Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT

From: Robert Norsen <bnbrew_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:46:31 -0700 (PDT)

Yeah GO. I am interested in that test result. Can we talk about the proceedure? Bob

Steve Bridges <kimas_at_texasgrown.com> wrote:I've got a BobOLator and a 22gal Earth Tea Brewer. I'm ready to start testing. If my testing can tie into what you're proposing, I'll be glad to participate.
 
We would all have to use the same compost and the same ingredients, calibrated for brew size. That still doesn't eliminate variables such as temperature, water quality, etc. But we could still gain some useful insight.
 
Steve Bridges
BobO 50gal and EPM 22gal (good idea Judi!)
----- Original Message -----
From: David Loring
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Re: ACT


Dennis - You're right of course, it can't be done with a single test. It wouldn't be fair whatever the outcome. Any rigorous test would have at least four repetitions of the same experiment. Maybe there are enough machines out there that we would have at least two identical machines for each type manufactured. If there were not really significant differences then that might tell the story. I'm open to anything that will actually sort out some of these variables, even those we expect in the lab results.. Maybe Elaine would tell us what the acceptable limits are for her lab testing in the sense of one sample being run multiple times as a quality control test. I agree that there are limits to what any lab can do. I don't know what to think at this point, I've never sent paired, blind samples before. I would pay for one of the samples though if someone paid for the other.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: dkemnitz2000
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 7:49 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT


---Dave, I was trying to point out there are many variables included
even in the testing, even of objective tests. I run a flour sample
here (myself) and do all the sample prep one day and do it again the
next day and get different numbers (vitamins B1 and B2 for instance)
each day. New variables the next day? Sample changed? Usually the
numbers are close but what do you do when it comes time for
disposition esp when numbers are not close? Maybe average, maybe
rerun sample, maybe get another sample? Maybe re-write the specs.?
Maybe throw out one for some reason. Anyway experimental design will
be important in the brewer tests. Dennis



In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "David Loring" <dloring3_at_c...> wrote:
> Dennis - I agree with about 95% of what you've said but there is a
need for testing in my mind, not with someones hard found recipe, but
with a mutually agreed to compost and food of some kind. Unless we
can get information about the variability of these machines then
we're all on our own a bit and progress, much needed, will be
difficult. It's hard to extrapolate to new situations unless we nail
down the variables one at a time. I think the strength of this forum
is found in combining our sometimes expensive experiences. I've
spent a couple thousand on testing myself without any product except
that I teach. Those of us in the non-commercial world stand to gain
the most from sharing. If I can pay for only one report and get the
answers from 5-10 others I'd consider it money well spent.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dkemnitz2000
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:04 PM
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: ACT
>
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "tomjasz" <tom_at_l...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, but understandably the developers of the
nutrient
> > packs have invested thousands of dollars in their "recipes".
Two
> > developers I have conversations with aren't particularly
excited
> > about having a competition. They are busy with their farmers,
fruit
> > growers and viticulturists developing successful operations
based
> on
> > sustainable practice and using ACT as a part of the program.
The
> > controlled testing has been going on with several manufacturers
for
> > several years. The idea of a competition borders on the
ridiculous
> > from my perspective. What would such a competition achieve?
> > Apparently several tea systems are producing stellar results.
Some
> > find the need to blather about and have NOT achieved any
consistent
> > successes.(comment not directed at list!) I continue to suspect
> they
> > bandy about only the best of their tests. Other manufacturers
> > consistently produce high quality tea without competitions or
this
> > list. Please don't misunderstand that comment...there are over
300
> > members and about ten posters!!!
> >
> > Thanks for the invitation Tom! I already wrote Brewer Bob and
this
> list two opinions earlier today which I cancelled for
consideration
> to all.
> I'd have to say my bottom line is cost perhaps like many of
you.
> I believe in tests, like Jeff. I am a lab tech in a food testing
lab
> and don't make enough money to hire tests on tea I'll use on a
65
> acre farm. In our lab we use standard testing procedures. Some
> samples(duplicates) are sent to other labs to see how we compare
to
> them. You might be suprised but they don't get the same answer
we
> get any way. Even labs(and brewers) must deal with accuracy and
> precision.
> So I'll be brewing, testing applying and reporting based on
what I
> glean from this board and seminars and cd's and ATTRA and
whatever
> else might work without hiring many experts. I guess this is
better
> than spraying pesticides herbicides and fertilizers. Dennis
Kemnitz
>
>
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Received on Sat Aug 30 2003 - 18:08:01 EDT

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