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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00124 Oct 2004

 
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                                                        Shri:
                                           Kaarimaaran thunai 


Dear Bhagavathaas
   
Pranaams.

Adiyaen is posing a question to find out the solutions from Our 
Vaishnavaa philosophy.

Please apologise me if these words are written to hurt any 
individuals/groups 
feelings. !!! It was not intended for that purpose. 

This is my long streching(stressing) un-answerable question. ??? 

As per bhagavad gita and our Kaari-maara-piraan , we indulge in 
the services of the lord, Worship Nothing but him ,Thinking of him 
always,singing the thiuvaaimozhi to reach Parama-padam(or Moksham) 
one day. Very Good !!! ...  Nice.... 

Supporting Quotes:  
***********************
         Aluvan-Thozhuvan-Aadi-Kaan-pan Paadi-alarruvan.....
         Naadeer Naal Naalthorum...vaadaa Malar Kondu.......
         Thaal-kal Thalaiyil vanangi Naal kadalai kazhiminaey !!! 
                                                                -  
Kaari Maaran 

But this is for a IDEAL CASE. 

In most circumstances 50 % of people die pre-maturely in one way or 
the 
other way before they reach old age. such as a natural disaster due 
to 
Mother Nature , Accidents,  Violence, un-caused violence ,uncaused 
death ,disease, suicides (due to  wealth,health,passion or  any 
other 
reasons ) etc. What is the status of these souls ? 

Will they get re-birth ? or They still attain moksham. 
 
   Our Vishnu-chittar wrote : 

    Yeippu Yennai Vanthu-Naliyum-pothu 
         Aangethu Naan-Unnai Ninaikka Mattaen..
    Appo-thaikku- Ippo-they Solli Vaithaen
        Arangath-aravanai-Palli-Yaanae!!

  we get moksham because we sing the above verse before 
  our sudden death. 

  Is this the way it works. ?

 Or 
 
 (Because) We Once sang/heared vishnu sahasranaamam fully  through 
 our ears.....  That itself will do the needed Moksham. 
Ehi...eeehi ...eehi...  !!!

   Kannan Kalal-inai Nannum Manam-udaiyeer
   Yennum thirunaamam thinnam Naara-na-mey !!!  
                                     => Thereby points to 
Sahasranaamam.
                                                     -    Kaarimaaran

 Konjam -adjust panni... (paarthu -pottu -kudunga...  like  ordinary 
people 
 speak in Market & grocery Store. )   
                -> will we get moksham  like this way ?? 


I saw cases where they perform rituals as per hindu saastra , after 
a man dies
in Raameswaram, Kaasi , Gangai etc..  thinking that the soul will 
reach moksham..
by paying to  Brahmin-Priest over there.  Thereby 
overriding/ignoring the 
Karma-Vinai-Payan.

Karma-vinai(deeds) can not be overridden, even for Kaliyan (Thiru-
mangai-mannan )
(Almighty blessed soul - Mayarvara mathinalam...), who got killed... 
to get 
moksham.. and not achieved a  smooth salvation like Vishnu-chittar
(Peri-Aazhwar) 

Reason is obvious : Our Almighty wanted to follow the rules
(legislation) 
as per Vedas. (Isho-Upanishad thunders this point.  about the fate 
of these 
soul-killers. ! )     

What is the case of abortion doing women due to circumstances (any 
reason , 
in one way or  the other way - they are also Soul - 
Killers !!! ) ?.   Are they set 
to go to hell ?  especially in India  with 102+ crores of people. it 
looks 
fine to me to  do abortion in  the cause of saving the Mother earth 
(or Nature) !!! 
there by saving the agricultural output such as grains , food , 
space,
green mother nature,  live-stocks, any other carni,herbi,omnivorous  
beings(or animals) providing more space for earth's nature !!!

Why i am telling all these obnoxious stories ?

I used to watch television occasionally (without involving by 
senses..) .., 
the channels like TLC , OLN,Discovery (TCL -> Learning Channel 
OLN -> ... Life Network.. [may be ] , )   !!!

They use to show a ghost simulation/feeling/experience.  this is 
like a serial
shown ... non-stop .. every week !!! crossed more than 100's of  
devil episodes 
covering in devils of north america alone.

Some of the stories  are very horrific as they screen like hearing 
from 
a live-witness !!! (not like our india where every pulia maram 
(Tamarind tree) is considered a Devil !!! and lot of devil stories 
spin around that Tree !!! 

[ Tamarind tree is the most Holy-tree , as it sheltered kaari-
maaran , 
therfore most  worshippable like Tulasi plant  ! ] 

Cause of all these stories lies in a flash-back & obvious ! 
(there was a murder / accidental cause of death of one or more 
people !!!   ).  
(IMPACT) RESULT >>>> The so-called soul is wandering around that 
place. !!!

One Interesting story is Hawaaii Island's volcanic remains. (of lava 
stones  )
U.S postal service in Hawaai gets hundreds of these stones in 
(baskets) 
asking(requesting)  them  to place these stones back in Lava spilled 
mountains. !!!

This is due to the attractions of these LAVA stones and visitors 
from all over the 
world wanted to take a slice to their home (like devotees visiting 
Thirumala 
will definitely get Laddu on their way  return !!!)  and they 
observed a horrific 
life , resulting in the loss of their family persons life,jobs, 
house etc etcc...... 
and they concluded that it is due to the LAVA STONEs !!! . ( which 
volcano 
once buried a young women !!! and the continous bad,unwanted 
happenings are 
due to the curse of that buried woman towards those who takes 
these LAVA stones !!! )

These stories imply that souls are living even after the death of a 
body(life) !! and not taking a  another life. Our  bhagavad gita (or 
almighty) 
does not speak of im-matured(pre-matured) souls !!  in other words , 
these souls are not liberated souls !! although they are subtle in 
nature, 
(Anur-bhrugat...krisas-sthoo-lo .. sahasranaamam) 

    Onrum Unara-laagaathu Unarn-thum Melum-Kaan-pathu-arithu 
                                                                   -
   Kaari maaran !


How our almighty will consider the souls that get perished/died but 
of 
good nature. for example one of our bhagavathaas die in a bus,car, 
train accident (say like sep 11,2001). Are they set to live like a 
devil  ?...,
until the end of their life time and wait for almighty's  approval 
to step 
into parama-padam  ??  and thereafter they experience the 
sool-visum pani-mukil... Is it the way it works ????

How our almighty will consider the souls living in this mundane 
world where bad-karmaas are un-avoidable. everyone living in this 
earth is involved in a sin  knowingly and un-knowingly !!
although they are  shri-vaishnavaas with saatvic nature ???

Most importantly Please clarify your views on devils(Ghosts)  
as per our siddaantham !!!  Are they real ? if they are real , 
how they have the strength of  lifting a object as per T.V ? 
whereas the soul is subtlest of subtlest(like Atom - Anu)  as 
per our lord, kaarimaaran and the nature of soul itself !  

Vaasaga thosam santhavyaha

Please explain with reference to our sampradaayam

Adiyaen

  Kaari-maara-piraan daasan









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