[compost_tea] Re: Tilth Report; Bob, Doc E, Frank Replies

From: Kirk Leonard <kirk_at_oregonatural.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:49:22 -0700

By my gods, anti-biotic hoses? How far can we go? We live with and depend
on (even if many don't know) all those tiny critters and their diversity,
even if we never touch the ground to cultivate soil or grow plants. Why
would anyone want an anti-biotic hose, let alone make one? This is a new
peak of stupidities for me.

USDA didn't show up yesterday in Corvallis. No surprise, as there seems to
be limited organic sense or courage there. I need to eat my own words,
however, as processed manures are not new. I was simply taken by surprise
that USDA would proclaim them "organic." I learned they've been out there
for years and some can be beneficial. Still wouldn't pick up any packaged
"steer manure" however, and loathe that they might be deemed "organic."

What USDA is after with "processed manure materials" is a cheaper, less
energy intensive factory feed lot outlet,
apparently. Makers of processed manures using the "shake and bake" method
have previously used 250 degrees F or more to cook it and NOP proposes 150
degrees. Clever but ultimately dumb, imo. Anyone have any data about what
else we're getting in this stuff? I certainly wouldn't use it for any kind
of tea.

> Scenario, Kirk, E-coli did take a life and a liver of a kid here in Wa.
They traced it to ground beef. More recently strawberries were found the
source of E-Coli. Dirty irrigation ditch water you say. So water can
contaminate crops with E-coli. <
Yes, ecoli can be carried in water (..if you're dumb enough to use that
water). And the only deaths ever recorded were associated with big meat
(and of sicknesses not just from ecoli), ya?

> Do you doubt that compost TEA would make a target? <
Yes. I believe Doc E's latest work shows conclusively that dangerous ecoli
is suppressed and not conveyed in AACT.

> I didn't claim in my "potential scenario" that CT on lettuce had ever
infected anyone. <
Good. I never heard of it either. On presenting compost tea yesterday,
Steve Sheuerell stated a couple times: "This is all theoretical. Compost
tea has never been suspected or reported in any case of food contamination."
This is not an exact quote, but I am sure he would back it up. USDA is
basically making this crap up.

> Elaine's tests show clearly that manure compost is likely to retain some
E-Coli unless it is expertly processed. <
Even as expertly processed, manures are likely to contain coliforms, most of
which are beneficial. The USDA bugaboo on ecoli in manures is bogus. If
you have a source of O157:H7 (possibly a GE thing?) there is some real
danger. If you breathe urban air you are in greater danger, imo. Life is
like
that. As far as I am concerned, there is absolutely no danger from compost
teas unless it smells bad, in which rare case it should be dumped in
developing soil and stirred up with good compost.

As we concluded in the raw manure focus group yesterday, 100% safety is not
possible. I personally think it's not a reasonable or good goal, either.

> Am I steamed? Dam right. I'm watching a highly valuable free ranging
wonderfully researched supplements industry be targeted for destructive
regulation because the industry as a group did allow some profit hungry
idiots to pedal stuff that is disastrous to the unwitting user. A defect
in the way supplements are managed opened the door to regulators. Pharma
benefits. The world's people lose. <
I hear you big time on this Bob. Unfortunately, CT has come to a regulatory
state under USNOP. More regulated possibly than many other, truly damaging
practices and stuff. Stupidly. I hope to feel better when the "National
List"
has more organic than synthetic content.

Doc E: I don't advocate manure teas, especially raw manures, though I'm
still open to there being something there that might be ok.

Doc E and I agreed yesterday that composted manure makes compost tea, not
manure tea yesterday, per se, so that's resolved,by the way.:-) She also
said she'd send the answers to her basic test on 6/14 and I look forward to
that, too.

Frank: Did my grandma and your grandpa ever meet? Processed manure
materials seem not to acheive the dessication phase. Are there different
standards in Canada? The info on drying out O157 is interesting. Has that
been replicated?

Forward hoe. That's all we can do. I hope we're together here and think we
are. I will always appreciate bob-o-lators, no matter what.

-- Kirk





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Received on Tue Jul 01 2003 - 19:55:25 EDT

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