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Re: Comments from California



Erorganic@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> Without repeating much of Sal's message, here is a response to Rich:
> 
> > only  want the big players and small organic farmers have no business
> > farming if they can not pay this extra tax for growing organic.  Small
> > organic farmers why don't they all just fad away.  There is nothing like a
> > level playing field. Thanks
> >  If they charge the certifier the certifier pass the cost down to the
> > farmer if they charge an inspector it is the farmer that pays. the farmer
> > is paying for all this. It is just another way to bleed the turnips.
> > More government more taxes made up special for those crooked,lying organic
> > growers.  I already pay an inspector, I already pay a certifier,I all ready
> > pay the state of Ca. this is getting nuts.  How many pencil pushers do
> > organic farmers have to pay off just because they want to sell organic food
> > as organic.
> Sal,
>         You're absolutely right on target when you discuss the burgeoning
> bureaucracy that is being constructed to remove dollars from the pocket
> of people who are actually growing organic product. All these people,
> organizations, and government agencies  add absolutely not one iota of
> value to that product. We seem to be going down the same road that
> conventional ag went until it finally transformed those farmers into
> agribusiness puppets.
>         I am president of the Indiana Chapter of OCIA and I would love nothing
> more than to see there be no need for certification.    The primary
> reason  we have certification is because there is no connection and
> trust between the farmer and the people that consume the  food they
> produce . We all know the way to make that connection is to grow and (is to)
> sell local. Unfortunately, it takes time to build those markets and
> connections and therefore entrepreneurs ( certifying agencies, inspector
> trainers, consultants, etc) saw a route by which  that they could
> parasitize people who actually work and produce goods.  This appears to
> be the way of the modern world. People who really want to avoid work and
> can produce no useful product or service need to attach to those people
> that can. Every time money changes hands there is inevitably (sp) some
> other character around who wants to take a cut even though they neither
> have nor will add anything of  value to that good or service. When
> organic beans go overseas to a processor there is no connection.
> Brokers, certifiers, etc obtain dollars. When organic produce comes to
> Indiana from California there is no connection. Enter parasites, once
> again.  I don't need certification to sell my beef  locally.  When I can
> sell it all locally I will not need to get my pasture, grain and hay
> certified. I work with the folks in our Chapter because they are all
> wonderful productive people and I have told them that I look forward to
> the day when those agribusiness persons  who do not meet a minimum
> standard of  organic or sustainable production methods will be  the ones
> surcharged and certified as social, economic , and environmental
> culprits, and will continue to be charged until they can prove
> otherwise.
>         If most people really knew how their food was produced and what effects
> it has on rural communities and the natural systems, they would
> certainly demand that the "playing field be properly leveled". They
> would begin to understand that most of the costs of food are not added
> to the price of food, so food is consequently drastically under valued
> in this country and most of the world. They would begin to realize that
> agrichemical companies add no value but exact tremendous profits and in
> addition destroy people, communities , and natural ecosystems.
>         Sal, I know I'm not really telling you anything you don't already know,
> but there are many others who read these messages that need to learn
> much of what organic farmers are trying to disseminate. All I really had
> to say was " Keep up the fight because there many folks who will benefit
> from your efforts". I guess I'm just getting  both a little frustrated
> and verbose.  Grow, buy, and sell local. Buck megatrends. Support local
> businesses and stay out of major chains.      ( Walmart, etc are some
> of the worst plagues on this planet)
> 
> >From Eric Kindberg
> Hello Rich and all,
> 
> Firstly, I do not feel secure speaking for organic farmers, except when I
> quote either what the Organic Foods Production Act says, or I have in fact,
> sampled the consensus of organic farmers.
> 
> Organic farmers created the organic certification agencies, the system of
> inspection and the standards for both farm and handling operation
> certification, both in terms of the private sector certification and
> ultimately most of the content of the Act.  In the process their objective
> was to create a system to assure the consumer they were getting what they
> paid for--products produced and handled by a transparent and clearly stated
> system of farming and handling.  Obviously, such a strong statement would
> take some time to determine and verify.  Organic farmer's certification
> agencies had been experimenting and improving the organic certification
> system since the early 70s.  In OCIA as in many other private sector
> certification agencies we attempted to perform this verification and
> determination of certification status as least expensive as possible,
> primarily with us, certified organic farmers, along with other non organic
> farmers, sitting on the certification determination committee.  And yet,
> there was still a cost--administration, the inspector, the certificate.  As
> anyone who has ever run a chapter of OCIA (or another private agency) and
> carried out quality certifications on say 25 farms and 5 handling operations
> in the course of one year using volunteer labor soon acknowledges, this is a
> lot of work--definitely non-profit.  Only the inspector, perhaps the
> administrator is getting paid.  Private for profit organic certifiers are few
> and far between.  Farm Verified Organic, Quality Assurance International are
> really the only two that come to mind out of 65 US organic certifiers (if you
> count every OCIA and NOFA Chapter as a single certifier.)  In fact every
> chapter of OCIA International and each NOFA Chapter are making the final
> decision on the qualifications of organic certification applicants.  As
> private sector organic certifiers became more professional and organic
> standards grew to encompass all types of agriculture, along came the States.
>  24 or so now with State organic laws.  Some of the laws are really
> registration laws with simple requirements a farm or handling operation must
> meet in order to use the word "organic"--California comes to mind.  Other
> States got in the actual certifying of farms and handling operations, like
> Washington, New Mexico, Texas, Idaho, Maryland, New Hampshire, Louisiana.
>  Other States approved the certification agencies that operate within their
> State like Florida, Indiana, Minnesota, Ohio and may have certain
> requirements to use the word "organic".  All in all State organic laws tended
> to reflect somewhat what the existing private certifiers in these States
> wanted made into law.   Some time State organic laws caused trouble for
> existing private sector certifiers.  California might be interpreted as such.
>  State organic programs as well as all other related state employees and
> their offices need to carry on their appointed work with the objective of
> balancing the interest of organic farmers, handlers and customers in light of
> applicable laws as their highest mission.  Ultimately though, only the
> involved citizen can assure such an outcome.
> 
> In Arkansas, a State law was brought before the the 1994 legislature by very
> influential members of the legislature.  It started by charging everyone
> certified organic in Arkansas $25 and ended up coming out of committee asking
> for a minimum of $100 for the farmer and $200 for the handling operation.
>  Furthermore, it turned the decision of who could be certified as well as
> accreditation of private certifiers over to the State Plant Board, who knew
> zero about organic farming, certifying or handling.  We stopped the law by
> finding out who had proposed it--some very influential rice and soybean
> growers who had received request to supply organic field crops to large
> firms.  When I talked with the individual farmers, explained there were
> already many private sector organic certifiers (provided phones and
> addresses) available to certify their land and handling operations and that
> the National Organic Program would soon come into being and supersede all
> State organic laws, perhaps creating havoc and confusion if Arkansas got into
> the certification program development with a Federal Law on the books, they
> called their representatives and the bill was immediately retracted.  Common
> sense, good timing, close observation and communication performed the deed.
>  All traits I might point out that the best farmers or business operations
> (also citizens in a democracy) anywhere must have to be successful.
> 
> Now, I strongly suggest anyone actively concerned about the future of organic
> farming, handling, certification and the National Organic Program read the
> details of the law on the OFMA Website http://iquest.net/ofma/    You will
> find OFPA, the House/Senate Joint Conferee Report (the final reasons for
> passage of the final language of OFPA) and numerous documents related to what
> these documents say and their potential impact on the people effected.  I
> know it sounds like a big order, but as Sagan use to say the librarys are
> very large, but their is usually only a very few important books related to
> what we want to know.  Our problem is finding them.  Here is one of the most
> important US laws: Every US citizen should know the details of the Regulatory
> Flexibility Act (RFA) as amended in the 94 Congress.  The RFA is to make sure
> that so called "small entities" are not detrimentally effected by Acts of
> Congress.  RFA acknowledges that all Acts of Congress are passed to manage
> and regulate "large entities" not small entities.  I simply can not take the
> time to quote RFA here, but will tell you that it is essential to read the
> RFA to know your rights concerning rule enactment as a US citizen, as a small
> business, a small farm, a small non-profit, a small or local community
> government.   Under RFA small entities have a legal basis to not be burdened
> with regulations that would detrimentally effect their affairs.  How OFMA
> believes the RFA applies to the organic community of small to moderate size
> farms, certifiers and businesses is also on the
> Website--http:www//iquest.net/ofma/     The OFMA Website will lead you to
> details of the RFA by touching the hyperlinks.  Opinion and a lot of
> sputtering inflammatory rhetoric will not effect regulatory agencies.  What
> does effect them is the necessity to follow the law.  In a democracy it is
> the citizens' responsibility to make regulatory agencies follow the law, in
> this case, using OFPA and RFA and common sense, good timing, close
> observation and communication will do the job.  Suit can follow if necessary.
> 
> 
> In previous or subsequent writings I have illustrated how OFPA can provide
> consumer assurance at a reasonable price, with reasonable paperwork and
> little intrusion into the life and business of an applicant for organic
> certification status.  If you feel I am incorrect, I challenge you that each
> of ours first task is to be informed on the language and intent of OFPA and
> RFA.  I think, rather I know, with OFPA and RFA as the basis of conversing
> and subsequent direct action, the direction to take in redressing Sal's
> grievances or Rich's suggestions for lessening the burden on small organic
> farmers, certifiers and handlers will become very clear, legal, powerful and
> be able to be joined by many others.
> 
> Local production for local need and circumventing the unnecessary middle
> agent in marketing:
> Now, I am running out of time.  Local organic production for local demand
> will only come into being throughout the US when there is a national,
> consistent and uniform organic standard and no interference in interstate
> trade of organic products.  (Remember a lot of folks live near State lines
> which across them comprises a local market.)  This only will occur with
> implementation of OFPA.  Local production for local demand will only come
> into being when local farmers are efficient in biological management of their
> soils and are efficient in mechanical, labor (including harvest and post
> harvest handling) and marketing management and performance.  If someone does
> not know what efficient management and performance is, visit the local,
> regional or national organic farm that is growing the fast and dominating the
> market.  Price reflects efficiency in 99% of the cases.  Those who are
> selling organic products at the most reasonable prices can do so for reasons
> of efficiency.  Without visiting any farms, any farmer can innovate and
> become efficient by simply using the maxim of common sense, good timing,
> close observation and communication.   But lets face it as organic farmers,
> many, many organic farmers are simply not efficient and have on occasion let
> quality not be a priority.  There is no excuse in the market place for such
> production.
> 
> Now on the marketers.
> The conventional wholesale distribution system exist as it is because it
> works--it fulfills the customers needs--those customers being the retail
> business buyer and translating (and influencing) the consumers needs and
> desires to the broker.  Collusion exist, but what wholesalers can recognize
> very quickly is consistent production, consistent high quality, diversity of
> production and on time delivery.  All these attributes are essential to any
> successful marketing of production, organic or conventional.
> 
> There are real ways to change the existing wholesale distribution system, to
> make the linkage more direct and immediate between the consumer and the
> producer.  Walmart, for the many objections voiced about it, was the biggest
> retail outlet to accomplish just that--shorten the link between producer and
> consumer.  4 years ago Walmart eliminated all the brokers and middle agents.
>  Walmart became its own broker.  And it passed part of the savings on to the
> consumer from its purchasing policy and started buying from the producers.
>    The hint is there.  Organic farmers have to ban together to consolidate
> knowledge of their supply, centralize offering of products and market it
> direct to the most direct market they can reach.   The most direct, large
> volume market available to organic farmers is presently through the 10 coop
> warehouses and direct into coop storefronts--all 1200 of them across the
> country.   Farmer markets including farm stands, restaurants and CSA groups
> are existing, immediate local options that can be individually developed.  As
> anyone in organic farm production soon realizes, under the present marketing
> scenario, local markets are saturated rapidly once vegetable farms expand to
> in number an acreage.  The same goes for field crop, dairy and livestock
> producers.  To create consistent markets for increasing numbers of organic
> small to moderate farms, marketing must and will expand into the retail
> grocery outlets.   A worthwhile question is whether organic farmers want to
> support the home grown cooperative grocery outlet or the mega-chains.  All
> small to moderate size organic farmers selling individually know where they
> stand with the mega-chains--at the bottom of the food supply chain.  So, why
> bother organizing production for them.
> 
> Under the USDA National Organic Marketing Cooperative Feasibility Study a
> scenario for high speed telecommunication marketing was developed.   The
> system was developed to give priority to local production for local sales by
> every 10 minutes from the beginning of a daily offering, enlarging the circle
> of offering by a 50 to a 100 mile radius from the epicenter of 5 to 6 organic
> farms location.  If an order was taken, the volume was subtracted from the
> total offering.  Prospective buyers could buy anytime but received a priority
> offering at the first offering of the day from local producers to buy firstly
> from local supply.  By the same token as sales was not taken up locally, then
> ever enlarging regionally offerings were made.  Offerings extend further out
> from the epicenter in concentric circles until the product(s) are sold.  Such
> a complex system of priority for local sales and further expansion of sales
> opportunity was very costly and time consuming before the advent of high
> speed communications.  Email is the preferred offering and contracting
> medium, cutting cost to a bare minimum.
> 
> Organizing:
> A farmer run cooperative association is the only way to keep cost low and
> responsiveness to farmers high.  The marketing association does not have to
> have in house sales staff, but could take bids from private or cooperative
> marketing businesses to operate on a contract basis with the association.
>  Such a bidder would have to maintain all the other normal support services:
> production and transportation coordination, market development and post
> harvest handling quality education and control, perhaps a degree of
> production technical assistance and of course sales information
> consolidation, offering and accomplishment.  The study concluded this is the
> only way small to moderate size organic farms in any number will be able to
> compete with the CalOrganics, Pavich Farms, Piedmont Farms, Cargill, Kellogg,
> Tyson or Montfort or MidAm.  Further innovation and suggestions are in order.
> 
> Each kind of crop production sector would have to design the style and
> procedures for the respective cooperative marketing association.  A new
> organic marketing association would work to support an alternative more
> direct farmer to consumer distribution network--the coop distribution centers
> and coop storefronts.  The Organic Farmers Marketing Association, meeting
> December 2 and 3, 1997 prior to the ACRES USA conference at the same hotel in
> St Louis, invites participation in developing such an approach for marketing
> organic products.  For more information contact Val Carr at Vcarr@ccrtc.com
> or check the OFMA website http://www.iquest.net/ofma/   for more details.
> 
> New organic handling operations for value added--innovative businesses and
> collaboration with existing cooperatives:
> Under OFPA, the national organic processing standards for livestock and other
> food products open marketing opportunities never available before.  For the
> first time poultry, processed eggs and red meat will be able to be labeled
> "organic".  New, local organic processing businesses will really have an
> island to stand on that separates them from conventional as well as a level
> field of standardized organic processing requirements that will allow them to
> compete on the taste and innovativeness of their processed organic product
> with the mega-marketers .   Local value added organic products for local
> demand can be the lever that brings repeated sales over the mega-marketers
> both in terms of pulling sales away from conventional ag products and pulling
> sales away from out of region organic marketers.  Maybe it is an opportunity
> for Indiana organic soybean producers to finally break into the expanding
> domestic and regional markets for soy products with development of their own
> value added line rather then selling to the brokers, who in turn sell to the
> processors, who in turn develop the processed organic food market.  There are
> many more possibilities then one may imagine for organic farmers to develop
> cooperative value added.  Farmer marketing cooperative value added is a
> multi-billion dollar industry in 1997 and expanding in billions every year.
>  Organic is a new and untested market for them.  Feasibility Study
> indications were that conventional farmer run marketing coops appear to be
> waiting for quality invitations on how to collaborate with organic farmers in
> new, organic market value added development.
> 
> Best of luck, until we meet again,
> 
> Eric Kindberg

Sorry to those of you who felt this discussion should die, but I must
respond when prompted. 

Eric,
	And I thought Sal was the king of stream of consciousness. Thanks for
the "War and Peace Primer" on Organic America. Through all the
verbosity, I think you demonstrate and make it clear that if it takes
about 4000 words to state the reasons for NOP that is exactly what the
product will be, a complicated and inherently unstable system.
	OFPA, RFA, HOOPLA. I prefer to engage in what you term "opinion and
sputtering inflammatory rhetoric" rather than participate in building
another  bureaucratic nightmare for farmers. When you and your OFMA
comrades must cite the scriptures of OFPA, you have surely succumbed to
the regulatory ridiculousness. Yes I know it contains some pertinent
messages, but they are clouded and swallowed by the cluttering control.
Yes, I accept it, but primarily as a necessary evil for many at this
time. 
	Reread my mail and see that I was speaking specifically of  sensible
food production when I referred to  the message that organic farmers are
trying to disseminate. I speak for nobody's politics.
	Certifications assures little more than its own self perpetuation and
was created because it was assumed to think global. You can concentrate
on overseas, out of state,  or some other obscure markets. I see no
state lines. My passion is a stable locally based food system regardless
of political boundaries. Please don't forget alot of people make a
living off of certification, and I feel OFPA ensures little more than
many more will now be able to cash in. 
	BTW, Walmart is the absolute epitome of unsustainability. If it were
not for favorable tax law they could not continue to participate in the
destruction of the fabric of rural America. Enough for now.
			                       Thanks, Rich Molini

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