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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00068 Oct 2004

 
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Adiyen
 
I wish to first Jayashree mami for the fine article.
 
But, dont we have numerous instances in the Bhagawatham descrbing clonig
in the rakshasas? How then is the Karna explained? Would any learned member 
care to throw some light on these.
 
Dasan/raghavan

bsundarrajansrivilliputtur <bsundarrajansrivilliputtur@xxxxxxxx> wrote:



shri: 

Shrimathi Jayashree saara..

Wonderful article. nice thinking in words. thanks for your 
moving mail.

  appaaDiYo !!!  Great Thinking 


Adiyane

T.K.Nambi  daasan




--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, jasn sn <jayasartn@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.
> 
> The first 27 sutras of the 3rd chapter of Brahma
> sutras which talk about the ascent and descent of the
> soul, shed some  light on cloning too. In his bhashya
> to the 1st sutra, (3-1-1), Ramanuja speaks about
> PanchAgni Vidhya which explains 5 oblations, in the
> forms of shraddha, soma, rain, food and seed. They 
> are offered in 5 fires (i.e., objects imagined to be
> fires for the sake of upasana) ?namely heavens,
> parjanya, earth, man and woman. The 5th oblation comes
> to be designated as man. 
> 
> Explanation for this is found in subsequent verses
> whereby it is said that the soul which descends to be
> born comes through water (rain), earth, plant food ,
> man and finally woman. In the first 4 stages the
> descent is quick and the soul is only connected to the
> `oblations' / fire and does not undergo or experience
> any karma. The process is irreversible and once the
> soul has entered the chain, it is headed to be entered
> into the womb. There is no question of not getting
> discarded mid way.
> 
> Verse 26 clearly states that till the soul remains
> with in the man's body, it just stays only `connected'
> to him and is not actually born. Only when it enters
> the womb of the woman, the soul is born. There is no
> mincing of words about this according to Brahma
> sutras.
> 
> In the case of cloning arising from human endeavour,
> thanks to advancement in science, the 5th oblation
> (mating) is missing. Verses 18 & 19 of the Brahma
> sutra do speak about this probability. Verse 19 tells
> about the cases of Drona, Drupadi and Dhrishtadhyumna
> as without 5th oblation. They have been recorded in
> Smritis.
> 
> There is another type also who are not born through
> the 5th oblation.
> Of the three types of souls, the lowest ones, namely,
> the evil-doers (the former two are the ones who go to
> the abode of gods and the abode of fathers) `do not
> ascend or descend from the world of moon'. (That is
> why the heavens never get filled up) ` It follows
> therefore that the 3rd place or evil-doers do not
> depend on the 5th oblation for the origination of a
> body. They are born irrespective of this oblation."
> (verse 18)
> 
> Verse 20 tells about other 3 types which are born
> without 5th oblation. They are the ones born of eggs,
> from living beings and those that germinate.
> 
> But one qualitative difference between these types and
> the cloning of today is that they have been part of
> the scheme of Creation of the Lord. No where in
> scriptures, are there references to empowering men (by
> artificial tools) to skip the 5th oblation. Even in
> the birth of Kauravas, the division of the embryo into
> 100 containers happen after the 5th oblation is
> completed. (Growth of embryo outside the womb is
> something mankind might someday achieve, if we go by
> this precedence but the same can not be said of
> deliberate skipping of the 5th oblation).
> 
> This (cloning) is also akin to man taking up creation
> in his hand, which is a prohibited act as in the case
> of Vishwamithra. There are 2 sides to this issue. One
> is that since the soul descends through 5 oblations,
> human cloning without 5th oblation is impossible. If
> at all man succeeds in getting it done, it would be
> that of the birth of evil-doers whose evil karma would
> doom them to bad conditions of living. In other words
> the creator-man would face further problems in keeping
> up his `creation' than would achieve any positive
> results. 
> 
> Another side of it is the very undesirability or
> unsustainability of cloning. The sudden death of the
> first animal clone (Dolly, the sheep) showing signs of
> sudden  aging reminds one of similar trends noticed in
> the created world of Vishwamithra.
> It is by hearsay (from elders) that whatever was
> created by Vishwamithra fell short in some aspect from
> the original world created by the Creator. For
> instance there is a variety of curry leaves
> (karivEppilai) known as `Vishwamithra karivEpilai,
> which would grow yellow with aging. Whereas the
> original karivEppilai does not grow yellow. It just
> whithers. This might just be a figment of imagination
> (I don't know for sure whether such a variety of
> karivEppilai ever existed. Can any one clarify?) But
> the point that must be noted is that our system of
> knowledge does not foresee the creation and
> sustainability of anything that is not  part of the
> scheme of Creation by Brahman. Human cloning is one
> such thing.
> 
> Regards,
> Jayasree saranathan.
> 
> 
> 
>             
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azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam



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