Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Sri Venkatesh, > Can you please clarify this. Is there an > independence attributed on the > part of the jeevAthmAs, who are originally slaves in > nature. I don't think > our AzhwArs have, in any place, spoken about this > jeevaswAthanthryam. What > I understood from these lines of yours is that the > jeevAthmA is given a > choice to select. This means that there is some > swAthanthriyam on the part > of jeevAthmA. How is that possible? Remember, Sri > nammAzhwAr says, "en > uNarvinuLLE irutthinEn". This looks like AzhwAr did > something to bring Him > in his thoughts. But immediately he says, "adhuvum > avanadhinnaruLE". So > every action of jeevAthmA is only because of > emberumAn's sankalpam. So how > is it that the jeevAthmA gets a choice and hence > freedom?. Please clarify Let me explain this to the best of my knowledge. If there are errors the learned members may please correct me. Emperuman has two vibhutis the leela vibhuti and the Nitya Vibhuthi. Both belongs to emperuman and he has kept the leela vibhuti for his leelas. So now he created the jeevatmas to play their roles in the leela vibhuthi. He very well knows there are miseries in this world. So if he has to decide then the problem of the parent putting the child to difficulty will arise. Then the divine quality of the emperuman will be questioned. Let us explain it in this manner. A father gets for his kid 2 toys one an attractive game and other a knowledge kit. If the father says you should not play with the game but improve your knowledge with the other kit then the child will never listen. And when the father keeps in front of the child to choose anyone of it, it will naturally choose only the game. But does the child know the advantages and disadvantages of both? Absolutely no, it is totally ignorant. But just by attraction it selects the attractive game(the child may not even know to play the game). So now the father leaves it in its own way as it is a kid and preserves the knowledge kit for future. So when the child becomes a little big it realises the importance of knowledge. That is what even Emperuman does. Initially we are all kids without any knowledge. So we donot realise the importance of bhagavan or bhagavat kainkaryam. So he allows us to play in this world. Slowly as the father imparts knowledge to his child he teaches us the miseries of the world and pulls us towards him. Though a father is educated he sends his child to a school and a different teacher. Similarly emperuman teaches us through the acharyas and satsangams. When our acharyas show us the right path we trive for liberation and hence reach the lotus feet of emperuman. Nammazhvar was a born gyani. He was sent to this world by emperuman to change us. So he was not like the other jeevatmas. So he realised that everything is done only by the paramatma without any difficulty but that was not the case even with Arjuna who was so closed to Sri Krishna. He thought that he fought the war. In the above example both the game and the kit was got only by the father and the father is the person who he going to teach the child how to play the game and how to use the kit. But still he gives the child the time to get tuned to use the kit. Similarly though emperuman does everything he just gives us the time to become matured. Again he can grant us the knowledge in a second but then the leela vibhuti will not be interesting and it will be same as the Nitya Vibhuthi. Hope my clarification is convincing AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai Sumithra Varadarajan > > > > sumithra > > varadarajan To: > oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, > <sumivaradan@y > ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > ahoo.com>< > cc: > > Subject: > [ramanuja] Thirumaalai-2 > 15-05-02 09:32 > > PM > > Please respond > > to ramanuja > > > > > > > > > > Sri Parthasarathi thunai, > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > > " Mattrondrum Venda Maname Madhilarangar > Kattrinum meitha kazhalinai keezh- uttra > Thirumaalai paadum seer Thondaradipodi > Emperumaanai > Eppozhudum peesu" > > "Srimat Krishna samahvaya Namo yaamuna soonave > yetkadakshai kalakshyanam sulabha: Sridara: sadaa" > > Pranams, > > "Manisarukkai Padadana Pattu" - Emperuman undergoes > number of hardships for the sake of we Jeevatmas. > Let > us now see what all hardships the emperuman > undergoes. > In the last posting we said that PVP starts the > avadharikai with a question. Who a samsari is? Sri > Periya vaachan pillai asks such a question because > he > doesn't belong to that category and wants to keep > himself away from them. But all of us know who a > samsari is. "Asaare Samsare Vishaya visha > sangaakudiya:". The samsaris are always at the back > of some vishayam(matter). Whenever we call them to > bhagavat vishayam they have some way to say no. > They > consider many more things important and highly > urgent > to be done when it comes to bhagavat vishayam. But > saddhus like PVP considered the samsaaric pleasures > to > be equal to a poison which kills us little by > little. > Samsaaric pleasures are like a disease and only > medicine to this disease is Emperuman and bhagavat > vishayam. But leaving this medicine the samsaris > prefer to drink the poison. But can the Emperuman > who > is the father of all simply see his children drink > poison? So he by his apaara Kaarunyam tries to pull > us out of this. > > But if he says don't go at the back of samsaaric > pleasures instead fall under my feet I will protect > you then there is not even a single person to listen > to him. When a child eats mud though we condemn its > act it tends to eat but now without our knowledge. > So > the mother now lets it to eat and also keeps the > medicine necessary handy. When the child suffers > she > gives the medicine and teaches the child a lesson. > Similarly we jeevatmas will never listen to advices > so > the emperuman lets us in our own way and then > teaches > us a lesson. But unfortunately even after a lot of > miseries the vaasana of the jeevatmas still pulls > him > only towards the worldly pleasures and never turns > his > attention towards the bhagavan. > So as Nammazhvar says "Maari Maari pala pirappum > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! 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