Re: [compost_tea] Digest Number 311

From: Leon Hussey <leon_at_simplici-tea.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:16:23 -0700

Hi Steve,
Thank you for the fire ant recipe!! I have had a problem with very
successful sugar ants (5 years). I will try the recipe this weekend and let
you know if we are successful. Thank you again my wife would be thrilled
and one less thing for me to think about. We have had commercial
applicators in Florida tells of their success with the fire ants leaving
their sites because of the fungal teas they apply.

Long Life-Honey in the Heart
Leon Hussey
Keep It Simple, Inc.
12323 180th Ave. NE
Redmond, WA. 98052-2212
1-866-558-0990
fax: 425-558-3695
kis_at_simplici-tea.com
www.simplici-tea.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 12:18 AM
Subject: [compost_tea] Digest Number 311



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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 6 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Re: compost
           From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
      2. Re: Compost for tea
           From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
      3. Re: organism feeders
           From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
      4. Re: arthropods
           From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
      5. RE: Compost for tea
           From: "Mike Bosko" <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com>
      6. Re: Re: Chlorinated water
           From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:46:48 -0500
   From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
Subject: Re: Re: compost

Hey Nehemiah,
You're making your own compost, just not in large enough quantities?

If no one is doing large-scale composting, you've got to wonder where all
those good ingredients are going!?! Surely, if you started looking around
you could identify sources of carbon and nitrogen materials. Many times
those that have the materials will be happy to GIVE them to you, even bring
them to you. Try tree trimming companies, produce warehouses, or feedlots.
Call your city offices and find out about their waste stream and see if they
have anything to offer. Compost tea is wonderful stuff, but it still doesn't
beat the real thing.
Steve Bridges

p.s. And I'm all for including the discussion of the making of compost on
this listserve. Compost would be the key word in compost tea!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "nehemiahlev" <nehemiah_at_twelvetribes.com>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: compost


> Hi Jeff,
> I have thought all along that discussing compost making on this list
> would be a great idea since we are looking for very specific
> qualities.I have gotten pretty sidetracted in making compost, rather
> than tea, since my goal is commercial landscape care. I want to be
> able to topdress with compost in addition to applying tea. I have not
> been able to find good compost in southern Florida and cannot imagine
> shipping the large quantities needed for landscape use. I also am not
> finding very good sources of information or discussions on making
> compost in relationship to the microbial diversity that is discussed
> on this list. I hope we keep talking about this. Could you refer me
> to a couple good websites on making compost.
> Ron
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff_at_g...>
> wrote:
> > Mike, et al. Fire away on compost. No one is stopping anyone.... at
> this point! :) I spent half an hour turning my pile today.
> >
> > I think the reluctance to discuss compost is because to some of us
> the definition of the term says it all. For CT we don't want to
> use "almost compost" or "has been" compost. Just compost. If people
> want to know how to make compost, there are a zillion websites with
> great instructions.
> >
> > Do you have specific questions?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:59:24 -0500
   From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
Subject: Re: Compost for tea

Hi Mike,
Home-made compost, in my opinion, would always be preferable to commercially
available compost if the home-made compost were a high quality compost. And
it certainly sounds like your making a wonderful compost! Go with it.....

I've wondered about using commercially made bagged or even bulk compost in
tea making. One would think that the bagged stuff would be less microbially
active because it is in a bag.....the compost has been denied air, for how
long, starving the organisms? And with commercially made bulk compost, it is
usually made with very few ingredients. For instance, here you can get
turkey litter compost, or cotton bur compost, or tree trimming compost, etc.
Wouldn't a compost made with fewer ingredients be less nutrionally and
microbially complete?

I would think that your compost, or any good homemade compost, would be
better because of the variety of materials that go into the pile and the
freshness of the compost when you use it.

Sounds like you need to get with Nehemiah and help him put a pile together!

Steve Bridges
Kimas Tejas Nursery
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mike Bosko
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:07 PM
  Subject: [compost_tea] Compost for tea


  Ok, here are some of the questions I've been brewing in terms of
home-stacked compost for tea. I just spent an hour outside turning my
pile - it seems so rich, crumbly, smells so earthy and chock full of earth
worms, I can't imagine that its not good for tea. But anyway, here goes the
questions. I'm curious what you think:



  Q:

  My piles are primarily composed of:



  Brown matter: Chaff timothy/alfalfa/grass mix hay (I grow myself - no
pesticides or chem. Fertilizers) + dry plant prunings + fall leaves + pine
needles (regardless what people tell me, they break down quickly, the worms
love them and I really think it helps my highly alkaline soils) + shredded
newspaper (no color ink)



  Green matter: Horse manure (low to no chems fed to my horses, worming is
done at a minimum and only as necessary (rare)) + grass clippings + kitchen
scraps + chicken manure (I only have 3 chickens so not much of that).



  Piles get roughly 3:1 brown to green materials

  I turn my piles about once every 1 to 3 weeks.

  Try to keep them moist, but wicking from the hay does tend to dry it out
on occasion.

  Also, at times there are mucky wet centers if not turned w/in 2 weeks.



  Without testing, are these materials okay for use in teas?





  Q:

  Worms -- sign of good compost for tea?

  My compost is always full of red earthworms, lots of them. After
unloading many of them to my garden, they seem to multiply to their high
level in no time. I just hate the thought of drowning the little buggers if
I were to be making tea out of it.



  Q:

  Mushrooms -- Sign of good compost for tea?

  In the shady recesses of my compost area, that I tend to neglect turning,
mushrooms are showing themselves. Would this imply good fungal growth?
Good compost? The bulk of my compost, that is turned often, doesn't tend to
get, or stay, wet enough for mushrooms to grow. But they do so in the shady
corners - and I live in an arid region of WA state.



  Q:

  Moist, Crumbly, Earthy Smell - Sign of good compost for tea?

  As mentioned before, my piles when turning, smell earthy and sweet. With
all the horse manure we go through, I must be adding enough brown goods
because the piles always smell earthy and crumble in my hands.



  Just some of the questions I've been pondering - I'm looking to make some
teas on my own, with my own self made brewer - but also am looking into the
option of purchasing one too. I'd just really like to use my own composts.



  Thanks!!



  Mike




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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:24:15 -0500
   From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
Subject: Re: organism feeders

To test for clopyralid in your compost,,,,,
Take a small container, fill with one half compost and one half potting soil
and plant a few bean seeds. If your bean seeds come up and show stunted
growth at the development of their first true leaves, or they die, then you
may have clopyralid in your compost.

To test for clopyralid in your hay,,,,,,
Fill a five gallon bucket with chopped hay and add water. Let it sit for a
day then mulch around some broadleaf weeds. Water it in for a few days. If
it kills the weeds, it will kill your other plants.

These tests also work with products containing 2-4-D, atrazine, or picloram.

Or you could, as we all should be doing with our produce
purchasing/consumption, know where that hay came from!

Steve Bridges
Kimas Tejas Nursery

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan, Matthew" <matthew.ryan_at_rodaleinst.org>
To: <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: [compost_tea] organism feeders


> "But I sometimes wonder how good those rules are when hay passes through
different parties hands? How can we protect our selves from clopyralid? Is
there a simple (meaning
> inexpensive test) that can be done?"
>
> A germination test with garden cress (Lepidium sativum L.) or lettuce
(Lactuca sativa) is recommended to test for the absence of residues of toxic
breakdown products. The cress test is a qualitative assay with high
sensitivity.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Giannou [mailto:thomas_at_tandjenterprises.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:59 PM
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] organism feeders
>
>
> Elaine,
>
> You bring up a good point about clopyralid. I wish they would ban that
> product! It's frequently okay for farmers to use clopyralid on their hay
to
> control weeds, but when they bale the hay who knows where the bales end
up?
> A local garden store perhaps? And then a CTer buys a bale or a gardener
> uses the hay for mulch in their garden and one can kiss those broad leaf
> garden plants goodbye! Where clopyralid is used, there's frequently rules
> for who can apply the product and there should be rules for what can be
done
> with the hay treated with the product. But I sometimes wonder how good
> those rules are when hay passes through different parties hands?
> How can we protect our selves from clopyralid? Is there a simple (meaning
> inexpensive test) that can be done?
>
> --Thomas Giannou
> http://www.tandjenterprises.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: soilfoodweb_at_aol.com
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] organism feeders
>
>
> There is also a protozoan inoculum available from holmes enviro_at_attbi.com
> for folks who don't want the trouble of making the hay infusion.
>
> Remember to make sure the hay has not been treated with clopyralid!
>
> Elaine Ingham
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:16:02 -0500
   From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
Subject: Re: arthropods

Hi Judy,
Here is a recipe for an insect repellent. I've used it and it works!
      Garlic/Pepper Tea
      Ingredients: 2 bulbs garlic, 2 hot peppers, blender 1/2 full of water.
Mix in blender. Strain solids and add to one gallon of water to make a
concentrate. Use 1/4 cup of concentrate and two tablespoons of Horticultural
Molasses per gallon of water for foliar applications that act as an
effective insect repellent for your plants. Do not use on insect pollinated
vegetable plants.

      For fire ants, if you're not getting the control you want from just
compost tea, you can use this recipe for mound control....rough up the mound
and slowly pour into the center. It takes a gallon per average size mound.

      To one gallon of compost tea, add;
      -four ounces of orange oil
      -two tablespoons of molasses

      Steve Bridges
      Kimas Tejas Nursery
      (who has time to participate now that the nursery business has slowed
down!)

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Robert Norsen
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 1:37 PM
  Subject: RE: [compost_tea] arthropods


  Judi Stewart - Hi In our experince you don't need special pepper tea to
control mpst insects. The normal TEA does a good job. at least on aphids.
Bob

  Judi Stewart <js_at_olympus.net> wrote:
    Mike,



    How did you make your garlic/pepper tea?



    Thanks,



    Judi



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mike Bosko [mailto:mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com]
    Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 7:45 AM
    To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [compost_tea] arthropods



    I'm lucky enough to not have to deal with fire ants here, but something
worth trying. I used to spray a strong garlic/pepper (habenaro) tea and
found that it decimated a big red ant colony here. My wife was complaining
about them attacking her when she worked in her flower bed . so I figured it
wouldn't hurt and dumped a couple cupfuls on them, next day they were all
dead and gone.









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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:46:37 -0700
   From: "Mike Bosko" <mjbosko_at_jmtsystems.com>
Subject: RE: Compost for tea

Steve and all others who responded... Thanks for the replies on my compost..
Sounds like I'm doing okay then. I was just out tractor turning my very
large manure and chopped hay piles. As the steam was pouring off from the
newly stacked piles I got to wondering...

At what point is compost best used for tea? Seems like the microbs are
really busy and awake during the early stages, but this might be the point
where its more dangerous to humans. But when its done 'cooking' I would
think that microb activity is low. Do these little guys go into a slumber
or start to die off when the fresh goods are broken down?

But in short, at what stage is it best to use your compost in a tea? After
its cooled down? Is there a temperature that was found best? Moisture
level?

Curious.

-Mike
Ellensburg, WA
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Steve Bridges [mailto:kimas_at_texasgrown.com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 6:59 PM
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Compost for tea


  Hi Mike,
  Home-made compost, in my opinion, would always be preferable to
commercially available compost if the home-made compost were a high quality
compost. And it certainly sounds like your making a wonderful compost! Go
with it.....

  I've wondered about using commercially made bagged or even bulk compost in
tea making. One would think that the bagged stuff would be less microbially
active because it is in a bag.....the compost has been denied air, for how
long, starving the organisms? And with commercially made bulk compost, it is
usually made with very few ingredients. For instance, here you can get
turkey litter compost, or cotton bur compost, or tree trimming compost, etc.
Wouldn't a compost made with fewer ingredients be less nutrionally and
microbially complete?

  I would think that your compost, or any good homemade compost, would be
better because of the variety of materials that go into the pile and the
freshness of the compost when you use it.

  Sounds like you need to get with Nehemiah and help him put a pile
together!

  Steve Bridges
  Kimas Tejas Nursery
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Mike Bosko
    To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 5:07 PM
    Subject: [compost_tea] Compost for tea


    Ok, here are some of the questions I've been brewing in terms of
home-stacked compost for tea. I just spent an hour outside turning my
pile - it seems so rich, crumbly, smells so earthy and chock full of earth
worms, I can't imagine that its not good for tea. But anyway, here goes the
questions. I'm curious what you think:



    Q:

    My piles are primarily composed of:



    Brown matter: Chaff timothy/alfalfa/grass mix hay (I grow myself - no
pesticides or chem. Fertilizers) + dry plant prunings + fall leaves + pine
needles (regardless what people tell me, they break down quickly, the worms
love them and I really think it helps my highly alkaline soils) + shredded
newspaper (no color ink)



    Green matter: Horse manure (low to no chems fed to my horses, worming is
done at a minimum and only as necessary (rare)) + grass clippings + kitchen
scraps + chicken manure (I only have 3 chickens so not much of that).



    Piles get roughly 3:1 brown to green materials

    I turn my piles about once every 1 to 3 weeks.

    Try to keep them moist, but wicking from the hay does tend to dry it out
on occasion.

    Also, at times there are mucky wet centers if not turned w/in 2 weeks.



    Without testing, are these materials okay for use in teas?





    Q:

    Worms -- sign of good compost for tea?

    My compost is always full of red earthworms, lots of them. After
unloading many of them to my garden, they seem to multiply to their high
level in no time. I just hate the thought of drowning the little buggers if
I were to be making tea out of it.



    Q:

    Mushrooms -- Sign of good compost for tea?

    In the shady recesses of my compost area, that I tend to neglect
turning, mushrooms are showing themselves. Would this imply good fungal
growth? Good compost? The bulk of my compost, that is turned often, doesn'
t tend to get, or stay, wet enough for mushrooms to grow. But they do so in
the shady corners - and I live in an arid region of WA state.



    Q:

    Moist, Crumbly, Earthy Smell - Sign of good compost for tea?

    As mentioned before, my piles when turning, smell earthy and sweet.
With all the horse manure we go through, I must be adding enough brown goods
because the piles always smell earthy and crumble in my hands.



    Just some of the questions I've been pondering - I'm looking to make
some teas on my own, with my own self made brewer - but also am looking into
the option of purchasing one too. I'd just really like to use my own
composts.



    Thanks!!



    Mike





    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    compost_tea-unsubscribe_at_yahoogroups.com



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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:27:21 -0500
   From: "Steve Bridges" <kimas_at_texasgrown.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Chlorinated water

Data is needed, always as she says!

Why couldn't a simple test be done with some healthy soil that is tested
before and after chlorinated tap water was used to 'water' the soil? Assays
could be taken to verify the microbial life that was present and then
possibly altered by the chlorine.

I too have wondered what was happening to all those happy little critters in
the freshly inoculated soil when I turned on the water sprinkler.

Couldn't you do this in your spare time Doctor Elaine?....8~)

Steve Bridges
Kimas Tejas Nursery
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tom Jaszewski
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:43 PM
  Subject: RE: [compost_tea] Re: Chlorinated water


  OUCH!!!



  The $1200 DEchlorinating filter insures tea and makeup water are chlorine
free, an important part of commercial tea production. 2 million gallons at
0.0006 cents a gallon is a viable solution.



  We have continued to test the conditions here over the past 4 years. We
collect water in a grid pattern used to measure the distribution uniformity
of the irrigation systems. Random samples from fine spray patterns (Toro 870
series and Rainbird 1800's at ½-1 GPM on 10-15 foot patterns) captured in
collection cups spaced every 10 feet continue to show high levels of
chlorine. It seems with sustainable practices the chlorine does not hamper
micorrhyzae and the soil food web is improving. I can't help but wonder if
there wouldn't be even better results by irrigating with chorine free water.
All tea concentrations are applied chlorine free.



  At home I have always used a 16/1 proportioner with chlorinated tap water.
The results have been good and even great. Perhaps the short contact time, a
matter of seconds, is not sufficient to affect the biology seriously.
Arboriculture standards require contact time in excess of 90 seconds to
insure disinfection of soil tools. I just don't believe dissipation of
chlorine is necessarily "apparent".



  More testing is needed. It would seem to be good science for a tea brewer
to test their brew water.



  BTW my tomatoes and vegetables seem (no science) far healthier this year
without chlorinated water.





  Tom Jaszewski

  www.livesoil.com

  702-595-7012







  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Lowenfels [mailto:jeff_at_gardener.com]
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 3:05 PM
  To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: Chlorinated water



  <<<At the levels found in our water(2PPM), there is no dissapation of
  chlorine using a lawn sprinkler>>





  Well, if you are promoting and selling 1200 dollar(!!!) chlorinators and
your competition turns out to be a simple 10 dollar lawn sprinkler, you
might think that! :)



  jeff









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