[compost_tea] Re: Re: NOP regulations & Home Tests

From: Kirk Leonard <kirk_at_oregonatural.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:03:21 -0700

Home Tests: First, Jeff, I didn't intend to be blaming anyone, I just wanted
to know the status of the new tea test kit. Thanks for the info. Sounds
like it's pushed into next year? ...which is ok, just wanted to know. Real
time, home, farm tests of CT are important, for sure.

In the meantime, couple messages ago, when she was in a great mood, it
seems, there in the coolth down under, Doc E suggested something that seems
like it would be a great test step if we could do it in real time on our
own: A stain that reveals live organisms. Short of a microscope, could
this be something we can color code with paper fiber or see with a
magnifying glass on a light table using a medium dipped in tea, or what?

Seems to me the great process standards we've (Doc and Jeff especially and
others thanks) found and named, as in Doc E excerpt below, while not a test,
will
at least keep us from messing up. Lots of "home" tests - many nose tests,
eye, hand tests, goodness even sound tests - temp, pH tests, and if you can
afford it
DO monitoring - add confidence.

But the major factor still unknowable while making ACT - living organism
content - is only knowable some days later for a product we know we need to
use now. This is totally frustrating, and there has to be a simple way to
assess
living content while you're doing it. Low-medium-high indicators would be
enough!

NOP regulations

Thanks, Doc, for the update. Is there some way to get USDA to document
that? I've tried and I'm sure others have tried but only Tom J was able to
get a written statement from USDA as far as I know. Best we got was CT was
"raw manure." One dumb letter, in a year of many folks trying. Boy does
USDA communicate well on this!

Is there something different on NOP website today? Last I knew the only
mention of compost tea there was buried in NOSB recommendations and said it
was "ineligible to satisfy" soil fertility rules, which was not what NOSB
said or recommended. This is actually a major USNOP edit, worse than raw
manure.

Per Elaine's suggestion, any of you who have US Reps who are members of the
Organic Caucus (below) should ask them about USDA's position on compost tea.
USNOP & CT is an uphill thing and needs to be pushed on congressionally.
Thank goodness certifiers are ruling differently.

Back to home tests. I want to repeat part of Doc E's message today. Seems
to me it's a state-of-the-art statement on compost tea quality and safety.

> When you start to deal with aeration, you have to pay attention to
> temperature and air pressure because they determine maximum
> oxygen concentration in the water.

> You have to pay attention to microbial growth, because microbes use oxygen
> and respire carbon dioxide. Microbial growth may drop oxygen low enough
that
> human pathogens can outcompete the aerobic microbes. When you deal with
> microbial growth, you have to pay attention to temperature (microbial
growth rate
> increases with temperature typically) and amounts of foods added (more
> food, more microbes).

> So really, in order to assess the habitat and make sure it is not
> conducive to human pathogen growth, you have to assess:

> temperature
> air pressure
> oxygen concentration
> microbial foods
> bacteria, fungi
> protozoa

> What am I missing?

pH? Water condition?

> Temperature should be monitored hourly through the brew. How fast will
> the organisms grow, and how much oxygen can the water hold?

> Air pressure should be known at the beginning of the brew (temp and air
> pressure will tell you the max oxygen possible in the brew. There may be
> times, with compost that you know contains pathogens, where you will
> not be able to brew, because the temperature is too high, and therefore
> oxygenconcentration will be too low at the start of the brew to select
< against the pathogens.

> Oxygen concentration should be monitored throughout the brew. We have
seen
> 5.5 to 6 ppm to be the "cut-off" when dealing with typical aerobic microbe

to
> facultative anaerobic microbe growth conditions. Valid in all situations?
> What if you have a fermentative lactic-acid bacteria community of
organisms?

> Microbial foods should be added relative to the set of microbes in the
> compost, which will determine the growth achieved during the brew cycle,
given that
> oxygen concentration that can be maintained by the machine through the
brewing
> cycle. This is information machine manufacturers should determine, and
which
> all the tea machines manufacturers [need to provide]. <

Paul and Bob are onto another important process piece, as are others, and
Doc and Jeff would agree, I think. Managing nutrients over time makes a lot
of sense, rather than just dumping everything in on starting, unless you're
making a 12-hour tea overnight, I suppose - that twelve hour tea uses the
highest throughput of air, by the way.

As for tilling, Rodale did advocate plowing fields, note operative word
"fields." Not gardens. He also emphasized minimal tilling. Thank you
Dennis for what sounds wonderfully right, "a field of compost growing edible
fresh food." What a great concept.

On another question I'd note Doc's anaerobic tea rap suggests there might be
good, safe biocides out there (deadly on leaves, dissipates on soil) for
weed whacking, hmm...

-- Kirk L

FYFI:
US House Organic Caucus Members
May 6, 2003

Caucus Chairs:
1. Rep. Ron Kind (D-WI)
2. Rep. Sam Farr (D-CA)
3. Rep Peter Defazio (D-OR)
4. Rep. Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD)
5. Rep. Amo Houghton (R-NY)
6. Rep. James Walsh (R-NY)

Caucus Members:
7. Rep. Tom Allen (D-ME)
8. Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
9. Rep. George Miller (D-CA) [
10. Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX)
11. Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
12. Rep. Dale Kildee (D-MI)
13. Rep. Anna Eshoo (D-CA)
14. Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI 2nd)
15. Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY 8th)
16. Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ 12th)
17. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA 30th
18. Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY 24 th)
19. Rep. Tom Udall (D-NM 3rd)
20. Rep. Jay Inslee (D-WA 1st)
21. Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD 8th)
22. Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI 6th)

There are some really good people here, if not enough Republicans yet.
These are reps who should be able to cause USDA to say something on CT. If
you let them know of your good results, experience, and concern about USDA
attitudes on compost and compost tea, could be we'll get through sooner than
later. Ask, whatever. Speak up. Educate.



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Received on Sun Aug 10 2003 - 22:11:42 EDT

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