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[Newsender-Check validity] - Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam - Message is from an 
unknown senderSrI:

Dear Sriman Vasudevan :

Thank you very much for your posting , which
might be of wider interest to our groups .
V.S
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: M.G.Vasudevan 
  To: Vivek Shankar Natarajan 
  Cc: yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:29 AM
  Subject: RE: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam 1


        From:   Vivek Shankar Natarajan [nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx] [VSN]

        Sent:   Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:04 PM 

        To:     M.G.Vasudevan [MGV]

        Subject: Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam 

        Dear Sri Vasudevan Swami Ji, 

         

        VSN: I approach Shrimadh RaamaayaNam as a child reading about his 
divine parents. 

         

        MGV: this attitude and its practice is excellent. One must know about 
his parents very well than anything else. That way to know 'raamaayaNam' 
thoroughly and understand its nuances is very good - not only from the 'puNyam' 
angle, but also to know about the day-to-day life's teachings available there - 
including modern 'management' points.

         

        VSN: In that spirit, Shri Sita Piratti is my divine mother and I enjoy 
her maathru vaathsalyam. 

         

        MGV: in my recent writing on the krithi in aanandha bhairavi - hanumaan 
says 'maa thalli balamaa' - her 'strength' is her vaathsalyam for her children 
- later when hanumaan asks, 'please permit me to punish these raakshasis who 
tortured you' she said 'no' - that is her level of vaathsalyam- pardoning even 
those who caused torture and nuisance. So please continue to enjoy and realize 
her vaathsalyam in your life routines also.

         

        VSN: Shri Rama Piraan shows compassion towards everyone. The special 
compassion is reserved for two women who are tarred by fate or destiny - Ahalya 
and Kaikeyi. Shri Rama removes Ahalya's curse and gets a pardon for his 
stepmother from Dasharatha when he descends from Heavens. Let us not forget 
that both Ahalya and Kaikeyi, though noble, had some transgressions. 

         

        MGV: on the ahalyaa episode there is a misconception among many that 
she was lying as a stone and raama touched that stone and she got her physical 
'roopam'. That is not correct. As per vaalmeeki she was unseen, and in the 
ashes form and had air as food. See slokams and translation. 

         

        1-48-29, 30. 

        tathaa + shaptvaa + ca + vai + shakram = thus, on cursing, also, 
indeed, Indra;

        bhaaryaam + api + ca+ shaptavaan = at wife, even, also, he cursed; 

        iha + varSa + sahasraaNi = here, years, thousands; 

        bahuuni + nivaSisyasi = many, you tarry; 

        vaayu + bhakSaa + nir + aahaaraa = air, consuming, without, food; 

        tapyantii + bhasma + shaayinii = searing  [contritely,] on ashes, 
recumbent; 

        a + dR^ishyaa + sarva+ bhuutaanaam = un, seen, all, by beings; 

        aashrame + asmin + vaSisyasi = hermitage, in this one, you live on.

         

        "Thus on cursing Indra, he cursed even his wife also, indeed, saying 
'you shall tarry here for many thousands of years, foodless and consuming air 
alone, you shall be lying down on ashes contritely, unseen by all beings you 
shall live on in hermitage... this one... [1-48-29, 30]

         

        31. yadaa + tu + etat + vanam + ghoram = when, but, all this, forest, 
ghastly one; 

        raamaH + dasharatha + aatmajaH = Rama, Dasharatha's, soul-born son; 

        aagamiSyati + durdharSaH = arrives, unassailable one [Rama]; 

        tadaa + puutaa + bhaviSyasi = then, purified, you will be.

         

        "When that unassailable Rama, the soul-born son of Dasharatha, arrives 
at this ghastly forest, [for it will be rendered thus, henceforth, along with 
you....] then you will be purified... [1-48-31]

         

        32. 

        tasya + aatithyena + dur + vR^itte = to him, by warm welcome, oh, 
ill-behaved woman; lobha + moha + vivarjitaa = greed, craze, divested; 

        mat + sakaashe + mudaa + yuktaa = in my, proximity, rejoice, with; 

        svam + vapuH + dhaarayiSyasi = your own, body,  you wear [assume.]

         

        "And by welcoming him warmly, oh, ill-behaved woman, you will be 
divested with your greed and craze [in which you lingered so far...] then you 
will assume your own body and can be in my proximity, rejoicingly...' [Thus 
Sage Gautama cursed his wife Ahalya.] [1-48-32]

        http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga48/balasans48.htm

         

        MGV adds: Also on her transgression, it is she, who, willingly took on 
indhra when he wanted her and knowing fully well he is not her husband. So she 
had to be punished for that and hence the sage goutama did that curse. Of 
course indhran also had punishment. That is different. 

        But on repenting and doing the tapas of living on air and in the ashes 
form, awaiting raamaa's arrival, she is purified, and now in exalted position 
[even though had the transgression] - as saptha kanyaa. Please see here those 
transgression slokams also.

         

        14. hanta = what a pleasure; 

        te + kathayiSyaami = to you, I narrate; 

        shR^iNu + tattvena + raaghava = listen, in its reality, oh, Raghava; 

        yasya + etat + aashrama + padam = whose, all this, hermitage, 
threshold; 

        shaptam + kopaan + mahaa aatmanaa = cursed, resentfully, by 
great-souled one [Gautama].

         

        "What a pleasure! I will narrate to you Raghava and listen to it in its 
reality... whose hermitage's threshold is all this and which great-souled one 
cursed this resentfully... [1-48-14]

        Comment: The pleasure expressed by Vishvamitra is for the arrival of 
time, for the event of Rama's grace, in releasing Ahalya from her cursed state.

         

        15. gautamasya + narashreSTha = Gautama's, oh, best among men, Rama; 

        puurvam + aasiit + maha aatmanaH = once, was there [belonged to,] of 
great-souled one; 

        aashramaH + divya + sankaashaH = hermitage, heavenly, glistening; 

        suraiH + api + supuujitaH = by gods, even, well reverenced.

         

        "Oh, Rama, the best among men, once this belonged to the great-souled 
Gautama, and since it had a heavenly glisten, even gods reverenced it well... 
[1-48-15]

         

        16. saH + ca + atra + tapa + aatiSThat = he [Gautama,] there, in 
asceticism, sat tight; 

        ahalyaa + sahitaH + puraa = Ahalya [his wife,] along with, earlier; 

        varSa + puugaani + anekaani= year, cycles, numerous; 

        raja + putra = oh, king's, son, [prince Rama]; 

        mahaayashaH = highly renowned one [Gautama.]

         

        "Once that highly renowned Sage Gautama sat tight in his asceticism, in 
there along with his wife Ahalya, oh, prince Rama, for numerous cycle of 
years... [1-48-16]

         

        17. tasya + antaram + viditvaa + tu = his [Gautama's] meantime, on 
knowing, but;

        sahasraakSaH + shacii + patiH = Thousand-eyed, Sachi's husband, Indra; 

        muni + veSa + dharaH + bhuutvaa = sage's [Gautama's,] guise, wearing, 
becoming; 

        ahalyaam + idam + abraviit = to Ahalya, this, said.

         

        "On knowing the meantime [of Gautama's departure from hermitage for a 
bath,] the Thousand-eyed husband of Shaci, namely Indra, wearing the guise of 
that sage Gautama and becoming such a sage, [and on arriving at Ahalya,] this 
he said to Ahalya... [1-48-17]

         

        18. R^itu + kaalam + pratiikSante + na = seasonal [conceiving,] time, 
wait, watch out for;

        arthinaH + su + samaahite = indulgers, oh, finely limbed one; 

        sangamam + tu + aham + icChaami = copulation, but, I, desire; 

        tvayaa + saha + su-madhyame = with you, along, oh, well-waisted one.

         

        "Oh, finely limbed lady, indulgers do not watch out for the time to 
conceive... oh, well-waisted one, I desire copulation with you... [1-48-18]

         

        Comment: Vividly: 'Oh, Ahalya, Brahma crafted you so well that all your 
limbs are symmetrically conjoined, so who in the universe will not yearn to 
have intercourse with one such like you... and on seeing your slender waist and 
thickset hips I wish to copulate with you now itself... and let there be no 
fear of safe period or unsafe period, for I do not wish to have any progeny of 
mine from you...

         

        19. muni + veSam + sahasraakSam = sage's, guise, of Thousand-eyed one; 

        vij~naaya= [though] knowing; 

        raghunandana = oh, Rahu's, delight Rama; 

        matim + cakaara + dur + medhaa = mind, made [inclined to have 
intercourse,] ill, advisedly; 

        deva + raja + kutuuhalaat= for god's, king's, impassion.

         

        "Oh, Raghu's delight Rama, though knowing him as the Thousand-eyed 
Indra in the guise [of her husband, Gautama,] she is inclined to have 
intercourse, ill-advisedly, but for the impassion of King of Gods... [1-48-19]

         

        Comment: Her thinking is: 'This is none but Indra in the guise of my 
husband, for my husband never asks me like this nor he violates times... I 
heard that Indra is seeking me for a long time... and when King of Gods 
expresses such a desire, it cannot be refused... let myself go...

         

        20. atha + abraviit + surashreSTham = then, said, to gods, best one; 

        kR^itaarthena + antara + atmanaa = fulfilled, means, in heart, of 
hearts; 

        kR^itaarthaa + asmi + sura shreSTha = fulfilled, purpose, I am, oh, 
best of gods; 

        gacCha + shiighram + itaH + prabho = get going, quickly, from here, oh, 
lord.

         

        "Then, she in her heart of hearts [felt] that her means are fulfilled 
and said this to that best god Indra, 'fulfilled I am with the purpose [of 
yours in making love to me,] oh, best of gods, get going from here quickly, oh, 
lord... [1-48-20]

         

        21. aatmaanam + maam + ca + deva + iisha = yourself, me, also, oh 
god's, ruler; 

        sarvadaa + rakSa + gautamaat = always, safeguard, from Gautama; 

        indraH + tu + prahasan + vaakyam = Indra but, smilingly, word; 

        ahalyaam + idam + abraviit = to Ahalya, this, said.

         

        "Oh, ruler of gods, always safeguard yourself and me from Sage 
Gautama...' [Thus Ahalya said to Indra.] But, Indra said this word to Ahalya, 
smilingly... [1-48-21]

         

        22. su + shroNi = oh, well-hipped lady; 

        parituSTaH + asmi = quite, delighted, I am; 

        gamiSyaami + yathaa + aagatam = i wish to go, as I have come;

        evam + sangamya + tu + tayaa = thus, copulated, but, with her; 

        niS+ cakraama + uTajaat + tataH = [Indra] out, came, from cottage, then.

         

        "Oh, well-hipped lady, quite delighted I am, here I go as I came...' 
thus on copulating with her, Indra then came out of the cottage... [1-48-22]

         

        Note: will continue my comments in next post.

        Dhasan

        Vasudevan m.g.
       






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Vivek Shankar Natarajan [mailto:nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx]
  Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 9:03 PM
  To: M.G.Vasudevan
  Subject: [Newsender-Check validity] - RE: [Newsender-Check validity] - Re: 
Query - Shrimad Ramayanam - Message is from an unknown sender - Message is from 
an unknown sender


  Dear Sri Vasudevan Swami Ji,

  I approach Shrimad Ramayanam as a child reading about his divine parents. In 
that spirit, Shri Sita Piratti is my divine mother and I enjoy her matru 
vatsalya. 

  Shri Rama Piran shows compassion towards everyone. The special compassion is 
reserved for two wowen who are tarred by fate or destiny- Ahalya and Kaikeyi. 
Shri Rama removes Ahalya's curse and get a pardon for his stepmother from 
Dasharatha when he descends from Heavens.Let us not forget that both Ahalya and 
Kaikeyi, though noble, had some transgressions.

  When that is the case, why is my mother Sita Piratti, the embodiment of all 
things good, pure and noble subjected to such a harsh language pre- agni 
pravesam. When Rama forgived everyone, why such a treatment for my Piratti 
twice(counting Uttara Ramacharitam)? It is in this spirit that I experience the 
lacerations.

  You are right. Maybe, I need to be more dispassionate.  But, would that mean 
I should not look at Sita as a mother and merely a Character in a tale? I do 
not know. 

  Our life is inexplicably intertwined with God- specially Mahalakshmi and 
Shriman Narayana of whose incarnations, Shri Sita Piratti and Shri Rama Piran, 
appear very approachable and lovable. We celebrate their birthday, homecoming, 
chant their names everyday, celebrate their celestial wedding and invoke their 
name for all good occasions. The title song for our marraiges is Sita Kalyanam. 
How do we get away from that special bonding that one enjoys with the divine 
couple who walked on earth? It is said that Ramayanam is Sitayaha Charitam 
Mahat. I understand that spirit. However, I am only seeing the troubles of 
Piratti. I want to see her sucess  and her joys. Since that is not visible, I 
am grieving and sad. 

  Your advise and suggestions will greatly benefit me- almost like a Sanjeevani.

  Adiyen

  Vivek

  "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
    Dear sri vivek sankar swamin,

    You wrote 'some of the episodes like the Agni Pravesam of Sita Piratti did 
leave a sense of grief and
    lacerations in my heart'. 
    I feel perhaps the details on sita's agni pravesam has created impact in 
your mind. 
    so if you can shoot out your questions, 'why it creates lacerations', i 
will be able to clarify. 

    or is it an emotional impact - for sometimes we have to be a little away 
and observe, then we are clear why such things?.

    hope you have articles of sri sadagopan iyengar and sudarsan swamins titled 
ordeal by fire. 

    also hope you have read my series on is she capable [to kill ravana on her 
own] or not.

    i have these in a collected form and can send you.   
    await your feedback before i give details.
    regards

    MGV

    CC: respected sadagopan swamin - thanks once again for referring sri 
vivek's mail to me. i will do to the best of my ability. sri vivek sankar has 
to give a little more time since these days i travel quite a lot. [in past 50 
days more than 25 days spent in travelling]  


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Dr. Sadagopan [mailto:yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 2:43 AM
    To: nvivekshankar
    Cc: M.G.Vasudevan
    Subject: Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam 


    Dear Sri Vivekshankar :

    This subject has been discussed number of times and google search
    would reveal a lot of them in their
    "scattered " mode .

    You do not need to feel any pain over this .Sri M.G.Vasudevan of
    Chennai can quickly help you on
    this matter.He is a serious student of
    Srimath RaamAyaNam .

    Thank you Sri MGV for helping
    this Raama BhakthA , when you have some time .
    V.Sadagopan

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "nvivekshankar" <nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx>
    To: "Dr. Sadagopan" <yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:45 PM
    Subject: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam


    Dear Sir,
    Namaskaram.
    I have been following your erudite and piety filled articles on
    various listserves such as Oppiliappan, Sriranga Sri and Bhakti list.
    I have been trying to read Srimad Ramayanam in my humble way. Though I
    have experienced profound bliss and a great sense of exhilaration in
    the entire exercise(continuing to do so), some of the episodes like
    the Agni Pravesam of Sita Piratti did leave a sense of grief and
    lacerations in my heart. Though it is a known Truth that this is an
    avataram and Sri Rama Piran as well as Sita PIratti were enacting a
    leela, ignorant souls such as yours truly are unable to reconcile the
    harsh episode. It may be due to the Matru Bhakti towards Sita Piratti.

    If you have a collection of articles on this very moving episode, it
    would be greatly benefecial as a healing balm. Any advise on how to
    get over the aching pain would be very useful. The reason I am asking
    this is most articles are scattered. Any suggestion would be welcome.
    Please advise me as to how to get over this pain.

    Sri SitaRama Jayam

    Vivek Shankar Natarajan
  Arise ,Awake and Stop not till the Goal is Reached !

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ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC 
DIVISION 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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