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Namaste,

I will be grateful to you if you could enlighten me on the following:

* What is the state of soul in the salvation?

* Where will be the location of soul, that has attained salvation?

Namaste
Ramesh


From: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ramanuja] Digest Number 736
Date: 16 Feb 2004 12:55:02 -0000


There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Digest Number 731 - Sandhya/Gayathri related
From: "apramanujam" <apramanujam@xxxx>
2. bhutanese rerfgee
From: bhuwan sharma <bhuwansharma_w@xxxx>
3. nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi-15
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
4. Re: Re: Dasa Avatara
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
5. AchArya Hrdhyam 156
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
6. Fw: Ten avathAram-s
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
7. geethA sAstramum nedunthAndaka sAstramum-14
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
8. Re: Sandhya/Gayathri related
From: "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k@xxxx>
9. Ten AvathArAs
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
10. AchArya Hrdhayam 157
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
11. Re: Re: Sandhya/Gayathri related
From: srinivasa chary <srinivasadasa@xxxx>
12. AchArya Hrdhayam 158
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 02:56:55 -0000
From: "apramanujam" <apramanujam@xxxx>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 731 - Sandhya/Gayathri related


Dear Bhagavathas,
I was really happy to see Smt.Sumitra's mail, as she has
written whatever I wanted to write. To add a few more lines to her
mail regarding the Anushtanam's followed by our poorvacharyars,
Our Ramanuja Sampradhayam emphasizes Seshathvam and
Parathanthriyam and also "Melaiyar seivangal". A Seshan cannot ask
questions nor he cannot do researches on the statements of his master.
(this is against our Sampradhayam). so all we need to do is to follow
simply.
Eventhough, I understand that it is difficult to follow(esp when
it comes to Sandhya) lets not find justifications for not doing as it
been rightly quoted in the mail "Avan manam kanni pOga nAm
kAranamAgalAmA?".If we start doing this way, then the future
generations will come with more questions such as "what is scientific
reason for doing Thiruvaradhanam, why should I go to temple as
Perumal is there in my heart as Antharyami etc. etc."
When our Ramanuja found it difficult for people like us(the
regular samsari) to do the three Yogas to attain our Beloved Lord and
made "Saranagathi" the best way, then why didn't he change other
karmas too? Are we that qualified to question them and change them?

Kshmikka prarthikkiren,

adiyen
ramanujam





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:21:04 -0800 (PST)
From: bhuwan sharma <bhuwansharma_w@xxxx>
Subject: bhutanese rerfgee

asmad guru vieow namaha
shreematey ramanujaya namaha
jay shreeman narayana
This is my first letter to you because i got link
just few days back.
I am a student of Bsc final eyer in Sikkim govt
College tadong.
Let me introduce to you.
My name is Bhuwan pyakurel,citizen of himalayan
kingdom Bhutan.Presently we are (certain portion of
citizen )spending the life of Refugee in Bhutanese
camp Jhapa nepal in estern nepal.

We are large nos of Ramanuj shree vishnabs in camps
plese do send such informations which i should send
to people in camps

jaya shreeman narayan


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:37:54 +0530
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
Subject: nAnmugan thiruvandhAdhi-15

Sri Parthasarathi thunai
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
Sri Vara Vara MunayE Namaha
Sri vAnAchala mahA munayE Namaha



Paasuram-8



"elaituNai mattrennenjE Esanaivendra

silaikoNda senkaNmAl sErA- kulaikoNda

eerain thalaiyAn elangaiyai eedazhiththa

kooranbha nallAl kurai"



Oh! Azhvar like a few who are adamant that we will eat only when cooked in our house or else will remain hungry throughout why are you acting foolishly saying "nAnunnaiyandri elEn kandAi nAraNanE" why don't you get your wishes satisfied with the help of others? Azhvar answers in this paasuram stating that no one other than the senkAnmAl (sriya:pathi Sriman Narayanan) can become our saviour. Moreover not stopping with being unable to help us they also prevent emperuman from coming to our help instructs azhvar to his mind.



(elaituNai mattru) More than understanding that emperuman is the only saviour it is more important to realize that others can never take that role. It is very important for a Srivaishnavaite to remain away from anyasEshatvam (servitude to anyone other than emperuman) "thiruvadi than nAmam marandhum puramthOzhA mAndhar". On the same lines, we have to get to our memory the aphorism of pillai ulagariyan in mumukshupadi, "adhilum anyasEshatvam kazhigaiyE pradhAnam"



(en nenjE) Oh! My mind you are suitable for me to give this divine rahasyam. You are not like the other's mind that has a number of confusions ("sanjalam he mana:")



Why do you say that others cannot be the saviour? That is because he alone is the paramAtma. But there are references that state even rudra to be the paramatma? Let's see how their paratvam remains continues azhvar,



(eesanai vendra silai koNda senkaNmAl) the emperuman holds the bow which was obtained on winning rudra. This particular incident is found in Sri Ramayana Baala kAndam where parasurAma narrates the incident to Sri Rama Piran. "Oh! Rama These two bows that belong to the devaloka where well created by vishvakarma. They are world famous, strong, marvellous, and powerful. Among these one was given to rudra who wanted to do tripuradahanam. Only that bow which was handy in burning the tripura was broken by you in the janaka sabhai. This powerful second bow was gifted to mahavishnu by the devas. This vishnu danus has equal power with the siva danus. At that time the devas wanted to test the power of Siva and Vishnu and hence they requested the same to brahma. That Brahma who was chief among the brahmajnAnis created a conflict between rudra and Vishnu. So a big war started between rudra and Vishnu. At that time the great bow of Siva that did many big jobs cracked a little just due to the 'hoonkAram' (a sign of anger) of Vishnu. And Siva fainted. Later due to the request of the rishis and devas Vishnu and Siva calmed down. At that time the rishis who visualised the cracking of Siva danus due to the anger of Vishnu realized the supremacy of Vishnu," says the Valmiki rAmAyana. This incident has been reminded by azhvar in the above line.



(eesanai vendra silai) So not emperuman his bow itself won over Rudra. That shows that even emperuman's divya ayudhAs (weapons) have power to win over other devatas. Then how can they be considered equal to emperuman? Or otherwise it can be read as "eesanai vendra senkaNmAl"



(silai koNda) Emperuman just held the bow that won over Rudra. It was not necessary for emperuman to put any other effort other than just holding the bow the rest was done by the bow itself. That shows that each and every thing belonging to emperuman has special powers. That even includes bhagavatas. So the anya devatas never come near bhagavatas or they show their special regards to the bhagavatas.



(senkaNmAl) Emperuman has reddish eyes that indicate his supremacy. "kapyAsam pundareekamEva aksheenee" (he has two eyes that are like the lotus that has blossomed due to the rising of the sun). Sem kaN mAl can also refer to Sri rAmapiran with reddish eyes that indicate his love to his devotees. "rAmO rAjeeva lOchana:" "rAma kamala patrAksha:" "Sem kaN" refers to wealth and love whereas "mAl" refers to supreme and lover.



(elai tuNai mattrennenjE eesani vendra silai koNda senkaNmAl) Will the emperuman who won over Rudra become the sarva rakshakan or will the defeated Rudra become the saviour?



(senkaNmAl sErA) Not joining the ghosti of rAma who is the incarnation of the pundareekAkshan, sarvEshvaran rAvana says,

"dvithA bhajjEyamapyEvam.....svabhAvO dhuradhikrama:" (Even if I am cut into two I will not prostrate anyone. This is a quality born with me and hence cannot be changed)

(senkaNmAl sErA) Even after seeing the beautiful lovable eyes of emperuman can anyone be without falling to his feet?

(eesanai vendra....senkaNmAl sErA) But when even Rudra who is a devotee of emperuman (anukoolan) suddenly due to the increase of thAmasa guna wages a war against emperuman what to say about a person who is always in the opposite army (prathikoolan). Who is that?



(kulaikoNda eerainthaliyAn) He is none other than ravana who has a bunch of 10 heads. "koththuthalaivan kudikeda thOndriya" says periyAzhvar (1-9-3)

(eerainthalaiyAn elangaiyai eedazhiththa) "lankAm rAvaNa pAlithAm" the lanka was protected by a great warrior, rAvana. But even that lanka was shattered by emperuman.



(kooranbhanallAl kurai elai tuNai) None other than rAmapiran who has a strong arrow in his hands can solve our problems and protect us.



PeriyavAchAn pillai's vyakhyanam



"EmperumAnAr sri pAdhaththai Ashsrayiththavargal achEtanamAna kriyA kalApaththinudaiya koormaiyai vishvashittirArgal. Chakravarththi thirumagan ambin koormaiyaiyAyittru thanjamAga ninaiththiruppar"



From the above it has been very clearly stated that for Srivaishnavas who
have fallen to the feet of Swamy emperumAnAr anya sEshatvam has to absolutely abandoned and only the ultimate faith in emperuman is essential.



Note: If we want to be in the emperumAnAr ghosti then it is absolutely essential for us to give up anya devata worship. At this point we have to get to memory the great kooraththAzhvan who gave up even darshan of namperumal to uphold his status as the disciple of swamy emperumAnAr. Being a disciple of that great acharya is more essential than even emperuman himself that has been shown by all our acharyas. Get to memory the acharya bhakthi of vaduga Nambi. So it is our prime duty to follow them and get uplifted.



Saint thyagaraja, in one of his krithis beautifully says, "nithichAla sukamA rAma sannithi sEva sukama" What is crores of wealth going to grant us will it ever equal what the service to emperuman will actually grant us?



(To be continued)



Azhvar emperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharaNam



Adiyen ramanuja dAsee
Sumithra Varadarajan
















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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:07:05 +0530
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Dasa Avatara

SrimathE rAmAnujaya Namaha
Dear Bhagavatas,

Buddha avataram is surely a avatharam of perumal but it has been disregarded by our acharyas (refer Sri Parasara bhattar's bhagavat guna darpanam-commentary to Vishnu sahasranAma bhAsyam) since that avatharam was mainly done to side track the evil people who did all wrong things with the help of the vedas. In Vishnu sahasranAmam the thirunAmas from 787-810 (durArihA to mahAkartha:) talk about buddhAvatara only. This buddha avathara is quite different from goutama buddha who is the founder of Buddism. Balarama avatara ofcourse is among the 10 avataras without any doubt and that has been very clearly stated by the azhvars as already shown by Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan and Sri Padmanabhan.

Alwar emperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharaNam
Adiyen ramanuja dAsee
Sumithra Varadarajan

----- Original Message -----
From: Lakshmi Narasimhan
To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: [ramanuja] Re: Dasa Avatara


Asmad Gurubhyo Namaha
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
Dear Shriman Soundararajan,
I am sharing what I know on this subject. I apologize in case of
mistakes.

Some avathaaraas are not much glorified by Azhwars. Those are
Matsya, Koorma, Parasurama, Balarama and Kalki. Periyazhwar did
summarize all these dasaavataras though:
"Thenudaya meenamaai, aamayaai, enamaai, ariyaai, kuralaai,
moondruruviraamanaai, kannanaai, kalkiyai mudippan kovil..."

Parasurama has been in fact depicted as an angry person from whom
Shri Rama grabbed the Dhanus and along with it his anger & thapas.
As Parasurama and Balarama are more of aavesa avathaarams, they
aren't glorified to much extent. But there are references to these
in quite a few pasurams of azhwars.

Choodikkoduttha chudarkkodi says, "Baladevarkkor
keezhkkandrai", "semporkazhal adi selva baladeva" etc.

Thiru Arangatthamudhanaar (author of Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi) says:
"Kokkula mannarai moovezhukaal, orr koor mazhuvaal, pokkiya devanai
pottrum punidhan" i.e Ramanuja worshipped that lord who destroyed 21
generations of the kshatriyas with a sharp axe - Parasurama.

Regarding buddha, few of our scholars say that it was Shriman
Narayana who came as him to spread the naasthika matham to maintain
a balance. I am not sure whether this is authentic. Even if this is
true, it is definitely not a part of the 10 avataarams. It would be
more of a side track like Hayagreeva, Hamsa avataarams.

I am sure other learned scholars might come up with more information.

Sarva aparaadhaan kshamasva

Azhwaar Emperumaanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

adiyen,
Ramanuja Dasan

--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vimalkumar ranganathan
<panardasan@xxxx> wrote:
> Sri:
>
> Respected SriVaishnavAs,
>
> Many fora, many discussions on this topic. I want to encapsulate
them all in a single mail. According to Sri Vaishnavism, the 10
AvatArAs of Lord Sriman Narayana are:
>
> 1) Matsya
> 2) kUrma
> 3) VarAhA
> 4) Nrsimha
> 5) vAmanA
> 6) parasurAmA
> 7) rAmA
> 8) balarAmA
> 9) KrSnA
> 10) KalkI.
>
> Has balarAmA been glorified by the AzhwArs or the AzAryAs??
>
> And one more, the poet Jayadeva calls Buddha as an avataara, but
our AzhwArs tear Buddha and his philosophy to pieces. Is the Buddha
referred by JayadeEvA the same as "Adhi Buddha" or does Jayadeva
glorify Gautama Buddha himself?? And what is the stand of our
Sampradayam with respect to Buddha??
>
> Dasan,
> Kidambi Soundararajan.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:44:56 +0530
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
Subject: AchArya Hrdhyam 156

AchArya Hrdhyam suthram 224
The Sixth Ten
Lord's Divine Feet is the means for one and all.

"ennaiyum, yAvarkum surarkAi adiyEr vAzhmin enRu karuNaiyAlEa sarva lOga bhUdhEbya: enRavai kadalOsaiyum kazhuthukku mElumAgAmAl upAyathvam kalvettAkkugiRa charaNyan..."


Summary: When the Lord did not show Himself in person to AzhwAr, emissaries were sent " inform Him, that here is a woman left out by Him".

The refuge is the feet of Lord in "thiru viNNagaram". There is no other refuge.

The refuge for the dhEvA-clans in their world is also HIm.

Those who surrender unto His feet, without expecting anything in return but Him, are out of His Grace blessed by Him..

It is highlighted He is the refuge for one and all.

He is the refuge for nithya-sUrigaL, for souls like us in this world and for animals. Even for those who expect something other than Him, He is refuge.

Thus, He is the refuge for one and all, for all purposes. He is in "the thiru-malA" -Lord thiru-vEnkatamudaiyAn -- The means for one and all.

pAsuram-s: The Lord did not show Himself in person immediately to AzhwAr. The need for sending mesengers arose. Various types of messengers including birds were sent to the Lord and to say

" Here is also a person who is to be rescued by You?".
"yEaru sevaganArku ennaiyum vuLaL enmingaLEA" 6-1-11


the Lord of thiru-viNNagar is the refuge for all
"thiru-viNNagar sEarndha pirAn varamkoL pAdham allAl illai,yAvarkkum vaN charaNEA" 6-3-7 thiru voi mozhi;


He rescues the dhEva clans by vanqusihing the demons

"vaN charaN surarkkAi asurarku venkURRamum Ai" thiru voi mozhi 6-3-8;


The Lord showers His Grace to those who surrender totally at His divine feet. They are blessed by Him.

"adikkEzh amarndhu pugundhu adiyEr vAzhmin enRu aruL kodukkum" thiru voi mozhi 6-10-11;

Is He refuge only for those in this worlds?
Even for the dhEvAs in their world He is the refuge
"vAnavar kOnodum namanRezhum thiru vEnkatam' thiru voi mozhi 3-3-7;

Is He refuge only for those who surrender to Him completely.
No. He is approached even by those who expect other things from HIm
"ezhuvAr, vidai koLvAr, En thuzhAzhAn adiyEA vazhuvAi vagai ninaindhu vaigal thozhuvAr" mudhal thiruvandhAdhi 26.
Is He not refuge for animal class.
Yes! of course
"pOdharindhu vAnarangal" iraNdAm thiruvandhAdhi 72 and " kaNdu vaNangum kaLiur" mUnRAm thiruvandhAdhi 70 go to confirm this point.

Thus Lord thiru-vEnkatamudaiyAn is the refuge for one and all; for all purposes. This is indelibly exhibited conspicuously in thiruvEnkatam--> kal vettAkkugiRa charaNyan.

(to be continued)
vanamamalai padmanabhan











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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:45:13 +0530
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
Subject: Fw: Ten avathAram-s


----- Original Message -----
From: nsp
To: oppiliappan
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:33 PM
Subject: Ten avathAram-s


The ten avathArA-s have been precisely spelt out by sri kaliyan in his periya thiru mozhi

".mEnodu Amai kEzhal ari kuRaLAi, munnum irAmanAi, thAnAi, pinnum irAmanAi, dhAmodharanAi kaRkiyum AnAn thannai.." periya thiru mozhi 8-8-10

mEnOdu=matsyam; Amai==kUrmam;
kEzhal=varAham; ari=narasimham;
kuRaL=vAmanam; munnum irAman=parasu rAman
thAnAi=chakravarthith thirumagan;pinnum irAmanAi=bala rAman
dhAmOdharan=krishNan;=kaRki-kalki.

Another reference to sri bala rAmar
nAchiyAr thiru mozhi

"patti mEindhOr kAr yEAru pala dhEvaRku Or kEzh kanRAi.." nAchiyAr thiru mozhi 14-1.

Lord krishNA behaved in a obedient manner towards His elder brother sri bala rAmar.

dhAsan
vanamamalai padmanabhan


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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:02:33 +0530
From: "Sumithra Varadarajan" <sumivaradan@xxxx>
Subject: geethA sAstramum nedunthAndaka sAstramum-14

Sri Parthasarathi thunai

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Sri Vara Vara munayE Namaha

Sri vAnAchala mahA munayE Namaha



(VilakkoliyAi) Similar to the light of a lamp removing the outside darkness, emperuman through the sastras destroys all our ignorance (inside darkness, agnAnam). He with ultimate grace has bestowed the sAstras for the upliftment of poor souls like us ("vedAntha krith vEda vidEva chAham").



BrihadAranya upanishad says, "AthmAvA arE drushtavya: srOthavya: mandhavya: nidhithyAsithavya:" That is first stage is the learning about the athma through listening to what the sastras say. Then a person starts to analyse and think about it. When we feel that the thought is good to us we start to meditate on the divine qualities of the athma and finally we attain the athma sAkshAtkaram. But in the above upanishadic verse, the order is a little different. It first says drushtavya: that is to see or obtain athma sAkshAtkaram. Why? It is to increase our interest to know. When I say the athma attains athma sAkshAtkaram the next question will be how? Then the sruthi answers, first learn about it, then do mananam (thinking) then meditate and finally you will visualise. Such rearranging due to the importance of the meaning are seen in a few other places also.



In one of his periya thirumozhi paasuram, thirumangai azhvar says "vAthamAmagan markadam vilangu maRRorjAdhi" Here actually the paasuram should be read in the reverse order. Rama showered his grace on a person who did not belong to his clan (maRRorjAdhi), that to not even a man but an animal (vilangu), even among the animals it is not a king animal but a monkey (markadam) not an ordinary monkey but son of vayu (vAthamAmagan). Here immediately all of us will ask, "How is being the son of vayu be treated as lower than an ordinary monkey?" Yes it is low because the other ordinary monkeys will consider themselves to be inferior but due to the greatness of the birth surely ego and pride, our prime enemies will creep in. Where there is ego and pride (ahankAram and mamakAram) emperuman never goes near them. Only when we leave our self-effort emperuman showers his grace on us. ("erukaiyum vittEnO drowpathiyai pOlE"- thirukkoloor ammal varthai)



In bhagavad geetha, slokas 55,56,57and 58 of chapter 2 are similarly misarranged. The ordering according to the meaning should be 58,55,56,57. These were given to prove that at times rearranging for proper understanding of the meaning is not wrong. Coming back to our upanishadic verse, the ordering for understanding the meaning properly should be "srOthavya: mandhavya: nidhithyAsithavya: drushtavya:" The same has been translated by thirumangai azhvar in his thirunedunthAndaka paasuram. "vilakkoliyAi mulaiththu ezhundha thingalthAnAi"

vilakkoliyAi - srOthavya:

mulaiththu - mandhavya:

ezhundha - nidhithyAsithavya:

thingal thAnAi - drushtavya:



Our dear geethAcharya puts the same in his words as:

"sruthivipradhipannA tE yathA stAsyathi nishchalA I

samAdhA achalA buddhi: tathA yOga mavApsyasi II" (2-53)



SruthivipradhipannA - due to those specially understood meanings listening to me (sruthi-listening, sravanam) - "vilakkoliyAi" -"srOthavya:"

achalA tE buddhi: - your knowledge will get deep rooted (orupadipatta jnAnam) - "mulaiththu" - "mandhavya:"

samAdhow yathA nischala stAsyathi - when that leads to deep meditation - "ezhundha" - "nidhithyAsithavya:"

tathA yOgam avApsyasi - you will attain athma sAkshAtkAram - "thingal thAnAi" - "drushtavya:"



Here azhvar explains with moon as the example. First while the moon is seen on top of a mountain (mulaiththu) it is brighter than a normal lamplight (vilakkoli). So just listening removes a little of darkness and then when we think about it, it gives more light. Further as the moon rises to the sky (ezhundha) it spreads the light to a larger area so more darkness is removed similarly when we start meditating without any stop on the same subject as shown by the sastras all the darkness inside us gradually vanish and finally we are able to visualise the athma that is athma sAkshAtkAram (thingal thAnAi).



(To be continued)



Azhvar EmperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharanam



Adiyen ramanuja dAsee

Sumithra Varadarajan































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:55:06 -0000
From: "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k@xxxx>
Subject: Re: Sandhya/Gayathri related

Dear Sri Venkatesan,
Kindly clarify whether the life incident of bhattar is quoted as an
injunction to TK VaishNavas for the non-performance of sandhya?
Regular performance of nityakarmas are typically ordained by dharma
sUtras of one's vedic affiliation (it may appear in grhya sutras in
some cases; smrti digests elaborate the dharma sUtras).

From my limited understanding rAmAnujAchArya never attempted to
tamper the dharma sUtras, veda pramANas and the associated
paraphernalia (and even sanctions sacrifice of goat in the context
of yAgas in his gIta bhAshya).

If I am right, the ashtAdasha bheda nirNaya discusses about
nithyakarmas - "whether an evolved sould will go to hell if he
doesn't perform them": yes -> vadakalai; no -> thenkalai, however
the evolved soul should continue to do them as an example for others.
This is a non question for unevolved souls!

Accept my apologies if I've commited any mistakes or was offensive.

Regards,
Kasturi Rangan

--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TCA Venkatesan <vtca@xxxx> wrote:
> Sri:
> Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:
>
> Dear Sri Ramachandran,
>
> While it is good to see your enthusiasm for performing
> sandhyavandanam, the following lines are puzzling.
>
> > It is therefore, extremely critical and mandatory
> > for the Sandhya to be performed without fail. It
> > is quite surprising that Shri Vishnu has
> > questioned the efficacy of Sandhya and perhaps
> > thinks of replacing the Sandhya with 'namaa'
> > chanting. Come what may, the Sandhya is a nitya
> > karma ordained by the Vedas and no one is excused.
> > Dilution of Sandhya requirements are therefore out
> > of question. One may dilute all other rituals,
> > worship etc. but not the Sandhya.
>
> Is it your stand or our pUrvAchAryas stand that
> other rituals and even worship can be 'diluted'
> but not the sandhyavandanam. Is there any pramANam
> for this stance?
>
> Of course, the sastras themselves excuse many from
> performing the sandhya. So, how is that you say that
> no one is excused? Or do you mean only those that
> are eligible for it.
>
> Certainly our acharyas did not give up their nithya
> karmas, but only so as to not set the wrong example
> for those who are at the first steps. However, there
> are two things here. I don't think they saw it as a
> mandatory act which is an unforgivable sin when
> missed, as you are stating ; and they only saw
> it as a kainkaryam to the Lord and not for their
> personal benefits. And again, I believe their stress
> was on all nithya karmas and not just the sandhya
> alone.
>
> Guru Paramapara records that Bhattar refused to
> stop his fan service to the Lord for the sake
> of doing sandhyavandanam.
>
> Pillai Lokacharyar includes the performance of all
> nithya karmas as one of the sins that the Lord
> wipes out in the "sarva pApEbhyO" of the Charama
> shloka.
>
> Kindly clarify.
>
> adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:23:09 +0530
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
Subject: Ten AvathArAs

Dear srEvaishNavites,

It is true that bhudhAvathArA is not an incarnation. However, as pointed out, it may be a small act by the Lord Himself without being an avathAram in particular.
The following is reference to this in thiru-voi-mozhi

"kaLLa vEdathai koNdu pOi puram pukkavArum, kalandhu asurarai bhEdham seidhittu vuyir vuNda upAyangaLum...' 5-10-4.

The mention in Edu, irupathi nAlAyirappadi and onbadhAyirappadi -->' bhaudhAvathAra vrudhAntham ennai naliyA ninRadhu engiRAr"

It was already mentioned in the earlier messages that;

a BuddhAvatharan who came to mislead the asurans with false teachings, this Buddha was not the same Buddha . I think this is right.
dhasan
vanamamalai padmanabhan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:21:14 +0530
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
Subject: AchArya Hrdhayam 157

AchArya Hrdhyam suthram 224
The Sixth Ten Contd.
You but nobody else is my refuge- An impact of extreme devotion.

"AgnAna asakthi yAdhAthmaya gnAnangaL aLavAl anRikkEa anguRREan ennAn puNarAi ennumpadi meyyamar bhakthi bhUma balamAgavum ananya gadhithvamudaiya thamkku..."


Summary: It was seen in the earlier posting that AzhwAr declares the Lord as the means and also surrenders at His divine feet. Is it becuase AzhwAr does not have the knowledge of other means? Or is it beacuse AzhwAr is incapable of executing other means? Or is it because AzhwAr does realises that the nature of the soul is to surrender unto Him and it does not behove the soul to consider other means?

These apart, AzhwAr mentions that " i am a person who has not followed any means. Hence, you have to be my means and rescue me. I do not have anyone else to salvage me. Please, see to it that I reach your divine feet" is AzhwAr's plea. The immense affection and love makes AzhwAr think in these terms. Hence, it is to be understood that apart from the facts mentioned above, the effect of extreme devotion- migundha bhakthi- makes AzhwAr to think about the Lord Almighty and only Him.

pAsuram-s:
"angutREAn allEAn, ingutREAn allEAn, unnaik kANum avAvil vEZhndhu nAn engutrEAnum allEAn.." --thiru voi mozhi 5-7-1--> I have neither performed any formal means nor have put on efforts to reach You; However, my yearnings and longings to meet you is on but without any strength on my part--is AzhwAr's declaration.

"en nAn seigEAn yArEA kaLai kaN, unnAl allAl yAvarAlum, voNRum kuRai vEANdEAn" thiru -voi mozhi 5-8-3--> No efforts or credit on my part to reach on my part;You are the one to salvage me.

"pUvAr kazhalgaL, aru vinaiyEAn, porundhumARu puNarAyEA" thiru voi mzohi 6-10-4-->
You have to lead me to a stage where I reach your divine feet.

"mei amar kAdhal" --> thiru voi mozhi 6-8-2--> This stand by AzhwAr is due to extreme devotion apart from other things mentioned hereinabove-mighundha bhakthi.

(to be continued)
vanamamalai padmanabhan









(to be continued)
vanamamalai padmanabhan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:51:57 -0800 (PST)
From: srinivasa chary <srinivasadasa@xxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Sandhya/Gayathri related

Dear Sri Kasturi Rangan,
This question appears to me as an unjustified
conclusion from Sriman Venkatesan's post. To me it
appears more like a caution against forgetting the
more imporatant issue of Bhagavadkainkaryam (in Sri
Ramanuja Sampradayam) in our enthusiasm for
"Sandhyavandanam". Probably this may lead us in to
more controversial corridors. What is the significance
of "Nityakarmas" for any vedantic tradition in pursuit
of "Moksha"? While there is general agreement on
necessity of "Nityakarmas" as ordained by
Dharmasastras across wide spectrum of vedantic
traditions, does any tradition attribute more
importance to these as an aid to attainment of
"Moksha"? Isn't it necessary that the "Nityakarmas"
should be put in their proper perspective, instead of
treating them as a "be-all-and-end-all" for mumukhu as
Sri Ramachandran seems to imply?
Kindly note that these points are raised more
with an intention to learn than to question. Forgive
me for any misinterpretation.
Regards,
Srinivasadasa
--- amshuman_k <amshuman_k@xxxx> wrote:
> Dear Sri Venkatesan,
> Kindly clarify whether the life incident of bhattar
> is quoted as an
> injunction to TK VaishNavas for the non-performance
> of sandhya?
> Regular performance of nityakarmas are typically
> ordained by dharma
> sUtras of one's vedic affiliation (it may appear in
> grhya sutras in
> some cases; smrti digests elaborate the dharma
> sUtras).
>
> From my limited understanding rAmAnujAchArya never
> attempted to
> tamper the dharma sUtras, veda pramANas and the
> associated
> paraphernalia (and even sanctions sacrifice of goat
> in the context
> of yAgas in his gIta bhAshya).
>
> If I am right, the ashtAdasha bheda nirNaya
> discusses about
> nithyakarmas - "whether an evolved sould will go to
> hell if he
> doesn't perform them": yes -> vadakalai; no ->
> thenkalai, however
> the evolved soul should continue to do them as an
> example for others.
> This is a non question for unevolved souls!
>
> Accept my apologies if I've commited any mistakes or
> was offensive.
>
> Regards,
> Kasturi Rangan
>
> --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, TCA Venkatesan
> <vtca@xxxx> wrote:
> > Sri:
> > Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:
> >
> > Dear Sri Ramachandran,
> >
> > While it is good to see your enthusiasm for
> performing
> > sandhyavandanam, the following lines are puzzling.
> >
> > > It is therefore, extremely critical and
> mandatory
> > > for the Sandhya to be performed without fail. It
>
> > > is quite surprising that Shri Vishnu has
> > > questioned the efficacy of Sandhya and perhaps
> > > thinks of replacing the Sandhya with 'namaa'
> > > chanting. Come what may, the Sandhya is a nitya
> > > karma ordained by the Vedas and no one is
> excused.
> > > Dilution of Sandhya requirements are therefore
> out
> > > of question. One may dilute all other rituals,
> > > worship etc. but not the Sandhya.
> >
> > Is it your stand or our pUrvAchAryas stand that
> > other rituals and even worship can be 'diluted'
> > but not the sandhyavandanam. Is there any pramANam
> > for this stance?
> >
> > Of course, the sastras themselves excuse many from
>
> > performing the sandhya. So, how is that you say
> that
> > no one is excused? Or do you mean only those that
> > are eligible for it.
> >
> > Certainly our acharyas did not give up their
> nithya
> > karmas, but only so as to not set the wrong
> example
> > for those who are at the first steps. However,
> there
> > are two things here. I don't think they saw it as
> a
> > mandatory act which is an unforgivable sin when
> > missed, as you are stating ; and they only saw
> > it as a kainkaryam to the Lord and not for their
> > personal benefits. And again, I believe their
> stress
> > was on all nithya karmas and not just the sandhya
> > alone.
> >
> > Guru Paramapara records that Bhattar refused to
> > stop his fan service to the Lord for the sake
> > of doing sandhyavandanam.
> >
> > Pillai Lokacharyar includes the performance of all
> > nithya karmas as one of the sins that the Lord
> > wipes out in the "sarva pApEbhyO" of the Charama
> > shloka.
> >
> > Kindly clarify.
> >
> > adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> online.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:44:13 +0530
From: nsp <aazhwar@xxxx>
Subject: AchArya Hrdhayam 158


AchArya Hrdhyam suthram 224
The Sixth Ten Contd.
AzhwAr's indifference -Removed by the Lord Himself.
"pAdhamEA charaNAkka avaiyEA shEmang koNdu yEAka sindhaiyarAi thriyakkugaLaiyittu swAbiprAyathai nivEadhithu viLamba rOsham upAyathAlEa azhiya........"

Summary: It was seen in the fifth ten that He has bequeathed His divine feet as the means to reach Him. Accordingly, AzhwAr acknowledged and followed this meticulously. However, since the Lord did not appear forthwith, AzhwAr sent messengers thorugh various birds etc. to inform the Lord that 'here is a woman waiting for You and to be rescued by You alone" despite failing health.

Despite this, the Lord Almighty did not present Himself immediately which resulted in AzhwAr becoming indifferent even after the Lord's presence. This indifference by AzhwAr facing the other side-praNaya rOsham - was destroyed by the Lord Himself by His holy feet.


pAsuram-s:
The Lord bequeathed His divine feet as the means
"ARu enakku, nin pAdhamEa charaNAgath thandozhindhAi" thiru voi mozhi 5-7-10;

AzhwAr accepted this completely

"kazhalgaL avaiyEA charaNAgak koNda kurugur satakOpan" thiru voi mozhi 5-8-11;

AzhwAr sent messengers to inform the Lord " here is a woman expecting You, affected by Your Love and affection"

The thiru voi mozhi 6-1 --vagal pUngazhivAi :

sending --> kurugu, nArAi, puLLinagaL, annangaL, kuyilgaL,kiLi, vandugaL as emissaries reflecting the role of AchAryan in making the Lord and the soul getting together.

The delay of the Lord resulted in indifference and praNaya rOsham of AzhwAr.

This is explained in the next thriu-voi-mozhi "minnidai madavArgaL' 6-2;
What are these?
"pOgu nambE" --> 6-2-1--> Get away;
"pOyirundhu un puLLuvam aRiyAdhavarku vurai nambE" 6-2-3--> Go and tell your falsehood to people who do not know about You. "ninmalA nediyAi vunakkEalum, pizhai pizhaiyEa" --> thiru voi mozhi 6-2-7--> You may be the Great one but a mistake is a mistake.

How was this indifference removed.
"azhithAi vun thiru adiyAl" --> 6-2-9--> The Divine Feet indicating Him and His beautiful form removed these negative acts and made AzhwAr to conciliate and settle down with Him.

(to be continued)
vanamamalai padmanabhan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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