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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00048 Jul 2003

 
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Dear Shri Kasturi Rangan,
First of all, I would like to make it crystal clear that I don't have even 1% 
of the knowledge required to answer your questions. Even Thiruvalluvar had 
written that Kelvi (questioning) is the best way to attain gnAnam. Lord Krishna 
says that one has to humby submit to a qualified Guru and seek knowledge from 
him by asking him questions (Tad viddhi prani pAtena....), infact the whole of 
Bhagavad Gita is nothing but a long question answer session!! Therefore, kindly 
allow me to laudyou for the wonderful questions.
Like I'd written earlier, I can't answer your questions, but I can offer some 
suggestions, my own humble opinions. 
 
* You'd written about Vedas and Upanishads, but I guess you might be awarethat 
most of the Vedas are either lost or remain unattained:
 

eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura
sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot

sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu

 

?Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into100 
sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 
divisions.?

Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas 
and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 
Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 
divisions.

At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. 
We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which 
constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedas.

This is where the beauty and the greatness of the AzhwArs is realized. Theyhave 
given us the essence of all the Shrutis and the Smrtis in their wonderfuls 
works, collectively known as the Divya Prabandhams. Any knowledge that is 
attained in partiality is not complete. I therefore humbly suggest to have 
complete faith in the 4000. To me personally, anything else fades in comparison 
to the 4000, beyond doubt. 

Please try to have faith on the works of "Vedam Thamizh-seidha MARan" and his 
"colleagues" (if I may).

* Having faith is very important, but even gaining faith is not easy. I can't 
remember the verse which says that it is very very difficult to get complete 
faith on the lotus feet of the Lord. True, Nirhetuka Kripa is important, but 
why can't you take your joining this forum itself where you might get knowledge 
is due to the Nirhetuka Kripa of the lord?? 
 
Krishna says, "Janme karma ca me divyam evam yo veti tattvatah |
tyaktvA deham puNar janma na iti mAm eti so arjuna ||"
  
which means that if one knows or learns about the past times of the Lord, he is 
sure to attain Moksha. What does it mean?? Knowing more about Perumal,the 
AzhwArs and the AchAryAs will ensure one's path to Vaikuntha.
 
* Regarding Sudras and women not being able to learn the vedAs, if one is 
interested enough to learn the vedas, he should also be interested in 
understanding the knowledge associated with it. The most fundamental knowledge 
isthat one is born or a shudra or a woman in just this lifetime. One gets the 
body of a Shudra, a woman, a kshatriya, a cow, or whatever based on his 
previous karma. If a person born in a Shudra body or a woman desires to learn 
the Vedas very sincerely, the Lord will make sure that in his/her next birth, 
he/she will be born a brahmana. Even better, there is no point in learning the 
vedas and upanishads if one surrenders to the Lord.  
 
* nammAzhwAr was not a brahmana by birth, Tirumangai Mannan was a kaLLar, pAnar 
was born in a caste even lower than the catur varnas. They are the stalwarts of 
Vaishnavism. One of rAmAnujA's gurus, Tirukachchi nambigaL was not a brahmin. 
PiLLai urangAvizhi dAsar, one of rAmAnujA's dear most disciples was not a 
brahmin. 
In kaliyuga, it is really superficial to talk about brahmin-nonbrahmin issues, 
even Lord Krishna in many of his pastimes tore the exclusivity of the Brahmins. 
Lord gave moksha even to asurAs!!
 
* Regarding queer practices, there is nothing that is happening today that has 
not happened earlier. There is mentioning of queer practices even in Srimad 
BhAgavatham, but I personally feel it is totally beyond our goal, and not our 
aim. Sage Kapila talks about atheism (sAnkhya yOgA), and that is a part of 
Hinduism too!! Does it mean we should follow atheism?? No. "Hinduism" in its 
broader sense encompasses all sorts of philosophies, atheism, theism, 
monotheism, etc... we are not Hindus. We are SriVaishnavas, rather, aspiring 
SriVaishnavas.
 
* If faith is what the problem is, you are not alone, faith can be achievedonly 
by the association of the VaishnavAs, engaging your mind more on the leelas of 
the Lord, the AzhwArs and the AchAryas. If there is a whole sampradayam that is 
blessed with super intelligent and empowered souls in its lineage, it 
definitely should have some substance associated with it - in themost 
scientific or rational of the views, thats how I look at it.
 
I seek your pardon if I had said anything unpalatable or lacking sense.
 
AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLe saranam. 
 
dasan,
Kidambi Soundararajan.
 



amshuman_k <amshuman_k@xxxx> wrote:
Dear Shri nappinnai_nc, 
Thank you for your reply (and encouragement)! Let me summarize your 
answers and correct me if I am wrong.

1. Most of the doubts will vanish with Lord's Krpaa & (right 
association (sat-sangam/bhaagavata sangam??) is required for that 
though.

2. The chatur-vedas in sanskrit are actually not all that 
important :)!!! We have to accept them only to the extent that it 
doesn't contradict our VishishThadvaita philosophy or prabandham.

3. The reason for Vedas are actually to inculcate 
daasatvam/seshatvam. Since shudras & women already have it, they 
don't need to study Vedas.

we can safely eliminate #1, as I am a "lost soul" without Lord's 
mercy :)

I have to disagree with #2. I am aware that TK sampradayam gives 
equal importance if not more to NDP and considers it on par with 
Shruthi. However Shruthi is considered to be the supreme authority 
and Shri Ramanujacharya with considerable effort "proves" that our 
philosophy is the right interpretation of "Shruthi" and traces 
purvacharyas like Baudhayana, Bharuchi, Tanka etc. Almost everybody 
Shaivas/Shakthas etc go to various lengths (in the respective 
sectarian Puranas) to trace their affiliation with Vedic literature. 
However reality is indeed different. The "Karma Kaandam" deals with 
Mantrams attributed to "minor devataas" and "Gnyaana kaandam" deals 
with unspecified/unnamed Brahman. Exactly because of this, we can 
foist our own interpretations on Upanishads and declare anything - 
Supposedly Appayya deekshithar's version of Vishisthadvaita has Rudra-
shiva as the supreme Brahman! 

I'll defer my comments on #3. A general rejoinder though - What about 
women & shudras who don't have "daasatvam"? Should they be taught 
Vedas to cultivate it??? :)

KK




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