[Newsender-Check validity] - Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam - Message is from an unknown senderSrI: Dear Sriman Vasudevan : Thank you very much for your posting , which might be of wider interest to our groups . V.S ----- Original Message ----- From: M.G.Vasudevan To: Vivek Shankar Natarajan Cc: yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:29 AM Subject: RE: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam 1 From: Vivek Shankar Natarajan [nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx] [VSN] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:04 PM To: M.G.Vasudevan [MGV] Subject: Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam Dear Sri Vasudevan Swami Ji, VSN: I approach Shrimadh RaamaayaNam as a child reading about his divine parents. MGV: this attitude and its practice is excellent. One must know about his parents very well than anything else. That way to know 'raamaayaNam' thoroughly and understand its nuances is very good - not only from the 'puNyam' angle, but also to know about the day-to-day life's teachings available there - including modern 'management' points. VSN: In that spirit, Shri Sita Piratti is my divine mother and I enjoy her maathru vaathsalyam. MGV: in my recent writing on the krithi in aanandha bhairavi - hanumaan says 'maa thalli balamaa' - her 'strength' is her vaathsalyam for her children - later when hanumaan asks, 'please permit me to punish these raakshasis who tortured you' she said 'no' - that is her level of vaathsalyam- pardoning even those who caused torture and nuisance. So please continue to enjoy and realize her vaathsalyam in your life routines also. VSN: Shri Rama Piraan shows compassion towards everyone. The special compassion is reserved for two women who are tarred by fate or destiny - Ahalya and Kaikeyi. Shri Rama removes Ahalya's curse and gets a pardon for his stepmother from Dasharatha when he descends from Heavens. Let us not forget that both Ahalya and Kaikeyi, though noble, had some transgressions. MGV: on the ahalyaa episode there is a misconception among many that she was lying as a stone and raama touched that stone and she got her physical 'roopam'. That is not correct. As per vaalmeeki she was unseen, and in the ashes form and had air as food. See slokams and translation. 1-48-29, 30. tathaa + shaptvaa + ca + vai + shakram = thus, on cursing, also, indeed, Indra; bhaaryaam + api + ca+ shaptavaan = at wife, even, also, he cursed; iha + varSa + sahasraaNi = here, years, thousands; bahuuni + nivaSisyasi = many, you tarry; vaayu + bhakSaa + nir + aahaaraa = air, consuming, without, food; tapyantii + bhasma + shaayinii = searing [contritely,] on ashes, recumbent; a + dR^ishyaa + sarva+ bhuutaanaam = un, seen, all, by beings; aashrame + asmin + vaSisyasi = hermitage, in this one, you live on. "Thus on cursing Indra, he cursed even his wife also, indeed, saying 'you shall tarry here for many thousands of years, foodless and consuming air alone, you shall be lying down on ashes contritely, unseen by all beings you shall live on in hermitage... this one... [1-48-29, 30] 31. yadaa + tu + etat + vanam + ghoram = when, but, all this, forest, ghastly one; raamaH + dasharatha + aatmajaH = Rama, Dasharatha's, soul-born son; aagamiSyati + durdharSaH = arrives, unassailable one [Rama]; tadaa + puutaa + bhaviSyasi = then, purified, you will be. "When that unassailable Rama, the soul-born son of Dasharatha, arrives at this ghastly forest, [for it will be rendered thus, henceforth, along with you....] then you will be purified... [1-48-31] 32. tasya + aatithyena + dur + vR^itte = to him, by warm welcome, oh, ill-behaved woman; lobha + moha + vivarjitaa = greed, craze, divested; mat + sakaashe + mudaa + yuktaa = in my, proximity, rejoice, with; svam + vapuH + dhaarayiSyasi = your own, body, you wear [assume.] "And by welcoming him warmly, oh, ill-behaved woman, you will be divested with your greed and craze [in which you lingered so far...] then you will assume your own body and can be in my proximity, rejoicingly...' [Thus Sage Gautama cursed his wife Ahalya.] [1-48-32] http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga48/balasans48.htm MGV adds: Also on her transgression, it is she, who, willingly took on indhra when he wanted her and knowing fully well he is not her husband. So she had to be punished for that and hence the sage goutama did that curse. Of course indhran also had punishment. That is different. But on repenting and doing the tapas of living on air and in the ashes form, awaiting raamaa's arrival, she is purified, and now in exalted position [even though had the transgression] - as saptha kanyaa. Please see here those transgression slokams also. 14. hanta = what a pleasure; te + kathayiSyaami = to you, I narrate; shR^iNu + tattvena + raaghava = listen, in its reality, oh, Raghava; yasya + etat + aashrama + padam = whose, all this, hermitage, threshold; shaptam + kopaan + mahaa aatmanaa = cursed, resentfully, by great-souled one [Gautama]. "What a pleasure! I will narrate to you Raghava and listen to it in its reality... whose hermitage's threshold is all this and which great-souled one cursed this resentfully... [1-48-14] Comment: The pleasure expressed by Vishvamitra is for the arrival of time, for the event of Rama's grace, in releasing Ahalya from her cursed state. 15. gautamasya + narashreSTha = Gautama's, oh, best among men, Rama; puurvam + aasiit + maha aatmanaH = once, was there [belonged to,] of great-souled one; aashramaH + divya + sankaashaH = hermitage, heavenly, glistening; suraiH + api + supuujitaH = by gods, even, well reverenced. "Oh, Rama, the best among men, once this belonged to the great-souled Gautama, and since it had a heavenly glisten, even gods reverenced it well... [1-48-15] 16. saH + ca + atra + tapa + aatiSThat = he [Gautama,] there, in asceticism, sat tight; ahalyaa + sahitaH + puraa = Ahalya [his wife,] along with, earlier; varSa + puugaani + anekaani= year, cycles, numerous; raja + putra = oh, king's, son, [prince Rama]; mahaayashaH = highly renowned one [Gautama.] "Once that highly renowned Sage Gautama sat tight in his asceticism, in there along with his wife Ahalya, oh, prince Rama, for numerous cycle of years... [1-48-16] 17. tasya + antaram + viditvaa + tu = his [Gautama's] meantime, on knowing, but; sahasraakSaH + shacii + patiH = Thousand-eyed, Sachi's husband, Indra; muni + veSa + dharaH + bhuutvaa = sage's [Gautama's,] guise, wearing, becoming; ahalyaam + idam + abraviit = to Ahalya, this, said. "On knowing the meantime [of Gautama's departure from hermitage for a bath,] the Thousand-eyed husband of Shaci, namely Indra, wearing the guise of that sage Gautama and becoming such a sage, [and on arriving at Ahalya,] this he said to Ahalya... [1-48-17] 18. R^itu + kaalam + pratiikSante + na = seasonal [conceiving,] time, wait, watch out for; arthinaH + su + samaahite = indulgers, oh, finely limbed one; sangamam + tu + aham + icChaami = copulation, but, I, desire; tvayaa + saha + su-madhyame = with you, along, oh, well-waisted one. "Oh, finely limbed lady, indulgers do not watch out for the time to conceive... oh, well-waisted one, I desire copulation with you... [1-48-18] Comment: Vividly: 'Oh, Ahalya, Brahma crafted you so well that all your limbs are symmetrically conjoined, so who in the universe will not yearn to have intercourse with one such like you... and on seeing your slender waist and thickset hips I wish to copulate with you now itself... and let there be no fear of safe period or unsafe period, for I do not wish to have any progeny of mine from you... 19. muni + veSam + sahasraakSam = sage's, guise, of Thousand-eyed one; vij~naaya= [though] knowing; raghunandana = oh, Rahu's, delight Rama; matim + cakaara + dur + medhaa = mind, made [inclined to have intercourse,] ill, advisedly; deva + raja + kutuuhalaat= for god's, king's, impassion. "Oh, Raghu's delight Rama, though knowing him as the Thousand-eyed Indra in the guise [of her husband, Gautama,] she is inclined to have intercourse, ill-advisedly, but for the impassion of King of Gods... [1-48-19] Comment: Her thinking is: 'This is none but Indra in the guise of my husband, for my husband never asks me like this nor he violates times... I heard that Indra is seeking me for a long time... and when King of Gods expresses such a desire, it cannot be refused... let myself go... 20. atha + abraviit + surashreSTham = then, said, to gods, best one; kR^itaarthena + antara + atmanaa = fulfilled, means, in heart, of hearts; kR^itaarthaa + asmi + sura shreSTha = fulfilled, purpose, I am, oh, best of gods; gacCha + shiighram + itaH + prabho = get going, quickly, from here, oh, lord. "Then, she in her heart of hearts [felt] that her means are fulfilled and said this to that best god Indra, 'fulfilled I am with the purpose [of yours in making love to me,] oh, best of gods, get going from here quickly, oh, lord... [1-48-20] 21. aatmaanam + maam + ca + deva + iisha = yourself, me, also, oh god's, ruler; sarvadaa + rakSa + gautamaat = always, safeguard, from Gautama; indraH + tu + prahasan + vaakyam = Indra but, smilingly, word; ahalyaam + idam + abraviit = to Ahalya, this, said. "Oh, ruler of gods, always safeguard yourself and me from Sage Gautama...' [Thus Ahalya said to Indra.] But, Indra said this word to Ahalya, smilingly... [1-48-21] 22. su + shroNi = oh, well-hipped lady; parituSTaH + asmi = quite, delighted, I am; gamiSyaami + yathaa + aagatam = i wish to go, as I have come; evam + sangamya + tu + tayaa = thus, copulated, but, with her; niS+ cakraama + uTajaat + tataH = [Indra] out, came, from cottage, then. "Oh, well-hipped lady, quite delighted I am, here I go as I came...' thus on copulating with her, Indra then came out of the cottage... [1-48-22] Note: will continue my comments in next post. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Vivek Shankar Natarajan [mailto:nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 9:03 PM To: M.G.Vasudevan Subject: [Newsender-Check validity] - RE: [Newsender-Check validity] - Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam - Message is from an unknown sender - Message is from an unknown sender Dear Sri Vasudevan Swami Ji, I approach Shrimad Ramayanam as a child reading about his divine parents. In that spirit, Shri Sita Piratti is my divine mother and I enjoy her matru vatsalya. Shri Rama Piran shows compassion towards everyone. The special compassion is reserved for two wowen who are tarred by fate or destiny- Ahalya and Kaikeyi. Shri Rama removes Ahalya's curse and get a pardon for his stepmother from Dasharatha when he descends from Heavens.Let us not forget that both Ahalya and Kaikeyi, though noble, had some transgressions. When that is the case, why is my mother Sita Piratti, the embodiment of all things good, pure and noble subjected to such a harsh language pre- agni pravesam. When Rama forgived everyone, why such a treatment for my Piratti twice(counting Uttara Ramacharitam)? It is in this spirit that I experience the lacerations. You are right. Maybe, I need to be more dispassionate. But, would that mean I should not look at Sita as a mother and merely a Character in a tale? I do not know. Our life is inexplicably intertwined with God- specially Mahalakshmi and Shriman Narayana of whose incarnations, Shri Sita Piratti and Shri Rama Piran, appear very approachable and lovable. We celebrate their birthday, homecoming, chant their names everyday, celebrate their celestial wedding and invoke their name for all good occasions. The title song for our marraiges is Sita Kalyanam. How do we get away from that special bonding that one enjoys with the divine couple who walked on earth? It is said that Ramayanam is Sitayaha Charitam Mahat. I understand that spirit. However, I am only seeing the troubles of Piratti. I want to see her sucess and her joys. Since that is not visible, I am grieving and sad. Your advise and suggestions will greatly benefit me- almost like a Sanjeevani. Adiyen Vivek "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear sri vivek sankar swamin, You wrote 'some of the episodes like the Agni Pravesam of Sita Piratti did leave a sense of grief and lacerations in my heart'. I feel perhaps the details on sita's agni pravesam has created impact in your mind. so if you can shoot out your questions, 'why it creates lacerations', i will be able to clarify. or is it an emotional impact - for sometimes we have to be a little away and observe, then we are clear why such things?. hope you have articles of sri sadagopan iyengar and sudarsan swamins titled ordeal by fire. also hope you have read my series on is she capable [to kill ravana on her own] or not. i have these in a collected form and can send you. await your feedback before i give details. regards MGV CC: respected sadagopan swamin - thanks once again for referring sri vivek's mail to me. i will do to the best of my ability. sri vivek sankar has to give a little more time since these days i travel quite a lot. [in past 50 days more than 25 days spent in travelling] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dr. Sadagopan [mailto:yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 2:43 AM To: nvivekshankar Cc: M.G.Vasudevan Subject: Re: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam Dear Sri Vivekshankar : This subject has been discussed number of times and google search would reveal a lot of them in their "scattered " mode . You do not need to feel any pain over this .Sri M.G.Vasudevan of Chennai can quickly help you on this matter.He is a serious student of Srimath RaamAyaNam . Thank you Sri MGV for helping this Raama BhakthA , when you have some time . V.Sadagopan ----- Original Message ----- From: "nvivekshankar" <nvivekshankar@xxxxxxxxx> To: "Dr. Sadagopan" <yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: Query - Shrimad Ramayanam Dear Sir, Namaskaram. I have been following your erudite and piety filled articles on various listserves such as Oppiliappan, Sriranga Sri and Bhakti list. I have been trying to read Srimad Ramayanam in my humble way. Though I have experienced profound bliss and a great sense of exhilaration in the entire exercise(continuing to do so), some of the episodes like the Agni Pravesam of Sita Piratti did leave a sense of grief and lacerations in my heart. Though it is a known Truth that this is an avataram and Sri Rama Piran as well as Sita PIratti were enacting a leela, ignorant souls such as yours truly are unable to reconcile the harsh episode. It may be due to the Matru Bhakti towards Sita Piratti. If you have a collection of articles on this very moving episode, it would be greatly benefecial as a healing balm. Any advise on how to get over the aching pain would be very useful. The reason I am asking this is most articles are scattered. Any suggestion would be welcome. Please advise me as to how to get over this pain. Sri SitaRama Jayam Vivek Shankar Natarajan Arise ,Awake and Stop not till the Goal is Reached ! DISCLAIMER: This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Oppiliappan-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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