to disperse?  That is somewhat difficult to say as well.  It was apparently between 3 and 6 am.  The degree of light would depend upon the season.
> 
>  george
> gfsomsel
> 
> 
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
> To: greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 4:08:28 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Time Reference in Jn 6:16-21, Matt. 14:22-27, Mk 6:45-62
> 
> The question: Was it still dark when Jesus came to disciples?
> 
> Based on the LANGUAGE of Jn 6:16-21, Matt. 14:22-27, Mk 6:45-62 can we  
> determine if Jesus arrived near the boat before the predawn light?
> 
> MT 6:25 TETARTHi DE FULAKHi THS NUKTOS HLQEN PROS AUTOUS PERIPATWN EPI  
> THN QALASSAN.  26 hOI DE MAQHTAI IDONTES AUTON EPI THS QALASSHS  
> PERIPATOUNTA ETARACQHSAN LEGONTES hOTI FANTASMA ESTIN, KAI APO TOU  
> FOBOU EKRAXAN.
> 
> MARK 6:45 KAI EUQUS HNAGKASEN TOUS MAQHTAS AUTOU EMBHNAI EIS TO PLOION  
> KAI PROAGEIN EIS TO PERAN PROS BHQSAIDAN, hEWS AUTOS APOLUEI TON  
> OCLON.  46 KAI APOTAXAMENOS AUTOIS APHLQEN EIS TO OROS PROSEUXASQAI.  
> 47 KAI OYIAS GENOMENHS HN TO PLOION EN MESWi THS QALASSHS, KAI AUTOS  
> MONOS EPI THS GHS.  48 KAI IDWN AUTOUS BASANIZOMENOUS EN TWi ELAUNEIN,  
> HN GAR hO ANEMOS ENANTIOS AUTOIS, PERI TETARTHN FULAKHN THS NUKTOS  
> ERCETAI PROS AUTOUS PERIPATWN EPI THS QALASSHS KAI HQELEN PARELQEIN  
> AUTOUS.  49 hOI DE IDONTES AUTON EPI THS QALASSHS PERIPATOUNTA EDOXAN  
> hOTI FANTASMA ESTIN, KAI ANEKRAXAN:  50 PANTES GAR AUTON EIDON KAI  
> ETARACQHSAN.
> 
> JOHN 6:16 hWS DE OYIA EGENETO KATEBHSAN hOI MAQHTAI AUTOU EPI THN  
> QALASSAN  17 KAI EMBANTES EIS PLOION HRCONTO PERAN THS QALASSHS EIS  
> KAFARNAOUM. KAI SKOTIA HDH EGEGONEI KAI OUPW ELHLUQEI PROS AUTOUS hO  
> IHSOUS,  18 hH TE QALASSA ANEMOU MEGALOU PNEONTOS DIEGEIRETO.  19  
> ELHLAKOTES OUN hWS STADIOUS EIKOSI PENTE H TRIAKONTA QEWROUSIN TON  
> IHSOUN PERIPATOUNTA EPI THS QALASSHS KAI EGGUS TOU PLOIOU GINOMENON,  
> KAI EFOBHQHSAN.
> 
> The time references in the different accounts are not really very  
> precise. Is it possible based on the LANGUAGE to determine if it was  
> still dark when Jesus was seen approaching the boat?
> 
> 
> Elizabeth Kline
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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