[b-greek] Re: 2 Cor 12:7

From: Steven Lo Vullo (doulos@merr.com)
Date: Sun Dec 16 2001 - 16:45:42 EST


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On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 01:58 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:

>>> FEIDOMAI DE MH TIS EIS EME LOGISHTAI hUPER hO BLEPEI ME H AKOUEI EX
>>> EMOU
>>> KAI THi hUPERBOLHi TWN APOKALUYEWN (DIO) hINA MH hUPERAIRWMAI EDOQH
>>> MOI
>>> SKOLOY THi SARKI
>>>
>>> What is the function of the dative THi hUPERBOLHi TWN APOKALUYEWN?
>>> Does the dative phrase belong to the previous sentence or the
>>> following?
>
> Your last sentence begs for a response.
> As far as English (and Danish) Bible translations go, the traditional
> view
> is to take the dative phrase with the purpose clause or at least the
> following sentence rather than the previous one. I quoted the KJV as a
> representative of the traditional view, but can add many more like RSV,
> NIV,
> NCV, TEV, REB, NASB, JBPhillips, etc. It is only a few recent
> translations
> that have left the tradition and tried to construe it with the preceding
> sentence. It may be that the KJV was using a text without the DIO.

Both Stephanus (1550 edition) and the Majority Text (Robinson) lack DIO.
I think the lack of DIO is reflected in the KJV text.

> It is hard for me to see which is most "far-out" since both are awkward.
> But if we take it with the preceding one, how would you explain the
> strange
> KAI and the unmotivated dative? The dative is not the normal way of
> adding a
> reason and the KAI does not connect with the previous sentence. If I
> translate the first part as "I avoid (boasting) so that no one should
> credit
> to me beyond that which they see me (doing) or hear from me" how can I
> get
> that to fit with "and by the extraordinary revelations"? I just cannot
> connect it with LOGISHTAI and i don't see what else to connect it with.
> I am not looking for a final answer, Carl, and I know you won't offer
> one. I
> am just trying to understand how you can possibly connect it with the
> preceding sentence grammatically. I have read the NET, NLT and the few
> others who try to translate KAI with "even", but their translations
> just do
> not make sense to me.

This may just be me, but if we regard DIO as inauthentic, I personally
don't think the syntax is intolerably awkward. If we take the dative as
instrumental, in a causal sense, it makes sense to precede the purpose
clause with a causal clause. The result is something like "And because
of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, in order that I might
not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me." We would then
have the cause, the purpose, and the action answering to the cause and
purpose. Even if DIO is authentic, it is not hard to see how, in the
course of the dictation or composition of a letter, the thoughts run
ahead, and an instrumental dative indicating cause is left "hanging" at
the beginning of a sentence. Remember, the NT writers did not have word
processors that facilitated instant changes to the text.

Also, if we take KAI THi hUPERBOLHi TWN APOKALUYEWN with what precedes,
it seems to fly in the face of the point Paul is making. He specifically
says he refrains from boasting about such things as revelations lest
anyone credit him with more than is seen or heard from him. If we add
KAI THi hUPERBOLHi TWN APOKALUYEWN, we have Paul saying that he doesn't
want people to credit him beyond what they see or hear from him AND with
respect to the surpassing greatness of the revelations! In other words,
Paul wants credit for what is seen and heard AND for revelations which
not only are not seen and heard by others, but which he also seems in
the context to NOT want to be an issue on which he is assessed. This not
only seems to be contradictory to the context as a whole, but
self-contradictory as a sentence. If not for KAI, we could make sense of
this. But the translations that construe this way seem to be forced to
ignore KAI. Note the following:

"But I will not go on in case anybody should rate me higher than he sees
and hears me to be, because of the exceptional greatness of the
revelations" (NJB).

"But I refrain, so that no one may think more of me than what he sees in
me or hears from me because of the abundance of the revelations" (NAB).

Those translations that don't ignore KAI seem to read into it more than
is warranted. For example, NLT apparently takes KAI as concessive and
paraphrases to an extraordinary degree in order to make this work.
=============

Steven Lo Vullo
Madison, WI


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