Wonderful! Dasohams. Vishnu --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "pataps" <pataps@xxxx> wrote: > srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha > > Dear srI vishNu: > > I was not planning on getting into this interesting thread, but > something you say below prompted me to post this (so, please forgive > me if there is some repetition of ideas from earlier posts). Also, > this is a rather important point that is well delineated in > mumukshuppaDi. > > --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Vishnu" <vsmvishnu@xxxx> wrote: > > Dear Sriman Venkatesan, > > > > I agree with Sriman Padmanabhan on this. > > > > The mUlam quoted by Smt Sheela also does not have any mention of > > SEshatvam specifically. > ............................. > > Here it is important to note that all the objects mentioned are > > non-sentient, indicating pAratantryam without any ahankAram. Thus > > SEsha has complete SEshatvam. > > > > Then how do we interpret sUtra 92? > > > Well, the mUlam does say it explicitly (starting with sutram No. 86 ) > though you will need swAmy maNavALa mAmunikaL's vyAkhyAnam for No. > 92 to understand it (aside: there can never be any ambiguity in the > words of our pUrvAchAryas; such confusion is usually a manifestation > of our inability to comprehend:-). > > Here is the vyAkhyAnam from Swamy vishada vAk shikAmaNi: > > thanakkEyAga enRathai upapAdikkirAr (this is tirumantra prakaraNam, > and we are talking about the true meaning of namaha) - meaning, in > the previous sutram (91), swAmy PL says > > Eeshwaran thanakkEyAyirukkum, achitthu piRarRkEyAyirukkum, > Atma tanakkum piRakkum bothuvAyirukkumenRu muRpaTTaninaivu, > agnyananRikkE > > ******tanakkEyAga enaikkoLLavENum engirathu namassAl***** > > (vyAkhyAnam - just the last part which is the essential message of > this sUtram - 'swAtantramE swaroopamAna Eeswaran swArtha paranAy > irukkum; chaitanyarahitamAkaiyAlE tanakkengaikku yOgyatai inRikkE > pAratantra swaroopAmAyirukkum achitthu parArthamAy irukkum; > chaturthiyil sonna sEshatvathaiyum, makArathil sonna > gnyAtrutvathaiyumuDaiyanAna Atma, gnyAtrutva balathAlE > swArthathaikkum, *sEshatva* balaththAlE parArthataikkum > pothuvAyirukkumenRu namassukku poorva padathiRpiRantha > prathipaththi; appaDianRikkE, (this is important) parArthathai > EkavEshamAna achithuppOlE *thanakkEyAgavenaikkOLLumeethE* > engirapaDiyE aththalaikkE rasamAmpaDi viniyOgam koLLa vENum > enRapEkshikkiRathu innamassAlE engai) > > swAmy mamunikaL says that pArathanthryam is the true manifest > expression for sEshatvam; If we understand our sEshatvam, then we > exist as parathantras; parArthathai Eka vEshamAna achitthuppOlE - a > desired manifestation of our sEshatvam finds its complete expression > in 'achitvat pAratantryam' - paDIyAykkidandhu un pavaLa vAy kANbEne - > meaning, pAratantryam (and His swaroopam as sEshi) supersedes a > perceived conflict stemming from gnyAtrutvam - awareness. > > Now, let us look at No. 92: > > bhOga dashaiyil Eeswaran azhikkumpOthu nOkkavENum enRu > azhiyAthozhigai (this is very subtle, so we need the vyAkhyAnam) > > periya jeeyar's vyAkhyAnam (just the relevant part): > > thannODE kalandu parimArum dashaiyil bhOktAvAna Eeswaran > *ATkoLvAnoththennu yiruNDA mAyan* engirapaDiyE > aDimaikkoLvAraippOlE pugundhu > than vyAmOhaththAlE thAzh ninRu parimAri iththalaiyil > sEshathvaththai azhikkumpOdhu > 'nam sEshatvaththai nAm nOkka vENum' > enRu naichchyam bhAvithirAyththu > avan bhOgaththai azhiyAthozhigai yengai > > achitvat pAaratantryam when we internalize sEshatvam to the point > that His enjoyment supersedes everything we are; in which case, ** > avan bhOgaththai azhiyAthozhigai**, His enjoyment is supreme, and we > should show pArathantryam that is quintessential sEshatvam, we will > be His master in His servitude, for His enjoyment, not for one > moment should we allow our naicchyam to leave our awareness. > > Clearly, it is very difficult to translate the magnificent phrasing > of swAmy maNavALa mAmunikaL; but the idea is very clear, that > pAratantryam is the true representation of sEshatvam. > > aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > > sridhar > > Note: I am sure that my translation is filled with errors and > transgressions for which I ask for forgiveness from the learned > bhAgavathas; the only way to understand these ideas is to learn from > an Acharya (or through kAlakshEpams at the feet of erudite > bhAgavathas such as srI ES BhoovarAhan Swamy or srI velukkudi > krishnan swamy); the written english medium is grossly inadequate in > communicating the subtlety of phrasing and profundity of ideas > replete in the words of our poorvAchAryas. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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