RE: permaculture digest: December 02, 2000

["MARSHALL CHROSTOWSKI" <mcfarm@silcom.com>]

No Toby the test just proved that 2 kittens died, cause(s) unknown.  I got
to protest pseudoscience and non-experiments.  I would lide to see the full
reference and check it out myself. While I would never cook anything in a
microwave oven, I have yet to see credible evidence of free radicals and
alien chemicals produced from home machines.  I think the military did some
research on microwave energy for disrupting communications, disorientation
of troops, and maybe weapons and long time ago.  Some folks pick up on some
of this info and applied it, like good non-scientists, to kitchen
microwaves.

I don't trust microwaves.  We are exposed to too much electromagnetic energy
now, especially with all these cell phones, pages, mobile phones, doppler
radar, TV, video monitors...are we killing ourselves?  The industry and
government won't tell us and will take years before the issue is "proven"
one way or another.

So Hugh and Toby, please post up some URLs for us to check out.

Seedman

Subject: Re: Microwaved food
From: Toby  Hemenway <hemenway@jeffnet.org>
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 09:36:55 -0800
X-Message-Number: 1

(note: this post describes animal experiments, which many find offensive;
just wanted to warn you)

There was an experiment done awhile back in which young kittens were fed
fresh meat, canned meat, or meat that had been cooked in a microwave. All
the kittens fed microwaved food died within 3 months. If I remember
correctly, some of the kittens fed canned meat developed various health
problems, while most of the ones fed fresh meat remained healthy. We have
the reference tucked away somewhere.

Humans obviously are more robust, but this would suggest that microwaved
food either lacks important nutrients, or contains some toxin(s).

Toby


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Rick, what are you trying to access?  I've been pretty active in this USDA
organic stuff and have quite a few link bookmarked.  E-mail me direct if you
want.

Subject: Re: permaculture digest: December 01, 2000
From: rick valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 00 13:58:51 -0700
X-Message-Number: 2

Either I need a lesson on how to open the (adjective deleted) attachments,=
 or
take me off the list. Or perhaps the USDA/organics widespread alert crap
could be condensed or just referenced- I mean that stuff is not real direct=
ly
involved and available elsewhere.

Rick Valley Northern Groves=20
PO Box 1236, Philomath, OR 97370=20
Mobile-(541)602-1315, hm.& msg. (541)456-4364  Bamboo catalog $3 or at=20
<http://www.teleport.com/~dbrooks/bamboo.html>
"Useful Bamboos and other plants=8B Permaculture education=8B Ecological de=
sign &
consultation centering on water,landform and horticultural systems.

8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
888

What are "flowforms"? A bunch of us are working toward an alternative waste
water system "off the grid" so to speak.  Did I miss this item when I looked
into John Todd's system?


Subject: Flowforms Still Swirling
From: "Louis G. Laframboise" <lgl@magma.ca>
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:48:00 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5

Claude:

Thanks for replying to my e-mail. It would be about time that I reply. So
far, i have not gotten very much information regarding flowforms. I think
it will mostly involve searching (via internet at the moment) all the
different flowform sellers/designers since i cannot very well visit the
sites where these different flowforms are on sale or on display. For the
time being I am not interested in distributing flow forms regionally, but
this is a good idea to consider for the future once I learn more about
flowforms and the benefits, particularities of each. Right now, i am
learning about how to configure or size up a site for eventual integration
of flowforms. As i mentioned, my interest is in integrating flowforms into
cold climates as well as for urban areas.

What is your experience or connection with flowforms? By the way, what
brought you, or attracted you to Vermont and UVM? Can you link me up to any
contacts or info sources regarding practical info on how to set up living
machines=8Bones for small, home applications.

Let me know if you find anything significant or inspiring regarding
flowform=
s.

A la prochaine.

Louis G. Laframboise
Ottawa, Canada

>Hi Louis,
>
>Would have written you just because of your name ( I'm an ex-Montrealer
>living in Vermont) - but I'm also really curious if you might be thinking
o=
f
>distributing flow forms regionally?
>
>Also love to hear your design solutions for greywater systems in winter...
>
>John Todd ( "Living Machines") teaches here at UVM.
>
>I was reading how he reckons that the systems he's designing today are akin
>to the giant "Univac" computers of the 50's - give it 30 years and these
>sytems will begin to resemble laptops !
>
>Did you find anything ?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Claude Genest
>ISle LaMotte, Vt.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Louis G. Laframboise" <lgl@magma.ca>
>To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>

>Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:38 AM
>Subject: Flowforms: Contacts & Sources Needed
>
>
>> This is a general request to anyone interested in, or involved with
>> flowforms, including their design into the landscape, sculpture,
>> installation, evaluation,... Any contact, bibliographic or other info
>would
>> be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> I am looking to integrate flowforms into urban ecological design. The
>> flowforms will have to be seamlessly integrated with ALL of a home's or
>> building's components: greywater, rainwater catchment, aquaculture and
>> pond. A resiliant and interchangeable design is needed, e.g. so that they
>> can handle cold(er) climates.
>>
>>
>> Go gently onwards.
>>
>> Louis Laframboise
>> Ottawa, Canada
>