Re: Late blight and soil

From: Steve Diver (steved@NCATARK.UARK.EDU)
Date: Thu Sep 12 2002 - 12:28:45 EDT


Bargyla Rateaver and David Menne -

Just go back and read my post and look at the information.
You are both wrong.

First I mention Weltzein, just following a resource link pointing
to the ATTRA publication on late blight. Weltzein's research
is featured in *that* very publication. Just go look at the
publication and see the table with research data and literature
citation toWeltzein.

Next, I mention Hoitink's research on induced resistance.

Bargyla lists material from Hoitink pre-dating 1993. That
is the era he was working on soil-borne pathogens. The
organisms Bargyla mentions are root pathogens. The
mechanism of biocontrol for soil-borne diseases is
competition, antagonism, and related modes of action.

The question on Sanet related to late blight which effects the
foliage, not the root system. Hoitink's group published
material in circa 1997-1998 that identified a systemic
response initiated at the root level -- probably through
compost + microbial interaction -- that translates to the
foliage and its ability to resist pathogenic infection.

That is a remarkable discovery. It supports the decades old
observations of organic farmers. It provides clues to further
approaches and methods in pest control *through* soil
management. It seemed like a noteworthy item in response
to a post seeking information on soil management as a
way to control above-ground pests, so I mentioned it.

Finally, to be blunt, David Menne suggests that I am an
academic living by the "publish or perish" mode who
has somehow taken material from Bargyla's book without
credit.

Bargyla repeatedly claims credit on Sanet for all
kinds of ideas and developments in organic agriculture.

I work at the ATTRA project which is managed by the
National Center for Appropriate Technology, a non-profit
organization. Of course I also work with people in academia
and land-grant universities and elsewhere and I enjoy working
with these folks and value their contributions.

But David's remarks about me working in academica were
not only wrong but also cast in a condescending and insulting
tone. Nor did he grasp that Bargyla was making another
claim for credit, without merit.

Primarily, I am a farm advisor working in sustainable
agriculture. Now and then I post resources to Sanet
and share good news about sustainable agriculture.

Steve Diver


David Menne wrote:

> Tsk, Tsk, Tsk - Maybe the academics in this forum who live by "publish or
> perish" could enlighten on the etiquette and protocols one should aim to
> observe.
>
> [In ignorance ?] I tend to quote back [only] to the original [would be for
> example Weltzien, Hoitink] too if their work as quoted is published/library
> accessible - albeit elsewise quoting the "printable/printed source" which
> would be The Primer, if these were personal communications.
>
> In any event this has given me the final nudge to get one of your final
> copies of the Organic Primer - and this morning I will make the US$200 [plus
> US$10 clearing fee] deposit into your bank account via the Swift number so
> kindly obtained by Gylver. I feel The Primer must probably be the
> fountainhead of much of the information I seek.
>
> Please reconsider working on the next edition - even if only section by
> section. You could sell many more sections at $25 each - dozens or hundreds
> more - than one whopping tome at $200. Even breaking up The Primer into
> [financially and intellectualy] digestible sections could probably multiply
> the fruits you earn from your labours immensely.
>
> Apart from the bulk of material provided free on my site, I sell some gold
> extraction monographs electronically [email Word documents - see
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~menne/aumet.htm ] with some success which
> avoids printing, stocks, etc - and allows continuous updates.
>
> David Menne : http://www.plantsfood.com
>
> "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we
> created them" - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bargyla Rateaver" <brateaver@EARTHLINK.NET>
> To: <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Late blight and soil
>
> > I thought the words of Diver sounded rather familiar, so I looked up in my
> 1993 Organic Method
> > Primer and found this:
> > pg 380
> > "Heinrich Weltzien, plant pathologist at University of Bonne, Germany,
> found that compost tea
> > prevented fungus diseases. It was made from compost derived from animal
> manure, cereal straw,
> > topsoil, aged compost, well decayed, aged 1 to 8 months. The compost was
> added to water, 1 part
> > compost to 5 or 8 parts water, then fermented 3 to 7 days, at 59 degrees
> F--68 degrees F (15
> > degrees C--19degrees C); the liquid was strained off and sprayed on crops.
> > "Even if the plants were rinsed after bring sprayed with the compost
> tea, before they were
> > infected, the diseases still showed lower incidence, suggesting a residual
> effect.
> > "Since sterilizing the tea reduced its effectiveness, it was likely the
> effect was due to
> > microorganisms, and it appeared to vary with the disease.
> > "It helped in all cases: downy mildew, powdery mildew and leaf blight
> of grapes (even better
> > than wettable sulfur or fungicides), late blight of potato/tomato, powdery
> mildew on barley,
> > sugar beet, cucumber, gray mold blight on bean, strawberry."
> >
> > and further:
> > " Harry Hoitink at Ohio State University suggested that homemade
> compost is more disease
> > suppressive than even the good tree bark composts he has devised over
> years; it suppresses a wide
> > variety of diseases and affects them longer. He found hardwood bark
> compost suppressed
> > Rhizoctonia, Pythium, Phytophthora and Fusarium. Pine bark compost was
> sure for Pythium and
> > Phytophthora, but only variable for Rhizoctonia and Fusarium. Dairy manure
> compost took care of
> > only Rhizoctoia and Pythium. Grame pomace fights Rhizoctonia, and slude
> combats Pythium."
> >
> > THANK YOU FOR QUOTINE ME.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Diver wrote:
> >
> > > Here is the ATTRA publication on late blight in potatoes,
> > > which provides some background ideas and resources:
> > >
> > > Alternative Controls for Late Blight in Potatoes
> > > http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/lateblight.html
> > > http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/lateblight.pdf
> > >
> > > Interestingly, compost teas were shown to be effective against
> > > Phytopthora infestans in German research by Weltzein.
> > >
> > > The relation between soils and diseases is complex.
> > >
> > > A lot is known about soil-borne pathogens and suppressive
> > > soils, organic amendments, soil microbiology, and biocontrol.
> > >
> > > Yet, late blight is an above-ground pathogen affecting
> > > foliage. Now you are getting into a situation that is
> > > akin to induced resistance or systemic aquired resistance.
> > >
> > > Harry Hoitink's research group at Ohio State comes to mind.
> > > They found that disease suppressive composts that come in
> > > contact with just one segment of the root system can, in fact,
> > > initiate a whole-plant systemic induced resistance to certain
> > > pathogens; i.e., a signal was turned on by composts and
> > > microbes interacting at the root interface, thus enabling
> > > above-ground foliage to withstand infection from pathogens.
> > >
> > > Another approach is to use commercial biocontrols,
> > > typically functioning as microbial antagonists.
> > >
> > > Here is the website providing a comprehensive summary
> > > of commercial biocontrol products available for plant
> > > pathogens. It is located at OhioState University, compiled
> > > in cooperation with USDA.
> > >
> > > Commercial Biocontrol Products Available for Use Against
> > > Plant Pathogens
> > > http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/apsbcc/productlist.htm
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Steve Diver
> > >
> > > "wdl@xminy.nl" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear list,
> > > >
> > > > I have a question on late blight. In our experimental garden we had
> several plots of
> > > > potatos this year. Besides the commercial farmer next to use also grew
> potatos.
> > > > At the end of the growing stage (at 98 days) late blight did hit the
> garden. In my own plot
> > > > all but 4 plants died, though the potatos were ok. So four plants
> survived! and we saw
> > > > in some plots there were more survivors. Other plots were totally
> destroyed and also
> > > > some damage even occurred in the commercial field where the potato's
> were sprayed.
> > > >
> > > > In consultation with a scientist of the BD research centre I learned
> that in gardenplots it
> > > > happens frequently that not all plants die in a late blight attack.
> This was news to me.
> > > > I now obviously wonder what is behind the survival of these
> potatoplants. Could there
> > > > be a relationship with the condition of the soil and survival? I
> obviously am going to use
> > > > the surviving plants potatos for planting next year but I would like
> to learn if anybody
> > > > knows about research into the possible relationship between
> soilquality and late blight
> > > > resistance.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > Wytze de Lange
> >

.



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