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Re: [SANET-MG] soybean rust a new dread



Hi Steve Ford,
It seems unlikely, to me, that either of the fungicides you mentioned
will be certified for organic application (baring USDA intervention).
However, the MSDS sheets for Bravo (chlorothalonil) agree that it is a
carcinogen , even though not a strong one. I think it is a good one to
avoid.
The MSDS sheets for Quadris (Azoxystrobin) suggests that it does not
cause cancer or birth defects and it seems that it is the safest of
those fungicides available. I think  Headline Pyraclostrobin  falls
between the two above in terms of its safety.
Birth defects  are often "yucked up" by chemical promoters but in the
past few years  the popular fungicide benomyl  was implicated in terms
of birth defects including  newborns with out eyes. Humans in the farm
areas using the chemical were born without eyes and the liability of the
chemical  use was established in court cases. Organic farmers have been
wise to avoid the chemical fix.
The use of the "safety" factors for "no" effects was popular years ago
then it was discredited by findings with radiation, arsenic and  poly
aromatic hydrocarbons  showing that there was linearity at low dose.
Meaning that  a large number of people could be effected by doses of
chemical that escaped detected in relatively small experiments. To avoid
mega mouse experiments  extrapolation was used assuming linearity at low
dose. Recently both benzene and mercury  were found to be dangerous to
humans at doses currently deemed safe. Nevertheless, the safety factor
(like creationism)  lingers on and seems to grow stronger  with the
bible belt victories in USA.
The prudent approach is , it seems to me,  to use the linear
extrapolation  or better yet avoid chemicals that cause cancer or birth
defects altogether or at the very least let the farm workers know what
they risk..
sincerely, joe


Steve Ford wrote:

Joe and Dale,

I have two questions regarding your ongoing debate.

First, you've been worried about Headline, but I hear talk of other
products available to fight the rust, Quadris and Bravo, in particular.
I haven't checked the labels on them.  Do you share the same concerns
regarding these products?

Second, I've been told by an individual in a large agrichemical company
who deals with EPA registrations that exposure rates to such products
are based on the rate at which there is a first observed effect.  Then,
automatically EPA reduces the allowed rate by a factor of ten.  If the
product will end up on food, it is reduced by another factor of ten, and
if the product is applied to food that would potentially be eaten by
children, it is reduced again by a factor of ten.  Therefore, if the
product is used on food that children will be exposed to, the allowable
rate is one-thousandth of that at which any adverse effect is observed.
Is that accurate?  Does it agree with your knowledge of the process?  If
so, what is the real relevance of statements suggesting that a product
is "linked to cancer"?

Steve Ford

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